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[InfinitePaths]

 It is so wierd that in DA2 Merill and Fenris showed no real indication that their sexuality is bisexual if they did not romance Hawke.It is so weird that Merill only has a sexual interest in female hawke and no other female charather in the enitre game.if you are going to make all companions have a bisexual sexuallity make them express it,their sexuallity is a part of their personallity.Also I think only Isabella had special dialouge with Fem Hawke,saying stuff like girly fun etc... plus she already said that she is BI,this makes her relationship with a femHawke seem real,consistent and just great.Merill treats Fem Hawke like male Hawke,she also never said that she has an interest in girls,making it so strange and doesn't feel right.

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 20 mars 2013 - 12:26 .

[rolson00]

not everyone goes around screaming IM BI! IM BI! they may even have been (to use the American phase) bi curious and just keep it to themselves. heck even your friends could be and they keep it to themselves, a friend and my sister came out and we had no idea.

[InfinitePaths]

rolson00 wrote...

not everyone goes around screaming IM BI! IM BI! they may even have been (to use the American phase) bi curious and just keep it to themselves. heck even your friends could be and they keep it to themselves, a friend and my sister came out and we had no idea.

It's like you say not everyone is screaming I'm Straight I'm Straight.Of course not,and I'm sure grown up companions aren't closeted and then just have sex with Hawke with no special dialouge.I'm saying that is weird that these ''BI'' companions show no indication whatsoever of their sexuallity.

[Quicksilver26]

just let it go man just let it go

[Knight of Dane]

Eh, I wasn't really bothered by it in DA2.

Even so, I don't think Merrill shows any actual sexual interest in anyone, just dirty joking to Carver and with Isabela and Varric.
In my head Merrill is straight with mHawke and homosexual with fHawke.

I only really think Anders and Isabela can be assumed bisexual.
Or at least Anders can at the most, unromanced, be seen as bisexual to a male Hawke.

Fenris only shows interest in Isabela and Hawke as I recall.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 20 mars 2013 - 12:09 .

[New Display Name]

In order to be bisexual, you don't have to openly express your attraction. You just have to have it. No one complains about the "straight" love interests who don't indicate any interest in the opposite sex until you romance them.

As far as I know, Merrill at best has that comment about Qunari being nice to look at. So it's not as if she's expressing so much sexual interest in men either.

IMO, those compliments Fenris gives Hawke when recruited, even if Hawke himself doesn't flirt, seemed to imply more just heterosexual appreciation.

[sharkboy421]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

rolson00 wrote...

not everyone goes around screaming IM BI! IM BI! they may even have been (to use the American phase) bi curious and just keep it to themselves. heck even your friends could be and they keep it to themselves, a friend and my sister came out and we had no idea.

It's like you say not everyone is screaming I'm Straight I'm Straight.Of course not,and I'm sure grown up companions aren't closeted and then just have sex with Hawke with no special dialouge.I'm saying that is weird that these ''BI'' companions show no indication whatsoever of their sexuallity.

Why do they have to say anything?  Its a personal thing that really has no impact on the character's relationship with Hawke unless Hawke attempts a romantic relationship. 

[TheBlackAdder13]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 It is so wierd that in DA2 Merill and Fenris showed no real indication that their sexuality is bisexual if they did not romance Hawke.It is so weird that Merill only has a sexual interest in female hawke and no other female charather in the enitre game.if you are going to make all companions have a bisexual sexuallity make them express it,their sexuallity is a part of their personallity.Also I think only Isabella had special dialouge with Fem Hawke,saying stuff like girly fun etc... plus she already said that she is BI,this makes her relationship with a femHawke seem real,consistent and just great.Merill treats Fem Hawke like male Hawke,she also never said that she has an interest in girls,making it so strange and doesn't feel right.

Yeah, this is one of the things I have about the playersexual approach. It doesn't allow for actual, true portrayals of gay or bi LIs. At the same time, I understand their rationale for the playersexual approach from a resource allocation perspective and I think it's still important to recognize how far ahead of the field Bioware is than the rest of the industry when it comes to LGB inclusivness (and possibly even trans inclusiveness as a dev commented on the possiblity of a trans character in the DA universe). 

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Why do they have to say anything? ]unless[/color] Hawke attempts a romantic relationship.  

I don't really recall Fenris' situation but Merill makes remarks about men (male Hawke and the Qunari) but not about women. Since she remarks on one gender over the other, persumably she's not bi. She could be, but again, it just doesn't add teh same element of realism since she only remarks on the looks of men and it leaves the player with the impression that she was written as heterosexual. As I said above, the playersexual system is great for ensuring equal access to all same sex LIs (disregarding the fact that heteros got a hetero-exclusive LI) but not ideal in terms of writing and honestly portraying an exclusively gay LI. 

It would only seem to need special dialogue if you assume Thedans operate under a heteronormative mindset.

Thedas is heteronorminative. Arguably not as much so as our world but, for example, Leandra doesn't recognize a gay PC, insisting that she needs to find you a wife soon. Nobles expect everyone to be in opposite sex relationships to breed heirs. Similarly, the chantry seems to be rather heteronormative as indicated by the fact that Sebastian is hetero and can't be romanced by male PCs. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 20 mars 2013 - 12:16 .

[rolson00]

krul2k wrote...

how they normally kept in or somein m8?

well they just don't tell you for some people their sexuality is a very private matter not to mention going back to merril and feneris it could be that same genre romances very rarly happen in elvern culture

[InfinitePaths]

Knight of Dane I totally agree with you
Only Anders and Isabella showed that they really are bisexual and have an open sexuallity
With Fenris and Merill you just press the heart flirt dialogue option,they flirt with you and then you get a romance scene at ACT II,It doesn't feel like they have any interest in S/S relationships,therefore it feels bland and it is a worse experience than a straight romance or with Isabella or Anders.

[LPPrince]

I get it. You want there to be an indicator to a squadmate's sexuality instead of the squadmate just so happening to be attracted to the main character no matter the player's gender.

Yeah, I get it. I can accept that.

Doesn't have to be forced, just a line between squaddies once or twice that gets the point across prior to any romantic interest being shown to the PC.

Cause I'm all for bisexuality in games, along with hetero and homosexuality, but playersexuality is tired and old.

Edit- Oh, and to clarify, playersexuality is when the sexuality of a character is solely determined by the gender of the playable character and nothing else(Being straight because the PC is of the opposite gender, being gay if the PC is of the same gender).

In contrast to bisexuality, which Isabella is(no matter the gender of the PC Isabella is interested in both men and women and thats known to the player).

Anders is a prime example of playersexuality, with his interactions with his friend Karl, or "friend" Karl, the Tranquil Mage in one of the first Anders' related quests you do.

Modifié par LPPrince, 20 mars 2013 - 12:18 .

[InfinitePaths]

HJF4 wrote...

In order to be bisexual, you don't have to openly express your attraction. You just have to have it. No one complains about the "straight" love interests who don't indicate any interest in the opposite sex until you romance them.

As far as I know, Merrill at best has that comment about Qunari being nice to look at. So it's not as if she's expressing so much sexual interest in men either.

IMO, those compliments Fenris gives Hawke when recruited, even if Hawke himself doesn't flirt, seemed to imply more just heterosexual appreciation.

Merill had a crush on carver in fact ,to me it would make sense she had a crush on Isabella(Since she spends so much time with her) but nope.

[InfinitePaths]

Filament wrote...

It would only seem to need special dialogue if you assume Thedans operate under a heteronormative mindset.

Nope,I'm not thinking talks about acceptance or something like that.I'm thinking more of Isabella says to guy Hawke.I want your muscular body and to female let's have so girly fun.I'm talking about that.I'm also talking about companions showing their sexuallity outside of the romance with the protag.For example Merill could get a crush on Isabella or say how pretty female elves are,but she doesn't.She only has a crush on Carver and Male Qunari

[sharkboy421]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...
Yeah, this is one of the things I have about the playersexual approach. It doesn't allow for actual, true portrayals of gay or bi LIs. At the same time, I understand their rationale for the playersexual approach from a resource allocation perspective and I think it's still important to recognize how far ahead of the field Bioware is than the rest of the industry when it comes to LGB inclusivness (and possibly even trans inclusiveness as a dev commented on the possiblity of a trans character in the DA universe). 

Please forgive me as my question will probably offend but how would a true portrayal of a gay or bi LI differ from a straight LI? 

[rolson00]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

HJF4 wrote...

In order to be bisexual, you don't have to openly express your attraction. You just have to have it. No one complains about the "straight" love interests who don't indicate any interest in the opposite sex until you romance them.

As far as I know, Merrill at best has that comment about Qunari being nice to look at. So it's not as if she's expressing so much sexual interest in men either.

IMO, those compliments Fenris gives Hawke when recruited, even if Hawke himself doesn't flirt, seemed to imply more just heterosexual appreciation.

Merill had a crush on carver in fact ,to me it would make sense she had a crush on Isabella(Since she spends so much time with her) but nope.

if you play the dalish origin story she cared for the dalish warden as you see when your leaving the clan forever so it could be implied in the 1st one that shes BI

[Plaintiff]

David Gaider and others have said, multiple times, that Merrill and Fenris are not bisexual. They are gay or straight depending on what you, the player, want them to be. I call it Schrodinger's Kink. The cat is both gay and straight simultaneously, but once you open the box, its sexuality becomes fixed.

But heck, you can imagine Merrill and Fenris to be bisexual if you want, there's nothing to indicate that they are not bisexual.

[daaaav]

Look. There is no way that this topic can be discussed without serious inflammation. It really depends if a characters sexuality is an integral part of their character.

[New Display Name]

You note that Anders and Isabela display same sex attraction outside of Hawke, yet you criticize what they did with Merrill and Fenris. Why? Do all bisexual people have to be the same? Because with many bisexual people, they are not sexually open to begin with, end up with an opposite gender partner anyway, or are more attracted to the opposite gender. Some bisexual people will express open same sex attraction, some won't. They aren't all the same.

[Plaintiff]

sharkboy421 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...
Yeah, this is one of the things I have about the playersexual approach. It doesn't allow for actual, true portrayals of gay or bi LIs. At the same time, I understand their rationale for the playersexual approach from a resource allocation perspective and I think it's still important to recognize how far ahead of the field Bioware is than the rest of the industry when it comes to LGB inclusivness (and possibly even trans inclusiveness as a dev commented on the possiblity of a trans character in the DA universe). 

Please forgive me as my question will probably offend but how would a true portrayal of a gay or bi LI differ from a straight LI? 

Limper wrists.

[SerTabris]

I think it would be out of character for Merrill or Fenris to be "obviously" bisexual, as they seem more reserved (in very different ways, certainly, but both to some extent). Although you can actually show Fenris as bi in one game, I think - a male Hawke who starts romancing him but stops later in Act 2 should be able to, if it works the way I think it does. Mostly, though, I think that a lot of this perception is rooted in heteronormativity (that is, with no evidence on a character's sexuality, many people will think 'straight' instead of 'I don't know').

As for the trans inclusiveness mentioned in the last comment, I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think that their attempt in DA2 has some issues (mostly around some other characters' reactions), but I can't think of anyone else who has really tried, so I guess that puts them ahead by default.

[whykikyouwhy]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Knight of Dane I totally agree with you
Only Anders and Isabella showed that they really are bisexual and have an open sexuallity
With Fenris and Merill you just press the heart flirt dialogue option,they flirt with you and then you get a romance scene at ACT II,It doesn't feel like they have any interest in S/S relationships,therefore it feels bland and it is a worse experience than a straight romance or with Isabella or Anders.

As others have stated, not everyone feels the need to express their sexuality - to talk about that aspect of themselves or who they are attracted to. To turn something very private into a public matter.

Neither Fenris or Merrill are very forthcoming about all manner of things in their lives. Merrill might be a little more so, but even she doesn't always reveal how she truly feels about people. So to say that any blatant lack of S/S relationship interest makes their romances feel "bland" might be disservice both to the characters and how they written, and to people of the LGBT community. I don't find it fair to assume that anyone, gay or straight, should be especially vocal about anything in order for them to be considered somehow valid.

But that's just my opinion.