596 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Yeah, Dragon Age really needs a harem of seven potential female partners for the male protagonist, and two token gay "exclusives" who aren't even in the party proper. 

[InfinitePaths]

I think it would be best if they gave us 2 straight,1 bi and 2 gay romance options for each gender,but too much work.

[sharkboy421]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...
That's the thing though, a lot of playersexual LIs seem to have explicitly defined sexual orientations outside of their romance with the PC, like Merill. Party banter suggests that she's straight.

Fenris is in character yeah.  But for Merrill I can only think of one instance where she makes any sort of comment like that; when she comments the qunari are "easy on the eyes."  To me that is not enough to define a character's orientation.  She is right, the qunari are ascetically pleasing to look at.  So are most athletes.  Aaron Peirsol is a very attractive person.  I can comfortably say that as a straight male.  So to me Merrill's comment is just color commentary that doesn't add weight one way or the other.

I guess I just see all the LI (apart from Izzy) as the same character regardless of romance and I feel the game does a good job of leaving their orientation very murky. 

And the ME series is definitely worth playing.  Just set it on easy and enjoy the awesome characters and story Bioware created.

[TheBlackAdder13]

sharkboy421 wrote...

Fenris is in character yeah.  But for Merrill I can only think of one instance where she makes any sort of comment like that; when she comments the qunari are "easy on the eyes."  To me that is not enough to define a character's orientation.  She is right, the qunari are ascetically pleasing to look at.  So are most athletes.  Aaron Peirsol is a very attractive person.  I can comfortably say that as a straight male.  So to me Merrill's comment is just color commentary that doesn't add weight one way or the other.

In party batner in Act 1 (I think maybe with Bethany, weirdly enough -- or maybe Isabella?) she mentions that she finds a male Hawke attractive but I don't think she makes the same comment about a female Hawke. I remember it clearly because I remember thinking...well that was awkward. 

And, it's been a long ass time since I played it, but I seem to recall indications that she had a crush on Tamlen in the Dalish Origin -- but maybe I'm confusing that with my head canon. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 20 mars 2013 - 12:55 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

Think of it as Schrödinger's sexuality. The character isn't bi, straight or gay, they are undetermined until you observe their behaviour in your current instance of the game. At which point they become one of the above. (But only in that instance of the game)

[.shea.]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...
In party batner in Act 1 (I think maybe with Bethany, weirdly enough -- or maybe Isabella?) she mentions that she finds a male Hawke attractive but I don't think she makes the same comment about a female Hawke. I remember it clearly because I remember thinking...well that was awkward.

The banter is with Aveline and yes, she makes the same exact comment about female Hawke:

• Merrill: Why don't you arrest us, Aveline?
• Aveline: What?
• Merrill: We break the law. I'm pretty sure. There are laws for almost everything. You're not a bad guard, are you?
• Aveline: No!
• Merrill: That's good. Is it because you're fond of Hawke? I kind of am.
• Aveline: How very nice for you. Keep it to yourself.
• Merrill: I'd rather keep it with her/him.

And no, Merrill doesn't have a crush on Tamlen, female Dalish warden can however (if you choose so).

Modifié par Chouan, 20 mars 2013 - 01:03 .

[New Display Name]

If OP's point is that bisexual/"playersexual" characters usually only or mostly show interest in the opposite sex when not romanced, yea, that's a point.

[LPPrince]

Narrow Margin wrote...

(But only in that instance of the game)

Thats my problem with playersexuality.

I want more Cortez's and Traynor's- no matter the gender you pick, their sexuality won't change. Its not a big ball of wibbly wobbley timey relationshippy stuff. Its set in stone.

If you're playing FemShep and you flirt with Samantha, it can go somewhere.

If you're playing BroShep and you flirt with Samantha, she turns you down(which ends up being done hilariously), and romantically, it goes nowhere.

Thats what I'm for. Otherwise, at least to me, it feels like the character is kowtowing to the playable character.

Modifié par LPPrince, 20 mars 2013 - 01:05 .

[Neon Rising Winter]

LPPrince wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

(But only in that instance of the game)

Thats my problem with playersexuality.

I want more Cortez's and Traynor's- no matter the gender you pick, they will always be their sexuality. Its set in stone.

If you're playing FemShep and you flirt with Samantha, it can go somewhere.

If you're playing BroShep and you flirt with Samantha, she turns you down(which ends up being done hilariously), and romantically, it goes nowhere.

Thats what I'm for. Otherwise, at least to me, it feels like the character is kowtowing to the playable character.

I suspect it doesn't bother me as much because I see the fact that these characters are romancable by player characters of vastly different personalities, philosophies and actions. Their personality is already so fluid in accomodating these differences that my disbelief is already suspended. Making sexuality another thing that is player character dependant doesn't stand out especially for me.

I can see there are loses with this approach. The rejection options, a more nuanced response to other NPCs, but for me the gains in terms of player choice far outweigh these negatives. This is of course working from the assumption there aren't sufficient resources to create enough romances to allow both a reasonable level of choice for all players and specific sexuality.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 20 mars 2013 - 01:17 .

[Solmanian]

From the PC perspective, how is a companion being BI functionally different from playersexual? Do you expect to be privy to the parts of your companions sexual lives that doesn't involve the PC? That waaaay to voyeristic for me. If my companion start telling me about an orgy he had with a qunari stripper and a dwarven bussinessman, I'd be like "DUDE... TMI".

[Plaintiff]

Solmanian wrote...

From the PC perspective, how is a companion being BI functionally different from playersexual? Do you expect to be privy to the parts of your companions sexual lives that doesn't involve the PC? That waaaay to voyeristic for me. If my companion start telling me about an orgy he had with a qunari stripper and a dwarven bussinessman, I'd be like "DUDE... TMI".

But others might be like "Omit no detail, however small or filthy. Also, draw pictures."

[BlueMagitek]

How would you go about showing it? I mean, being a sort of playgirl and playboy is in Isabella's and Zevran's characters, and while an occasional comment may come up about relationships, I'd rather not have to listen to every character gushing about both genders (or either gender, calm down your attack dogs). And it wouldn't suit every character for that anyway.

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 20 mars 2013 - 01:21 .

[syllogi]

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Personally, I'd like to see an "openly" bisexual character (i.e; canonically shows interest in both men and women whether or not romanced) who doesn't fit a stereotypical mold of promiscuity and lack of interest in monogamy or long term relationships (see: people pointing to Zevran and Isabela and saying "it makes sense that they're bisexual" because of their sexual mores.)

Doesn't Leliana fit this bill?

Leliana is a rogue, like Zevran and Isabela, and previously seduced both men and women for the purpose of stealing secrets.  Her previous lover was evil and betrayed both her and the future Divine.  So, while she's generally not used as an example of "bisexuality makes sense for this character because they're promiscuous"  by those who are stereotyping, I still would say that her backstory falls a little too close to what many people seem to associate with Zevran and Isabela's views on sexuality, at least superficially.

[Fiacre]

Personally, I find the idea that a character has to explicitly show interest in both sexes for them to be considered a "true bisexual" somewhat uncomfortable and... offensive.

A *lot* of bi/pansexuals don't do that, and their sexualities aren't any less valid simply because they don't overtly show them. A lot also have preferences -- it's perfectly possible, for example, that Merrill is bisexual, but has a preference for men and is more likely to indicate attraction to them as a result.That doesn't invalidate her sexuality -- she can still be attracted to females, still be *romantically* attracted to females -- and it doesn't invalidate her relationship with a female Hawke. It simply means she has a preference.

To be bi/pan, you don't have to go around and talk about who you're attracted to just to prove to others that your bi/pan. I don't. I've been friends with people for years, and yet have never talked with them about my sexuality. It doesn't make me any less pansexual. It doesn't make any potential character not bi/pan. There's no set of behaviour that come with sexuality, no rule that you must indicate that you're interested in two genders just to be considered bisexual. Saying there has to be is *not* helping representation.

[Neon Rising Winter]

krul2k wrote...
They will never win no matter what they give they lose, none of you will ever be happy, an this is why i wonder why they even bother to put them in in the first place an dont just concentrate on the game

That would be the game that includes romancable NPCs as one of the gameplay elements? I think we're doing a perfectly good job concentrating on that!

[TheBlackAdder13]

krul2k wrote...

Honestly you know if they have say 6 companions 3 men an 3 woman an they have 2 straight, 2 gay an 2 bi 1 of each orientation per gender, the next arguments going to be but the straight ones are better looking than the bi, or the gay ones have more dialogue, or the bi ones get more screen time.

They will never win no matter what they give they lose, none of you will ever be happy, an this is why i wonder why they even bother to put them in in the first place an dont just concentrate on the game

I actually agree with this. I wouldn't be terribly bothered by a game with no LIs. In fact, my PC having an LI in every DA installment seems a bet improbable/unrealistic (but of course I'll take it since it's there and I wouldn't wanna miss out on content except for RP reasons). If they only foucsed on LIs every other game, or every few games, I honestly wouldn't mind.  

ETA: I've added a sig in accordance. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 20 mars 2013 - 01:41 .

[SongstressKitsune]

Frankly, the playersexuality didn't bother me at all and it didn't seem incongruous. Some of the things people get upset about really surprise me.

I'm perfectly content with the romances and rather happy that the trend of "playersexual" LIs is going to continue into Inquisition.

[LPPrince]

SongstressKitsune wrote...

and rather happy that the trend of "playersexual" LIs is going to continue into Inquisition.

Do we know that for a certainty?

[TheBlackAdder13]

LPPrince wrote...

SongstressKitsune wrote...

and rather happy that the trend of "playersexual" LIs is going to continue into Inquisition.

Do we know that for a certainty?

The devs have said they're happy with the system and in previous discussions stated that a system with individualized sexual orientations for LIs isn't feasible from a resource angle so it's a safe extrapolation to make. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 20 mars 2013 - 01:55 .

[llandwynwyn]

What really disappointed was how they handled Anders' boyfriend. He talks freely about Karl with male Hawkes, but if you're female he doesn't say anything at all. Why? It makes no sense.

[sandalisthemaker]

I don't feel like the LI's *have* to have a defined sexuality.  They don't have to announce to the world that they are attracted to both genders. If they are of the opposite sex to your character, then they are in a heterosexual relationship with your character. If they are the same sex, then they are in a homosexual relationship. You can head cannon them to be whatever you want them to be, and I am perfectly content with this.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 20 mars 2013 - 01:50 .

[Lenimph]

llandwynwyn wrote...

What really disappointed was how they handled Anders' boyfriend. He talks freely about Karl with male Hawkes, but if you're female he doesn't say anything at all. Why? It makes no sense.

Ehh I never told my ex boyfriend about the girl  I kissed and had romantic feelings about before I met him... 

[TheBlackAdder13]

Lenimph wrote...

llandwynwyn wrote...

What really disappointed was how they handled Anders' boyfriend. He talks freely about Karl with male Hawkes, but if you're female he doesn't say anything at all. Why? It makes no sense.

Ehh I never told my ex boyfriend about the girl  I kissed and had romantic feelings about before I met him... 

Persumably, you also didn't try to rescue her only to find that she had had a lobotomy and then procced to kill her. 

Plus, this conversation with Anders happens before any sort of romantic context starts, so he should have told a female PC about his relationship with Karl as well.