596 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

This seems to be the one topic that pop up consistently, with the same recycled arguments. It's just repetitive at this point.

[InfinitePaths]

BlueMagitek wrote...

How would you go about showing it? I mean, being a sort of playgirl and playboy is in Isabella's and Zevran's characters, and while an occasional comment may come up about relationships, I'd rather not have to listen to every character gushing about both genders (or either gender, calm down your attack dogs). And it wouldn't suit every character for that anyway.

That is the exact reason why I don't want every companion to be BI.But better BI than playersexual

And for those who say Merill becomes gay if you romance her with a female.Nope
She stills has a crush on Carver,likes the Qunari and what not.So she is straight but likes Fem Hawke
Riiighhhhtttt.
It is also strange that both non-romance companions are straight
I don't think Bioware has the guts to put an openly gay companion,romancable or non romancable.

[Fiacre]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

How would you go about showing it? I mean, being a sort of playgirl and playboy is in Isabella's and Zevran's characters, and while an occasional comment may come up about relationships, I'd rather not have to listen to every character gushing about both genders (or either gender, calm down your attack dogs). And it wouldn't suit every character for that anyway.

That is the exact reason why I don't want every companion to be BI.But better BI than playersexual

And for those who say Merill becomes gay if you romance her with a female.Nope
She stills has a crush on Carver,likes the Qunari and what not.So she is straight but likes Fem Hawke
Riiighhhhtttt.
It is also strange that both non-romance companions are straight
I don't think Bioware has the guts to put an openly gay companion,romancable or non romancable.

Merrill doesn't have a crush on Carver, Carver has a crush on her and she occasionally teases him about it. And saying that the Qunari are pleasing to the eye doesn't mean she's sexually attracted to them -- though it *can* mean that.

And even so, yes, actually that is perfectly plausible scenario, because sexuality can, in fact, be fluid for people, as has been discissed in this thread. There's also the fact that some people don't talk about their sexuality openly and make it clear. And that some people have preferences.  As I said, Merrill could have a prefernce for men -- that doesn't mean that she isn't and can't be also attracted to women. Saying that people attracted to more than one gender can't have a preference for one is, frankly, ridiculous.

[LTD]

I wish there were little more threads about sexual orientation of NPCs.

Modifié par LTD, 20 mars 2013 - 12:16 .

[InfinitePaths]

Fiacre wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

How would you go about showing it? I mean, being a sort of playgirl and playboy is in Isabella's and Zevran's characters, and while an occasional comment may come up about relationships, I'd rather not have to listen to every character gushing about both genders (or either gender, calm down your attack dogs). And it wouldn't suit every character for that anyway.

That is the exact reason why I don't want every companion to be BI.But better BI than playersexual

And for those who say Merill becomes gay if you romance her with a female.Nope
She stills has a crush on Carver,likes the Qunari and what not.So she is straight but likes Fem Hawke
Riiighhhhtttt.
It is also strange that both non-romance companions are straight
I don't think Bioware has the guts to put an openly gay companion,romancable or non romancable.

Merrill doesn't have a crush on Carver, Carver has a crush on her and she occasionally teases him about it. And saying that the Qunari are pleasing to the eye doesn't mean she's sexually attracted to them -- though it *can* mean that.

And even so, yes, actually that is perfectly plausible scenario, because sexuality can, in fact, be fluid for people, as has been discissed in this thread. There's also the fact that some people don't talk about their sexuality openly and make it clear. And that some people have preferences.  As I said, Merrill could have a prefernce for men -- that doesn't mean that she isn't and can't be also attracted to women. Saying that people attracted to more than one gender can't have a preference for one is, frankly, ridiculous.

Merill ceirtanly has some chemistry with Carver,in MoTA too,you can't deny it
About the preferences:Isn't it weird that every BI charather in game has either equal preference or preference towards opposite sex,never S/S.By your logic what Bioware prefers straight relationships and made Bi charathers prefer the opposite sex.

[Fiacre]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Fiacre wrote...

Merrill doesn't have a crush on Carver, Carver has a crush on her and she occasionally teases him about it. And saying that the Qunari are pleasing to the eye doesn't mean she's sexually attracted to them -- though it *can* mean that.

And even so, yes, actually that is perfectly plausible scenario, because sexuality can, in fact, be fluid for people, as has been discissed in this thread. There's also the fact that some people don't talk about their sexuality openly and make it clear. And that some people have preferences.  As I said, Merrill could have a prefernce for men -- that doesn't mean that she isn't and can't be also attracted to women. Saying that people attracted to more than one gender can't have a preference for one is, frankly, ridiculous.

Merill ceirtanly has some chemistry with Carver,in MoTA too,you can't deny it
About the preferences:Isn't it weird that every BI charather in game has either equal preference or preference towards opposite sex,never S/S.By your logic what Bioware prefers straight relationships and made Bi charathers prefer the opposite sex.

Like I said, she teases him, but nothing that inidicates that she's actually into him -- as far as I know you'll get the smae dialogue during the scene where they're looking for you even if you romanced her.

We don't know Fenris' preference, though IIRC he does flirt with male Hakwe unprompted during his recruiting conversation. He starts something with Isabela if both are left unromanced, yes, but that's not really indicative of preference, because really -- is there anyone else in the party you see him get along with well enough for a relationship?

And Leliana seems to prefer females, considering that she'll go out of her way to test a fem!Warden's interest, but a male one will have to initiate things himself by flirting with her (early on, too, so the romance with a male character is harder to start).

Incidentally, do we know what Isabela and Anders prefer? I have some vague recollection of Zev preferring women, but I'll admit, that might be me mixing things up with some fanfic I've read. I don't remember Isabela or Anders stating anything, though.

[BeatoSama]

Zevran says to a fem!Warden (don't know about the male one) that he believes he prefers women.

Karl was Anders first S/S relationship (I think I remember saying something like that at least) so he may not be experienced enough to figure out if he has a preference at all, those things can take time to figure out.

[Pcmag1]

 In 2007, an article in the 'Health' section of The New York Times[/i] stated that "1.5 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of American men identify themselves [as] bisexual."
Chance of 5/8 + 6/8 (We are not sure about Bethany/Carver, Varic, Sebastian and Aveline seems to be hetero) characters being bisexual is according to theory of Binominal distribution 5.64x10^-8 (0.00000564%). 

But for once, I really didnt mind. Perhaps PC is jsut so damn sexually atractive he can "turn" you just by smiling at you. 

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 It is so wierd that in DA2 Merill and Fenris showed no real indication that their sexuality is bisexual if they did not romance Hawke.It is so weird that Merill only has a sexual interest in female hawke and no other female charather in the enitre game.if you are going to make all companions have a bisexual sexuallity make them express it,their sexuallity is a part of their personallity.Also I think only Isabella had special dialouge with Fem Hawke,saying stuff like girly fun etc... plus she already said that she is BI,this makes her relationship with a femHawke seem real,consistent and just great.Merill treats Fem Hawke like male Hawke,she also never said that she has an interest in girls,making it so strange and doesn't feel right.

The issues you have with Merrill and Fenris are, for the most part, precisely what I like about them as LIs. Just because Isabela is polyamorous, canonically bisexual, and loud and proud of it, doesn't mean that every LI needs to be. I like romanceable characters who aren't immediately ready to tell you what they like or their kinks or sexual escapades or that you are a handsome man or beautiful woman (such as the case may be). When you throw them in the mix with more flirtatious characters, it adds to the variety. I do however agree that if the romance is already in progress, characters, even shy ones like Merrill, should open up a little bit to the protagonist about their sexual orientation by way of dialogue that is specific to the protagonist's gender (e.g. "I've always liked other girls, but such things are forbidden among my people" IF female protagonist is romancing another woman).

As for Merrill in particular, the Dalish aren't big on pre-marital sex or romance (remember DA:O). They hold to strict traditions and customs when it comes to things like courtship; even giving a gift to someone you're attracted to is considered inappropriate. I'm not sure what Dalish politics are on homosexuality, but I get the distinct impression that even if Merrill had romantic feelings for a man or another woman, she wouldn't have expressed them or acted upon them.

[Knight of Dane]

It is suggested that Isabela has a more emotional bond to females.

If you go through MOtA with her romanced with both genders, when you are about to exit the caves and have to decide on helping Tallis or not you can flirt with her.
Isabela's female response: Linky
Male response: Linky

[Tootles FTW]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 It is so wierd that in DA2 Merill and Fenris showed no real indication that their sexuality is bisexual if they did not romance Hawke.It is so weird that Merill only has a sexual interest in female hawke and no other female charather in the enitre game.if you are going to make all companions have a bisexual sexuallity make them express it,their sexuallity is a part of their personallity.Also I think only Isabella had special dialouge with Fem Hawke,saying stuff like girly fun etc... plus she already said that she is BI,this makes her relationship with a femHawke seem real,consistent and just great.Merill treats Fem Hawke like male Hawke,she also never said that she has an interest in girls,making it so strange and doesn't feel right.

Some people talk about their sexuality, others don't.  Merrill and Fenris, I think, wouldn't go out of their way to talk about private matters.  But if left unromanced Fenris and Isabela have sex (and mention it in party banter), and Merrill and Carver (though more on Carver's end) have a flirtation.  I also think Merrill and Isabela are rather suggestive, too, but that may just be my opinion. 

Why does someone have to state if they are interested in girls/guys pre-coitus?  If they're having sex with you I would think it's pretty obvious.

All in all I prefer player-sexual companions, but I have no problem if they talk about past dalliances...to a point.  I'm tired of the whole "dead wife/lover" thing Bioware is fond of shackling to their male NPCs.

[Fiacre]

Pcmag1 wrote...

 In 2007, an article in the 'Health' section of The New York Times[/i] stated that "1.5 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of American men identify themselves [as] bisexual."
Chance of 5/8 + 6/8 (We are not sure about Bethany/Carver, Varic, Sebastian and Aveline seems to be hetero) characters being bisexual is according to theory of Binominal distribution 5.64x10^-8 (0.00000564%). 

But for once, I really didnt mind. Perhaps PC is jsut so damn sexually atractive he can "turn" you just by smiling at you. 

I might not be American, but I can only repeat what I said in a topic dedicated to this: There were four other students I consider myself to have had extensive contact with during the last semester -- one whose sexuality I don't know, one who identifies as heterosexual, two who identify as bisexual, and then there's me who identifies as pan. Meaning, at least three out of five who are attracted to more than one gender. Hawke having (at least) four bisexual friends seems perfectly plausible.

Knight of Dane wrote...

It is suggested that Isabela has a more emotional bond to females.

If
you go through MOtA with her romanced with both genders, when you are
about to exit the caves and have to decide on helping Tallis or not you
can flirt with her.
Isabela's female response: Linky
Male response: Linky

Oh, that's very interesting. Thanks for the links

[Rawgrim]

I`d like a mix of gays, straights and bis. Player sexuality, however, is pretty damn immersion breaking.

[Knight of Dane]

Fiacre wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

 In 2007, an article in the 'Health' section of The New York Times[/i] stated that "1.5 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of American men identify themselves [as] bisexual."
Chance of 5/8 + 6/8 (We are not sure about Bethany/Carver, Varic, Sebastian and Aveline seems to be hetero) characters being bisexual is according to theory of Binominal distribution 5.64x10^-8 (0.00000564%). 

But for once, I really didnt mind. Perhaps PC is jsut so damn sexually atractive he can "turn" you just by smiling at you. 

I might not be American, but I can only repeat what I said in a topic dedicated to this: There were four other students I consider myself to have had extensive contact with during the last semester -- one whose sexuality I don't know, one who identifies as heterosexual, two who identify as bisexual, and then there's me who identifies as pan. Meaning, at least three out of five who are attracted to more than one gender. Hawke having (at least) four bisexual friends seems perfectly plausible.

Knight of Dane wrote...

It is suggested that Isabela has a more emotional bond to females.

If
you go through MOtA with her romanced with both genders, when you are
about to exit the caves and have to decide on helping Tallis or not you
can flirt with her.
Isabela's female response: Linky
Male response: Linky

Oh, that's very interesting. Thanks for the links

Sure thing m8!

[Harle Cerulean]

Pcmag1 wrote...

 In 2007, an article in the 'Health' section of The New York Times[/i] stated that "1.5 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of American men identify themselves [as] bisexual."
Chance of 5/8 + 6/8 (We are not sure about Bethany/Carver, Varic, Sebastian and Aveline seems to be hetero) characters being bisexual is according to theory of Binominal distribution 5.64x10^-8 (0.00000564%). 

But for once, I really didnt mind. Perhaps PC is jsut so damn sexually atractive he can "turn" you just by smiling at you. 

First, there have been several studies, and each one comes up with a different percentage - but either way, there is a huge difference between the number you're presenting which is people who identify as bisexual, which is to say people like me who say "I am bisexual," and people who feel or have felt at some point sexual attraction to both males and females.  There are plenty of the latter who are not the former, for various reasons; some folk identify a pansexual, others simply identify as queer, and plenty identify as either straight or gay despite being capable of attraction to the same or opposite sex respectively.

An old friend of mine identifies as gay even though he's attracted to both men and women, because it's easier for him to be accepted by the gay community that way.  There's a lot of social pressure to "pick one" from straight and gay folks alike that can cause people who might otherwise identify as bisexual to claim another identity.  There's all sorts of baggage attached to identifying as bisexual.  People assume you're promiscuous, that you're incapable of fidelity, plenty of stereotypes that are just easier to avoid by going with a different identity.

In short, how many people identify as bisexual is a poor representation of how many people are capable of feeling attraction for more than one sex.

It's particularly inapplicable to Thedas, where we have never once seen our labels applied.  No one talks about being straight, being gay, being bi.  On the rare occasions someone does talk about having a preference, it's not in terms of our customary labels - Zevran says he prefers women, but he clearly is also attracted to men.  He doesn't say he's "straight-leaning bi," as he would likely be described in our society.  Anders says he doesn't see a point in restricting who you love by their body.  He's what we'd call pansexual, but he doesn't call himself that.  

Even leaving aside whether or not Thedas should for some reason correspond percentage-wise to ours, Thedas doesn't use our labels and identifications, so talking about what people identify as in our world?  Means exactly jack in Thedas.

[Renmiri1]

 I'll just repost this

Renmiri1 wrote...

- Dragons ? Yup
- Magic ? Yup
- Half dead beasts (darkspawn) ? Yup
- Monsters ? Yup
- Equal representations of all genders ? YOU CAN'T DO THAT, IT IS NOT REALISTIC!

This is getting soooo old -.-

Groans 

[BeatoSama]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

 In
2007, an article in the 'Health' section of The New York
Times[/i] stated that "1.5 percent of American women and 1.7 percent of
American men identify themselves [as] bisexual."
Chance of 5/8 + 6/8
(We are not sure about Bethany/Carver, Varic, Sebastian and Aveline
seems to be hetero) characters being bisexual is according to theory of
Binominal distribution 5.64x10^-8 (0.00000564%). 

But for once, I really didnt mind. Perhaps PC is jsut so damn sexually atractive he can "turn" you just by smiling at you. 

First,
there have been several studies, and each one comes up with a different
percentage - but either way, there is a huge difference between the
number you're presenting which is people who identify as
bisexual, which is to say people like me who say "I am bisexual," and
people who feel or have felt at some point sexual attraction to both
males and females.  There are plenty of the latter who are not the
former, for various reasons; some folk identify a pansexual, others
simply identify as queer, and plenty identify as either straight or gay
despite being capable of attraction to the same or opposite sex
respectively.

An old friend of mine identifies as gay even
though he's attracted to both men and women, because it's easier for him
to be accepted by the gay community that way.  There's a lot of social
pressure to "pick one" from straight and gay folks alike that can cause
people who might otherwise identify as bisexual to claim another
identity.  There's all sorts of baggage attached to identifying as
bisexual.  People assume you're promiscuous, that you're incapable of
fidelity, plenty of stereotypes that are just easier to avoid by going
with a different identity.

In short, how many people identify as bisexual is a poor representation of how many people are capable of feeling attraction for more than one sex.

It's
particularly inapplicable to Thedas, where we have never once seen our
labels applied.  No one talks about being straight, being gay, being bi.
 On the rare occasions someone does talk about having a preference,
it's not in terms of our customary labels - Zevran says he prefers
women, but he clearly is also attracted to men.  He doesn't say he's
"straight-leaning bi," as he would likely be described in our society. 
Anders says he doesn't see a point in restricting who you love by their
body.  He's what we'd call pansexual, but he doesn't call himself that.  

Even leaving aside whether or not Thedas should for some reason correspond percentage-wise to ours, Thedas doesn't use our labels and identifications, so talking about what people identify as in our world?  Means exactly jack in Thedas.

And even if Thedas statistics did correspond to our world that's still no reason for a group of people to match that. A group of friends may consist of only women even though men make up half of the population without it being unrealistic.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 20 mars 2013 - 02:05 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Rawgrim wrote...

I`d like a mix of gays, straights and bis. Player sexuality, however, is pretty damn immersion breaking.

Except there is no way for you to tell if a character is bisexual or playersexual unless said character comes up to you and says,  "Hi my name is ___ and I'm bisexual!!!!" 
How is that any less immersion breaking. Do people actually announce their sexualities to one another when they first meet?

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 20 mars 2013 - 02:09 .

[syllogi]

I have never gotten a straight answer in one of these threads about HOW making a character like Merrill "playersexual" destroys her personality (which, in my view, is extremely well defined), or is more unrealistic than anything else she does in the game...she uses magic, blood magic, and she's an elf, but falling in love with a woman is unbelievable because she allows Carver to mildly flirt with her without puking all over him?

Also, statistics about real life sexuality are almost always going to be inaccurate (because of social stigma) and not applicable to a fantasy game.

[unbentbuzzkill]

interesting thread, But there are times when it feels that my pc is the only straight person left. I just wish it was better balanced.

[Plaintiff]

syllogi wrote...
but falling in love with a woman is unbelievable because she allows Carver to mildly flirt with her without puking all over him?

Absolutely. Everyone knows homosexuals use projectile vomit as a defense mechanism, much in the same manner as squid ink.

Why, I throw up on a woman if she so much as makes eye contact. Your avatar is causing me to vomit furiously even as I type this.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 mars 2013 - 02:31 .

[sandalisthemaker]

syllogi wrote...

I have never gotten a straight answer in one of these threads about HOW making a character like Merrill "playersexual" destroys her personality (which, in my view, is extremely well defined), or is more unrealistic than anything else she does in the game...she uses magic, blood magic, and she's an elf, but falling in love with a woman is unbelievable because she allows Carver to mildly flirt with her without puking all over him?

Also, statistics about real life sexuality are almost always going to be inaccurate (because of social stigma) and not applicable to a fantasy game.

It doesn't affect her personality at all. People just want everything defined and labeled.

@plaintiff:  
ROFL!!

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 20 mars 2013 - 02:33 .

[Plaintiff]

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

interesting thread, But there are times when it feels that my pc is the only straight person left. I just wish it was better balanced.

It really is terrible how media has totally sidelined heterosexuals.

[HolyAvenger]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I`d like a mix of gays, straights and bis. Player sexuality, however, is pretty damn immersion breaking.

Except there is no way for you to tell if a character is bisexual or playersexual unless said character comes up to you and says,  "Hi my name is ___ and I'm bisexual!!!!" 
How is that any less immersion breaking. Do people actually announce their sexualities to one another when they first meet?

 

No but friends and potential romantic interests do discuss past history. I can rattle off a number of BioWare characters that have been presented as at least being attracted to or partners with either gender during conversations with the PC, romanced or not.

That said, I really didn't have issues with playersexual NPCs when I played DA2. I found Isabela the most interesting romance for my MHawke, liked the romance arc and content and didn't really worry about the others hitting on me or not hitting on me or whoever they may or may not f*cked. 

[Dirgegun]

It never broke my immersion, personally. I mean... to really break your immersion you'd have to be metagaming through the entire thing in the first place, right? So you've already broken your immersion yourself. It isn't something the game, itself, has done.

I also thought some of the characters might be more demisexual or pansexual than bisexual, too. Fenris always seemed a bit demisexual to me, for exampe.