596 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

Brockololly wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Personally, were we given the resources to have enough romances that we could have an even spread of sexualities across the party I'd be more than happy to have those sexualities be explicit... but if the idea otherwise is to restrict those interested in gay romances from having the same number of options as others, then no. Fairness and fun gameplay win out.

On this point, I've seen you bring this up quite a bit lately when this topic has arisen.

My question is: why now? For instance, would you do Origins romances the same way if you were to make the game right now? Since Origins had 2 bisexual characters and 2 heterosexual characters but no  explicitly homosexual characters? Would that be a non starter since you  wouldn't have an equal representation of homosexual options?

Or  would the Dragon Age team consider doing something like you had with  Mass Effect 3 where you had Cortez and Traynor as homosexual options  that were explicitly homosexual (turning down a Shep of the opposite  sex)? Or even keeping explicitly heterosexual options in a similar role?


I suppose I would just want to see romances and any other sorts of character  relationships factor more into the plot and offer more reactivity to the player character. And I would imagine  having a more defined and uniquely  written companion/NPC would make for a better sounding board for the  player character. Like Samara shutting down Shepard in ME2 due to her Code; or Aveline shutting down the player in DA2 due to being aloof and interested in the Captain guy; or Alistair being a straight virgin and subsequently having characters like Morrigan and Oghren tease him about his sexuality; or somebody like Leliana being bisexual enriching her past as a bard in Orlais; or back in BG2, having a kid with Aerie and so on. I just want more content that doesn't feel one sized fits all, which is how I felt with the DA2 romances.

I guess I'd just like more reactivity overall from the companions and NPC's, whether that's them commenting on my PC's specialization (Morrigan hating a Templar for instance) or commenting on your appearance (maybe Alistair has a thing for red heads!) or a companion shutting you down romantically because they just don't swing that way.

 

I agree with all of this. It really makes the world feel alive when NPCs are reactive to my character, in any number of ways including sexuality. 

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 20 mars 2013 - 03:55 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Knight of Dane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

This has nothing to do with gender,only with if you finished act III quest and said that you are falling for her.

Must be me doing something wrong then, she always tells Tallis the same thing for my Male Hawke after that.

HeroicGreyWarden is wrong. I confirmed that it is gender-specific with Sheryl Chee, Isabela's writer via PM a while back when I asked her about the reason she did it that way.

Her PM in full:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I was thinking, "Well, what would people say about a male Hawke?" I figured that if someone was talking about the a guy, they'd talk about how awesome he was in bed, and how well-endowed he was, and so on, and so forth, so Isabela's all, "Damn right, it's all true!"

With a female Hawke, I figured there wouldn't be as much suggestive gossip, so Isabela would be more, "She's mine. She wubs me!"

But you know, you can read into it anything you like, that's the fun of it, no?

[InfinitePaths]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

This has nothing to do with gender,only with if you finished act III quest and said that you are falling for her.

Must be me doing something wrong then, she always tells Tallis the same thing for my Male Hawke after that.

HeroicGreyWarden is wrong. I confirmed that it is gender-specific with Sheryl Chee, Isabela's writer via PM a while back when I asked her about the reason she did it that way.

Her PM in full:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I was thinking, "Well, what would people say about a male Hawke?" I figured that if someone was talking about the a guy, they'd talk about how awesome he was in bed, and how well-endowed he was, and so on, and so forth, so Isabela's all, "Damn right, it's all true!"

With a female Hawke, I figured there wouldn't be as much suggestive gossip, so Isabela would be more, "She's mine. She wubs me!"

But you know, you can read into it anything you like, that's the fun of it, no?

I remember clearly in my  MoTA(male) playtrough  when Talis asked Isabella does she have a pourpose in life.Isabella said:I have a pourpose,I have Hawke.
And he likes rouge,Rivaini rouges especially.

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 20 mars 2013 - 03:59 .

[hoorayforicecream]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

This has nothing to do with gender,only with if you finished act III quest and said that you are falling for her.

Must be me doing something wrong then, she always tells Tallis the same thing for my Male Hawke after that.

HeroicGreyWarden is wrong. I confirmed that it is gender-specific with Sheryl Chee, Isabela's writer via PM a while back when I asked her about the reason she did it that way.

Her PM in full:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I was thinking, "Well, what would people say about a male Hawke?" I figured that if someone was talking about the a guy, they'd talk about how awesome he was in bed, and how well-endowed he was, and so on, and so forth, so Isabela's all, "Damn right, it's all true!"

With a female Hawke, I figured there wouldn't be as much suggestive gossip, so Isabela would be more, "She's mine. She wubs me!"

But you know, you can read into it anything you like, that's the fun of it, no?

I remember clearly in my  MoTA(male) playtrough  when Talis asked Isabella does she have a pourpose in life.Isabella said:I have a pourpose,I have Hawke.

That isn't the line in question. You would have known this had you actually clicked the video links.

The actual difference is this exchange:

Tallis: (Laughs) So it's true what they say about you.
Isabela: (male Hawke) Oh, it is. Trust me.
Isabela: (female Hawke) She likes rogues. Rivaini rogues, especially.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 20 mars 2013 - 04:01 .

[Fiacre]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

This has nothing to do with gender,only with if you finished act III quest and said that you are falling for her.

Must be me doing something wrong then, she always tells Tallis the same thing for my Male Hawke after that.

HeroicGreyWarden is wrong. I confirmed that it is gender-specific with Sheryl Chee, Isabela's writer via PM a while back when I asked her about the reason she did it that way.

Her PM in full:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure I was thinking, "Well, what would people say about a male Hawke?" I figured that if someone was talking about the a guy, they'd talk about how awesome he was in bed, and how well-endowed he was, and so on, and so forth, so Isabela's all, "Damn right, it's all true!"

With a female Hawke, I figured there wouldn't be as much suggestive gossip, so Isabela would be more, "She's mine. She wubs me!"

But you know, you can read into it anything you like, that's the fun of it, no?

I remember clearly in my  MoTA(male) playtrough  when Talis asked Isabella does she have a pourpose in life.Isabella said:I have a pourpose,I have Hawke.

...That's a completely different conversation?

[Plaintiff]

krul2k wrote...

does the companion shouting "IM STRAIGHT" or "IM GAY" define them more as a person?

According to some of the posters on this forum, it's the only thing that defines you as a person.

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
My question is: why now? For instance, would you do Origins romances the same way if you were to make the game right now? Since Origins had 2 bisexual characters and 2 heterosexual characters but no  explicitly homosexual characters? Would that be a non starter since you  wouldn't have an equal representation of homosexual options?

If we did Origins now, it would have been exactly the same way. One has to remember that, while it doesn't seem that long ago, Origins was a very different time. When we started work designing Origins, the only game which had any gay options was Jade Empire. It was still a pretty new thing.

Or  would the Dragon Age team consider doing something like you had with  Mass Effect 3 where you had Cortez and Traynor as homosexual options  that were explicitly homosexual (turning down a Shep of the opposite  sex)? Or even keeping explicitly heterosexual options in a similar role?

Absolutely. The only issue is we'd need the resources to do so-- ME3 essentially had 6 romances in total, not 4. If the total number of romances is going to be lower, than they need to do double-duty (so to speak). I've always said that my preference would be to have set sexualities if we had sufficient resources... my only reservation at this point would be the notion that it would be us "caving" to those who complained, that their complaints would be the only reason we'd do something differently.

And I would imagine  having a more defined and uniquely  written companion/NPC would make for a better sounding board for the  player character.

I don't think that having a set sexuality makes a character "more defined and uniquely written". Alistair had no sexual history at all, and while he's primarily attracted to women it wouldn't have changed his character had he discovered an attraction for the male Warden. Similarly, Morrigan discovering her friendship with the female Warden had grown into something more wouldn't have changed her.

Just because a character can be romanced by any PC doesn't mean they automatically prefer each gender equally... that they're "only gay" in once instance and "only straight" in another. Zevran could be romanced by a man, for instance, even though he admitted that women were his preference. There are some additional things which can be brought up if a character has a set sexuality, but I think it's a stretch when someone makes a connection to the writing of that character-- they're looking for causality where none exists.

[Ferretinabun]

For what it's worth, I just wanted to add that DA2 DOES have straight companions: Aveline and Sebastian are both straight.

So 'Everyone is bi' is clearly false.

[Plaintiff]

krul2k wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

krul2k wrote...

does the companion shouting "IM STRAIGHT" or "IM GAY" define them more as a person?

According to some of the posters on this forum, it's the only thing that defines you as a person.

tbh the topics showing me up for how stupid i am anyhow cause i honestly cant understand or see any problems

We must both be pretty stupid, then.

[nightscrawl]

Brockololly - None of that really has to do with excluding PCs of either gender from the romance though. I imagine that a gay Alistair would have reacted in a similar way regarding his virginity when dealing with another man. In fact, that exact conversation is available to a male Warden, it just doesn't have the romance initiation prompts. As far as the teasing goes... yeah they would have teased him either way: Morrigan hates him, so any ammunition is fair game, and Oghren, while straight himself, enjoys sexual humor of all types (see: Oghren/Anders DAA dialog).

Given enough time and resources they certainly can make the alternating romances (perhaps we can use this phrase instead of "playersexual"? ) unique to each gender. I would say that Anders is the most unique in the regard in DA2, then again, I would also say that he was the companion that had the most work out of all of them**, especially regarding his involvement in the plot.



** I struggled with a way to phrase this correctly. I don't mean it in a bad way.

[HolyAvenger]

David Gaider wrote...


I don't think that having a set sexuality makes a character "more defined and uniquely written". Alistair had no sexual history at all, and while he's primarily attracted to women it wouldn't have changed his character had he discovered an attraction for the male Warden. Similarly, Morrigan discovering her friendship with the female Warden had grown into something more wouldn't have changed her.

 

I think rejection of the PC by an NPC, for whatever reason (sexuality, higher duty/calling/disagreement with moral choices etc) makes a character more well-defined and interesting. The almost-kiss by Samara in ME2 is one of my favourite character interactions because its one of the few times Shepard doesn't automatically get what they want and it blew me away in my first playthrough of the game. One of the few things I dislike about Citadel is what can happen with Samara and Shepard. Similarly with Traynor and MShep in ME3.

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 20 mars 2013 - 04:15 .

[syllogi]

Ferretinabun wrote...

For what it's worth, I just wanted to add that DA2 DOES have straight companions: Aveline and Sebastian are both straight.

So 'Everyone is bi' is clearly false.

And Varric is Biancasexual.  Funny how with all the cries about realism, nobody seems to have a problem with the deep and abiding love between a dwarf and his crossbow.

Modifié par syllogi, 20 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[Hazegurl]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

The thing is I was not saying stuff agains bisexuallity,I am against playersexuallity

But how do you know its playersexuality without multiple playthroughs or reading about it? In my first playthrough, I didn't read anything about DA2 and had no idea who I could or couldn't romance. I played a male Hawke and Although Anders expressed that he was in a gay relationship with Karl I thought nothing of it. I didn't even find Anders attractive but I flirted with him. I knew he could be a romance option for my gay Hawke based on him talking about Karl.

At first I didn't like Fenris but later on I found myself drawn to his character more. I flirted with him as well as Anders but it didn't seem to go anywhere. He left me with sort of a question mark although I felt he was gay as he kinda complimented Hawke when he first saw him. But he was still up in the air.

Due to nothing happening with Fenris, Isabela came over for sexy time and I figured "Why not" and had Hawke bang her. She was the one I knew for certain was open to men and women.  Sadly, sleeping with her ruined any chances of my Hawke hooking up with Fenris. But I didn't know that. I figured that perhaps Fenris was really straight or simply not interested (I had him in rival and had no idea I could still romance him).

It wasn't until after I played the game that I read up on how to get Fenris that I had confirmation that my unoffical romance with Isabela was the problem.  I had no idea I could get any romanceable character I wanted regardless of my character's gender.

Isabela= well known bisexual and screws everything that isn't nailed down.
Anders= gay
Fenris= possibly gay (I buy the demisexual thing with him)
Merrill= didn't care

If you don't bother flirting with all the romanceable characters (especially Fenris and Merrill) then how would you even know they are truly interested in Hawke thus know its playersexuality? I don't see how its Bioware's fault that you spoiled yourself.

If your Hawke is gay, you pretty much only have two male options to go on. Fenris and Anders which is much better than DAO where a gay warden only had Zevran, who prefers women. I really don't get your complaint.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 20 mars 2013 - 04:21 .

[Plaintiff]

HolyAvenger wrote...

David Gaider wrote...


I don't think that having a set sexuality makes a character "more defined and uniquely written". Alistair had no sexual history at all, and while he's primarily attracted to women it wouldn't have changed his character had he discovered an attraction for the male Warden. Similarly, Morrigan discovering her friendship with the female Warden had grown into something more wouldn't have changed her.

 

I think rejection of the PC by an NPC, for whatever reason (sexuality, higher duty/calling/disagreement with moral choices etc) makes a character more well-defined and interesting. The almost-kiss by Samara in ME2 is one of my favourite character interactions because its one of the few times Shepard doesn't automatically get what they want and it blew me away in my first playthrough of the game. One of the few things I dislike about Citadel is what can happen with Samara and Shepard. Similarly with Traynor and MShep in ME3.

There are already similar instances in DA2.

[HolyAvenger]

Plaintiff wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

David Gaider wrote...


I don't think that having a set sexuality makes a character "more defined and uniquely written". Alistair had no sexual history at all, and while he's primarily attracted to women it wouldn't have changed his character had he discovered an attraction for the male Warden. Similarly, Morrigan discovering her friendship with the female Warden had grown into something more wouldn't have changed her.

 

I think rejection of the PC by an NPC, for whatever reason (sexuality, higher duty/calling/disagreement with moral choices etc) makes a character more well-defined and interesting. The almost-kiss by Samara in ME2 is one of my favourite character interactions because its one of the few times Shepard doesn't automatically get what they want and it blew me away in my first playthrough of the game. One of the few things I dislike about Citadel is what can happen with Samara and Shepard. Similarly with Traynor and MShep in ME3.

There are already similar instances in DA2.

 

Yes Sebastian/Aveline (sort of). I know. I did not pay for the DLC because I was not that happy with the game. I'm saying we should see more of it, and perhaps for reasons of sexuality, because that does build immersion, I think. And I'm fine with SS exclusive romances and as well hetero-exclusive ones. 

It is, as David mentions, a question of resources. I get that. It just something cool that I would love to see. 

[BeatoSama]

Anders dumps you if you make a deal with the demon. Aveline or Varric won't get with you no matter what. Sebastian won't have sex with you and dumps you if you don't kill Anders so there are already cases of companions doing this.

[Plaintiff]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

David Gaider wrote...


I don't think that having a set sexuality makes a character "more defined and uniquely written". Alistair had no sexual history at all, and while he's primarily attracted to women it wouldn't have changed his character had he discovered an attraction for the male Warden. Similarly, Morrigan discovering her friendship with the female Warden had grown into something more wouldn't have changed her.

 

I think rejection of the PC by an NPC, for whatever reason (sexuality, higher duty/calling/disagreement with moral choices etc) makes a character more well-defined and interesting. The almost-kiss by Samara in ME2 is one of my favourite character interactions because its one of the few times Shepard doesn't automatically get what they want and it blew me away in my first playthrough of the game. One of the few things I dislike about Citadel is what can happen with Samara and Shepard. Similarly with Traynor and MShep in ME3.

There are already similar instances in DA2.

 

Yes Sebastian/Aveline (sort of). I know. I did not pay for the DLC because I was not that happy with the game. I'm saying we should see more of it, and perhaps for reasons of sexuality, because that does build immersion, I think. And I'm fine with SS exclusive romances and as well hetero-exclusive ones. 

It is, as David mentions, a question of resources. I get that. It just something cool that I would love to see. 

Also, Fenris will not sleep with you if you sleep with anyone else first. Anders will dump you if you take the deal with Torpor in Night Terrors. There may be more.

I think homosexuals had more than enough rejection-based "immersion" in ME1 and 2, don't you?

[Hazegurl]

And doesn't Fenris dump you and leave the party if you don't go after Hadrianna in enough time?

[HolyAvenger]

BeatoSama wrote...

Anders dumps you if you make a deal with the demon. Sebastian won't have sex with you and dumps you if you don't kill Anders so there are already cases of companions doing this.

 

Yeah we need more of this stuff, but across more decisions and characters. I didn't know about Anders and the demon thing, and like I said, I never paid for Sebastian (though I knew about his romance uniqueness).

Aveline and Varric don't really count, because simply not being LIs does not equate to rejection, imo. 

[The Elder King]

Plaintiff wrote...



I think homosexuals had more than enough rejection-based "immersion" in ME1 and 2, don't you?

Male homosexuals. Female homosexuals had Liara and Kelly.
Though I didn't recall that there were dialogue options to express romantice feelings for male NPC with maleshep (unless this is what you meant with rejection-based immersion).

[BeatoSama]

@HolyAvenger

You can flirt with them and they reject you. Doesn't that count as rejection?

Modifié par BeatoSama, 20 mars 2013 - 04:28 .