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The Crucible and how it invalidates Synthesis


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#1
Argolas

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"Disrupts socio-technological balance. All scientific advancement due to intelligence overcoming, compensating, for limitations. Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations, no advancement. No advancement, culture stagnates. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready. Disastrous."

-Mordin Solus-

So Argolas can't seem to let go. Here I am again after all, so let's get to it.

My premise in that thread is this: We are not deceived. The endings are real and everything is exactly as it seems to be. There is no Indoctrination involved in the endings. This is the most favorable interpretation of Synthesis that I can think of.

tl;dr: As the ultimate technological achievement of organics and synthetics, the crucible proves the superiority of organic and synthetic cooperation over a synthesized society that represents the "final evolution". If you are a little more patient than that, read Section 4.

Contents:

[*]Section 1: Reaper technological domince You may skip that part of you are already aware how Reaper technolgy dominates both organic and synthetic life[*]Section 2: What the Crucible is A brief explanation of how the crucible was created and what it means
[*]Section 3: Why the Crucible breaks the Cycle Just that. With awesome pictures.
[*]Section 4: What does this have to do with Synthesis? This is the juicy part.


Section 1: Reaper technological dominance

The crucible is the key to breaking the cycle. The most advanced technology in the MEU are the Mass Relay network, the Citadel which is its hub, and the Reapers themselves. The Mass Relay network is an unbeatable means of travel and communication. The Reapers themselves are starships with unbeatable speed, armor, shields, durability and weapons. The galaxy depends on the Relay network and the Citadel and has no equal tech of their own, never attempted to create because people like Aethyta are laughed at. The Galaxy sticks to what it has because it works without any effort.

Most non- Reaper technology in the galaxy is developed by those who are unaware of the Reapers, but it is developed based on principles that the Reapers are aware of, the most common one would be the Mass Effect. This is what Souvereign means by organics developing "along the paths we desire", this ensures that the Reaper technological dominance remains unbroken. By the time the Reapers attack, it is usually to late. There is little time to study them in order to develop countermeasures, organics and synthetics are stuck with what technology they have and that is only what the Reapers mean them to have. This is the edge that is the very reason for Reaper dominance and the reason why the cycle works- until now.



Section 2: What the Crucible is

The crucible is exactly what I mentioned above was no time to create: A countermeasure, developed by non-indoctrinated organics and synthetics that are aware of the Reapers. It was created by an unknown species many cycles ago, and the concept was preserved, adapted and improved by every cycle that attempted to build and use it. While Reapers as well as organic and synthetic life are both caught in the pattern that is known as the cycle and keeps repeating itself, the crucible is not going in circles, it keeps evolving while Reapers can't and organics and synthetics are not allowed to. The Crucible is the only thing in the MEU that exists outside the cycle.



Section 3: Why the Crucible breaks the Cycle

The cycle is a concept that is inherantly flawed with stagnation. The crucible is, by definition, superior. The crucible was probably a very weak device with little to no chance of success first, but as the cycle keeps going in circles, the crucible which is meant to break it keeps becoming better, more advanced, eventually breaking the cycle.. I will use pictures in order to illustrate what I mean.

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The crucible is a small thing, far from enough to break the cycle.


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The cycle is a pattern that keeps repeating itself. The crucible is passed on and on. However, it does not always stay the same. Some cycles may not improve it, some cycles may not even attempt to build it, but there are breakthroughs. These are represented here.


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And it goes on and on and on and on and on and on it goes- yes, this is repeating itself, and the cycle works again and again. However, it starts to look like something is going to happen...


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Boom. Yes, there we have it. It worked again and again, but the crucible is not part of the pattern, even with the purpose to break it, and since it kept advancing this was bound to suceed one day.


Section 4: What does this have to do with Synthesis?

The Catalyst once declared the cycle to be the ideal solution ("It was the ideal solution"). It made a logical mistake by underestimating organics ("Clearly, organics are more resourceful than we realized"), it failed to destroy the Crucible once and for all ("We believed the concept had been eradicated"). The Catalyst believed that by ensuring Control over the most advanced technology that ever existed, no other technology could beat it. It underestimated how powerful advancement and adaption are, even when going against perfection. The Crucible proves that the Catalyst made a logical mistake.

By suggesting Synthesis was the ideal solution, the Catalyst makes the same logical mistake again. Synthesized people are the "final evolution", which means supposed perfection, but no further evolution. Synthesis thus leaves the galaxy unable to advance, not technologically, but life itself. Just like the already synthesized Reapers, we become something greater, smarter, stronger, but left to stagnation.

By choosing Synthesis, we make the same mistake that brought down the Reapers. While it will work for a while, maybe even very long, we create a different cycle. And the next time, we will be on the bad end.


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Thank you.

Modifié par Argolas, 22 avril 2013 - 12:47 .


#2
Mcfly616

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One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible

#3
Yestare7

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[*]By suggesting Synthesis was the ideal solution, the Catalyst makes the same logical mistake again.

[*]
[*]
[*]+1   I like the way you think.  Synthesis is like a F88ckin curse from the grave of a demented AI

#4
mumba

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Synthesis...

#5
Leonardo the Magnificent

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While I'm not exactly proud of it, I've nearly phased synthesis entirely out of the ending process, at least mentally.

#6
Argolas

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Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible


If a plant is a non-sentient organic, every VI, even every computer is non-sentient synthetic and those did help a great deal, for example Glyph. Also, the Geth possibly help in ME3, and we have no way of knowing how many synthetic species helped with the crucible in previous cycles. As we know, Synthetics are wiped out by the Reapers just like organics are, so it makes perfect sense.

#7
Mavqt

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Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible


Don't the Geth say they'll help once you either side with them or peace is created between them and the Quarians.

#8
Yestare7

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Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

While I'm not exactly proud of it, I've nearly phased synthesis entirely out of the ending process, at least mentally.



But you should be proud of that!!  Maybe we can start a club!!

#9
IntelligentME3Fanboy

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Ah yes,"Synthesis".We have dismissed that claim

#10
Leonardo the Magnificent

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Yestare7 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

While I'm not exactly proud of it, I've nearly phased synthesis entirely out of the ending process, at least mentally.



But you should be proud of that!!  Maybe we can start a club!!


Only if we bring that club down upon the heads of infantile seals.

#11
Phatose

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So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.

#12
Argolas

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Phatose wrote...

So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.


Because "final evolution" means no more revolution after that. It means that quite literally. I don't know how you get the idea that "life" is no longer the appropriate term. EDI uses that in the epilogue as well.

#13
Phatose

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In the epilogue, EDI also makes very clear evolution is continuing though. "To recover the greatness that was lost....and surpass it." "We may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level I cannot even imagine."

I think you're misinterpreting metaphor.

#14
Mcfly616

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mavqt wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible


Don't the Geth say they'll help once you either side with them or peace is created between them and the Quarians.

so? We're simply building a machine based on blueprints handed down from cycle to cycle. All thr Geth would be doing is following the blueprints....not adding anything.

#15
Warden130

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What if the Catalyst is correct? Not its solution by using the reapers, but that Synthetics will eventually wipe out organics. If he is correct then Destroy doesn't fix anything and Control only fixes things if Shepard continues the cycle which we all know he will never do.

#16
Phatose

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Er....every cycle adds to the crucible. Do you have some reason to suggest that doesn't include ours?

#17
KingZayd

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Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible


Source?

There have been lots of cycles. How do you know no synthetics were ever involved in making the Crucible what it is today?

#18
devSin

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The concepts of acceptance, tolerance, and equality all invalidate synthesis.

You don't even need charts and infographics.

#19
Argolas

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Phatose wrote...

In the epilogue, EDI also makes very clear evolution is continuing though. "To recover the greatness that was lost....and surpass it." "We may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level I cannot even imagine."

I think you're misinterpreting metaphor.


That first one is not evolution, it refers to rebuilding the galaxy, that is clear in the context of the slides. About transcending mortality, this is a very ambigious statement, but considering that Synthetics as well as Reapers are already immortal, it is safe to assume that it already happened and EDI is just not consicious about what exactly Synthesis did yet.

And I don't understand how this is a metaphor at all. "Final evolution" means that was the final one, nothing more coming.

#20
Gilbert Salarian

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Phatose wrote...

In the epilogue, EDI also makes very clear evolution is continuing though. "To recover the greatness that was lost....and surpass it." "We may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level I cannot even imagine."

I think you're misinterpreting metaphor.



By giving all beings shared experiences and thought processes, conflict is removed.  Without conflict, stagnation occurs.  Look at the advances made in the 20th Century: they were (by and large) solutions to problems.  If you remove obstacles, what impetus is there for growth?  Mortality is the only obstacle left in the Synthesized galaxy, but the problem here is how death is viewed.  Some cultures (like the asari) accept that death happens, whereas others (like humans) tend to fear death.  Which view becomes the dominant view in a Synthesized?

#21
Phatose

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Gilbert Salarian wrote...

Phatose wrote...

In the epilogue, EDI also makes very clear evolution is continuing though. "To recover the greatness that was lost....and surpass it." "We may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level I cannot even imagine."

I think you're misinterpreting metaphor.



By giving all beings shared experiences and thought processes, conflict is removed.  Without conflict, stagnation occurs.  Look at the advances made in the 20th Century: they were (by and large) solutions to problems.  If you remove obstacles, what impetus is there for growth?  Mortality is the only obstacle left in the Synthesized galaxy, but the problem here is how death is viewed.  Some cultures (like the asari) accept that death happens, whereas others (like humans) tend to fear death.  Which view becomes the dominant view in a Synthesized?


Whoa there tiger.  The removal of the conflict between organics and synthetics ain't the same thing as the removal of all conflict. 

#22
Argolas

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Gilbert Salarian wrote...

Phatose wrote...

In the epilogue, EDI also makes very clear evolution is continuing though. "To recover the greatness that was lost....and surpass it." "We may transcend mortality itself, to reach a level I cannot even imagine."

I think you're misinterpreting metaphor.



By giving all beings shared experiences and thought processes, conflict is removed.  Without conflict, stagnation occurs.


Yes, that explains why Synthesis is the final evolution. Also remember Mordin:

"Can't carry a load, so invent wheel. Can't catch food, so invent spear. Limitations! No limitations, no advancement! No advancement, culture stagnates! Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready disastrous."

#23
Yestare7

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IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

Ah yes,"Synthesis".We have dismissed that claim


+1

This thread is full of win!!!

#24
Argolas

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Phatose wrote...

Whoa there tiger.  The removal of the conflict between organics and synthetics ain't the same thing as the removal of all conflict. 


Synthesis seems to remove all conflict. It even appeases Wreav, and I am pretty sure he was not on a crusade against synthetics.

#25
Yestare7

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devSin wrote...

The concepts of acceptance, tolerance, and equality all invalidate synthesis.




Best thread evah!!



Y

Modifié par Yestare7, 20 mars 2013 - 12:53 .