225 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

Here is the flaw in this logic. How long are we suppose to wait for this supposed evolution? We (organics) are still murdering and butchering each other after billions of years of evolution and we are still creating synthetics getting mad they exist and then waging war against them.

So how is the universe not already stagnant? What beautifull evolved state gdo people think we are missing out on? How do we know that synthesis is the final evolved state anyways and if it is why would I be upset that I reached that final evolved state a few billion years early avoiding all the bloodshed and death that would likely stem from it.

Destroy is essentially Shepard becoming a Reaper except while the Reapers only reaped a portion of organics, Shepard is reaping all synthetics. And why? So most people can see him breathe ie you kill all synthetics so a single organic can live, lol. And what is the destroy ending but a validation that Prejudice is ok.

Your reward is that in a few hundred years some idiot is going to create synthetic life again, get mad that it exists and then War will start again. This is pretty inevitable because you pretty much confirmed that it is ok to be prejudice by wipping out all synthetic races again just so you can breathe, lol.

[DeathScepter]

I don't like green or Synthesis. Am I a bad person? No. Destroy or Control is where it is at.

[o Ventus]

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Modifié par o Ventus, 20 mars 2013 - 04:28 .

[remydat]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Phatose wrote...

So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.

Final evolution of life is an oxymoron.

Biological stagnation leads to irrelevancy. Leads to an inability to deal with an environment (in this case the universe) that is continuing to evolve.

I snap my fingers and grant you immortality as you are today.

How are Humans going to look at you in 100,000 years? At what point are you simply going to be unable to manage or even process the world that these evolving Humans create?

The OP is spot on. All life in the universe will continue to grow and change biologically and be able to relate to it and change it in ways that the "final evolution" won't be able to.

The greene lose.

I can imagine Mordin laughing himself to death listening to the kid tout Synthesis.

What evolution has taken place in your lifetime?  Yet you somehow survive and adapt.  It is not because you are evolving, it is because you have a brain.  That doesn't change with synthesis.

I think people need to be clear what they are talking about when they say evolution.  Evolution is a long process that due to finite organic existence we would die long before we notice it.  It took millions of years for us to move from being an apelike to become men.

Furthermore, natural selection which I presume is what most people are really talking about naturally occurs provided people reproduce.  Unless these hubrids have the exact same DNA and hence give birth to the exact same child, natural selection would still occur because it is the passing down of inherited traits and the inherited traits that best allow a species to survive usually result in that species suriving.  Those traits depend on the DNA and as long as the DNA of these hybrids are different which it has to be otherwise they would all look alike, they have to pass on different DNA to their children which means natural selection will continue.

So sorry guys, this whole stagnation business so nice and all but unless I am missing something here, it is just bad science.  Not possible.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 04:40 .

[Vigilant111]

Wayning_Star wrote...

the question is simple: Do organics control their own version of destiny or does Nature it's self hold the key to intellect, and how that intellect interacts with or against nature to survive.

What will you do and how far you will go to survive Mother nature as it evolves you? Do you even have a say about it, you know, be an independent agent, all things considered.

IN the MEU, apparently not.

(you cannot destroy the catalyst by using the catalyst to destroy the catalyst..lol, that'd make you the catalyst, and a pinnacle of evolution or 'top dog', in that minimal scheme of things

Are u responding to the posts above? or are these just random musings about nothing? Anyway, I am not sure if you are saying that organics creating synthetics is in fact, mother nature, and that synthesis provides a way to overcoming this mother nature? Why do u go picking on mother nature so early? Sure, mother nature can be destructive, but it has also MADE YOU

Also, to be an independent agent, u first have to be one, that is, u are from another universe, and are not relying on the laws of physics in this universe in order to exist... I sincerely hope that synthesis grants you such ability by way of technological singularity:innocent:

[remydat]

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 04:43 .

[Vigilant111]

remydat wrote...

What evolution has taken place in your lifetime?  Yet you somehow survive and adapt.  It is not because you are evolving, it is because you have a brain.  That doesn't change with synthesis.

I think people need to be clear what they are talking about when they say evolution.  Evolution is a long process that due to finite organic existence we would die long before we notice it.  It took millions of years for us to move from being an apelike to become men.

Furthermore, natural selection which I presume is what most people are really talking about naturally occurs provided people reproduce.  Unless these synthetics have the exact same DNA an hence give birth to the exact same child, natural selection would still occur because it is the passing down on inherited traits and the inhereted traits that best allow a species to survive usually result in that species suriving. 

So sorry guys synthesis does not cause stagnation unless I missed where people will no longer have children and everyone has the exact same DNA.

Why do they need children? THEY HAVE SYNTHESIS!!! "I am not alone, I am alive!!!!!"

[remydat]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Why do they need children? THEY HAVE SYNTHESIS!!! "I am not alone, I am alive!!!!!"

I am pretty sure the first thing Joker did with his new hybrid body that presumably cured his disease that made him so fragile is to bang the ever living hell out of EDI.

[Eshaye]

Evolution is a process for a reason, if you take out the process you take out the evolution. Simple. Which is why I view synthesis as an abomination, unnatural and bound to corrupt or decay.

Also you are employing a means that is designed by the very thing you've been opposing, a flawed computer program. Which to me would imply the synthesis solution could also be flawed. (Not to mention it's completely unbelievable and seems more like a dream Shepard is having.)

Also I don't know is synthesis makes you immortal or not, but if it does there goes any reason to reproduce, to pass down anything. If not then it becomes more plausible, people would need to die though for children to be born. 
 

Modifié par Eshaye, 20 mars 2013 - 04:45 .

[remydat]

Eshaye wrote...

Evolution is a process for a reason, if you take out the process you take out the evolution. Simple. Which is why I view synthesis as an abomination, unnatural and bound to corrupt or decay.

Also you are employing a means that is designed by the very thing you've been opposing, a flawed computer program. Which to me would imply the synthesis solution could also be flawed. (Not to mention it's completely unbelievable and seems more like a dream Shepard is having.)

http://en.wikipedia....tural_selection

I encourage people to read the above and explain how synthesis stops this process.  The only way it could is if reproduction no longer happens or if everyone's DNA is identical which it can't be because they would all look alike and all be the same sex.  

[Eshaye]

Hmm no thanks, how about you tell me if synthesis makes you immortal or not first. Reproduction exists because death exists. lol

[Vigilant111]

remydat wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Evolution is a process for a reason, if you take out the process you take out the evolution. Simple. Which is why I view synthesis as an abomination, unnatural and bound to corrupt or decay.

Also you are employing a means that is designed by the very thing you've been opposing, a flawed computer program. Which to me would imply the synthesis solution could also be flawed. (Not to mention it's completely unbelievable and seems more like a dream Shepard is having.)

http://en.wikipedia....tural_selection

I encourage people to read the above and explain how synthesis stops this process.  The only way it could is if reproduction no longer happens or if everyone's DNA is identical which it can't be because they would all look alike and all be the same sex.  

Yes, designer babies, welcome to post-synthesis world, not only people WANT to have those, but now they actually CAN!!!

[remydat]

Eshaye wrote...

Hmm no thanks, how about you tell me if synthesis makes you immortal or not first. Reproduction exists because death exists. lol

I didn't make a thread claiming Synthesis ends evolution.  If the OP or you want to discuss the moral implications of Synthethis then we can discuss it but that is technically a topic for another thread.  This specific thread makes an factually incorrect statement based on incorrect understanding of Evolution and Natural Selection.  I corrected that factual inaccuracy.  Running away from the truth doesn't change the truth.  If you have evidence that people will no longer enjoy sex and have babies because they are immortal then please let me know.  I must have missed where that was stated in the extended cut.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 05:10 .

[Argolas]

Synthesis stands for perfection. Perfection means more than just "good", perfection is by definition a static final thing, that can no longer evolve. The Catalyst calls Synthesis the "final evolution of life" because it is just that, nothing ambiguous about that. Another example are the Reapers, the "pinnacle of evolution". They are perfect and superior to all organics and synthetics beyond doubt. But they are also static and unable to evolve. In the end, that is what made them fail.

Modifié par Argolas, 20 mars 2013 - 05:10 .

[remydat]

Argolas wrote...

Synthesis stands for perfection. Perfection means more than just "good", perfection is by definition a static, final thing, that can no longer evolve. The Catalyst calls Synthesis the "final evolution of life" because it is just that, nothing ambiguous about that. Another example are the Reapers, the "pinnacle of evolution". They are perfect and superior to all organics and synthetics beyond doubt. But they are also static and unable to evolve. In the end, that is what made them fail.

That doesn't change the fact that it is factually incorrect.  You are confusing the Catalyst making grandiose statements for dramatic effect with the truth.  The truth is as long as species reproduce, they are capable of evolution.  Doesn't matter what some dumb kid said as if that dumb kid is infallible.  We know he isn't because he thought the Reapers were a great idea, lol.  Your theory is based on a stupid kid saying things that are not scientifically correct.

Case in point, the Reapers create other Reapers from other species.  The Human Reaper would have been different from the other Reapers because it was made from humans.  If another cycle happened, they would have made Reapers out of the different organic races of that cycle and by doing so would have evolved.  That is the form of reproduction for a reaper so it doesn't matter what was said.  The scientific fact is the Reapers are still evolving because they are still creating new Reapers from different species.

Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 05:22 .

[cerberus1701]

remydat wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

Phatose wrote...

So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.

Final evolution of life is an oxymoron.

Biological stagnation leads to irrelevancy. Leads to an inability to deal with an environment (in this case the universe) that is continuing to evolve.

I snap my fingers and grant you immortality as you are today.

How are Humans going to look at you in 100,000 years? At what point are you simply going to be unable to manage or even process the world that these evolving Humans create?

The OP is spot on. All life in the universe will continue to grow and change biologically and be able to relate to it and change it in ways that the "final evolution" won't be able to.

The greene lose.

I can imagine Mordin laughing himself to death listening to the kid tout Synthesis.

What evolution has taken place in your lifetime?  Yet you somehow survive and adapt.  It is not because you are evolving, it is because you have a brain.  That doesn't change with synthesis.

I think people need to be clear what they are talking about when they say evolution.  Evolution is a long process that due to finite organic existence we would die long before we notice it.  It took millions of years for us to move from being an apelike to become men.

Furthermore, natural selection which I presume is what most people are really talking about naturally occurs provided people reproduce.  Unless these hubrids have the exact same DNA and hence give birth to the exact same child, natural selection would still occur because it is the passing down of inherited traits and the inherited traits that best allow a species to survive usually result in that species suriving.  Those traits depend on the DNA and as long as the DNA of these hybrids are different which it has to be otherwise they would all look alike, they have to pass on different DNA to their children which means natural selection will continue.

So sorry guys, this whole stagnation business so nice and all but unless I am missing something here, it is just bad science.  Not possible.

Human evolution is a macro process.

Which is why I pointed to a 100,000 year scale to make my point.

If you want to see a faster example?

Guess what happened to the Central American Indians who were exposed to Influenza for the first time? 90% of them died because they hadn't had the genetic variation that allowed for resistance or immunity.

The Indians alive today are now as resistant as the Europeans were when they showed up.

At some point you will not be able to adapt. Humans and their tools will move beyond you. You will lose the ability to adapt because eventually the knowledge to create those tools will be lost to you because they will be lost to a society that simply no longer needs to know how to make them.

Every generation evolves. The body evolves. the brain evolves.

The brain doesn't evolve?

http://www.csmonitor...-say-scientists

The Human race has dismissed that claim.


That you could write that nonsense at all? Wow. 

[Vigilant111]

remydat wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

Hmm no thanks, how about you tell me if synthesis makes you immortal or not first. Reproduction exists because death exists. lol

I didn't make a thread claiming Synthesis ends evolution.  If the OP or you want to discuss the moral implications of Synthethis then we can discuss it but that is technically a topic for another thread.  This specific thread makes an factually incorrect statement based on incorrect understanding of Evolution and Natural Selection.  I corrected that factual inaccuracy.  Running away from the truth doesn't change the truth.  If you have evidence that people will no longer enjoy sex and have babies because they are immortal then please let me know.  I must have missed where that was stated in the extended cut.

Some people actually do predict that in the future sex will be simulated, so yea, there you go, synthesis may as well do that

[KingZayd]

remydat wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.

Modifié par KingZayd, 20 mars 2013 - 05:23 .

[Wayning_Star]

Nature here; Do like you're told and evolve!!


end of line

[Wayning_Star]

KingZayd wrote...

remydat wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution

[cerberus1701]

KingZayd wrote...

remydat wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

This.

[KingZayd]

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

remydat wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution

Really? Because i'm pretty sure all those species over the billion years must have had some variety? And yet the Reapers act like one. Those species are dead. At best they are slaves. Using their DNA in a spaceship does not make them any less dead.

Modifié par KingZayd, 20 mars 2013 - 05:28 .

[Wayning_Star]

[quote]o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?[/quote]

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.[/quote]

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

[/quote]

This.

[/quote]

actually see this: hoist with own petard

[remydat]

cerberus1701 wrote...

remydat wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

Phatose wrote...

So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.

Final evolution of life is an oxymoron.

Biological stagnation leads to irrelevancy. Leads to an inability to deal with an environment (in this case the universe) that is continuing to evolve.

I snap my fingers and grant you immortality as you are today.

How are Humans going to look at you in 100,000 years? At what point are you simply going to be unable to manage or even process the world that these evolving Humans create?

The OP is spot on. All life in the universe will continue to grow and change biologically and be able to relate to it and change it in ways that the "final evolution" won't be able to.

The greene lose.

I can imagine Mordin laughing himself to death listening to the kid tout Synthesis.

What evolution has taken place in your lifetime?  Yet you somehow survive and adapt.  It is not because you are evolving, it is because you have a brain.  That doesn't change with synthesis.

I think people need to be clear what they are talking about when they say evolution.  Evolution is a long process that due to finite organic existence we would die long before we notice it.  It took millions of years for us to move from being an apelike to become men.

Furthermore, natural selection which I presume is what most people are really talking about naturally occurs provided people reproduce.  Unless these hubrids have the exact same DNA and hence give birth to the exact same child, natural selection would still occur because it is the passing down of inherited traits and the inherited traits that best allow a species to survive usually result in that species suriving.  Those traits depend on the DNA and as long as the DNA of these hybrids are different which it has to be otherwise they would all look alike, they have to pass on different DNA to their children which means natural selection will continue.

So sorry guys, this whole stagnation business so nice and all but unless I am missing something here, it is just bad science.  Not possible.

Human evolution is a macro process.

Which is why I pointed to a 100,000 year scale to make my point.

If you want to see a faster example?

Guess what happened to the Central American Indians who were exposed to Influenza for the first time? 90% of them died because they hadn't had the genetic variation that allowed for resistance or immunity.

The Indians alive today are now as resistant as the Europeans were when they showed up.

At some point you will not be able to adapt. Humans and their tools will move beyond you. You will lose the ability to adapt because eventually the knowledge to create those tools will be lost to you because they will be lost to a society that simply no longer needs to know how to make them.

Every generation evolves. The body evolves. the brain evolves.

The brain doesn't evolve?

http://www.csmonitor...-say-scientists

The Human race has dismissed that claim.


That you could write that nonsense at all? Wow. 

This is simply not correct.  At the end of Synthesis we see everyone looks the seem except they are Green.  Translation, they still have unique DNA.  I heard nothing that suggests they do not reproduce and the fact that millenia later we see an old man telling a kid about Shepard proves reproduction still occurs.

If reproduction still occurs and if people still have unique DNA, natural selection still occurs.  The only way evolution ends is if people stop reproducing or they reproduce and their kids all have the exact same DNA.  That is not the case.

And of course the brain evolves.  My point was you can adapt via evolution or you can adapt by using your brain to make tools.  Our stomachs are not designed to eat meat.  Over millions of years evolution would have result in us developing that ability but man use his brain to make fire and by doing so pre-empted evolution.

Humans no longer rely as much on biological evolution as other species because we can use are brains to do so.  We don't wait on evolution to grant us immunity from disease.  We create medicine.  So this notion that a hybrid would not adapt is false for 2 reasons.

1.  Evolution still occurs because reproduction and the passing on of traits still occurs.
2.  Hybrids like every organic species will continue to use their brains to adapt and terraform the world they inhabit.

[Wayning_Star]

KingZayd wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

remydat wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?

What in the entire f**k?

Does it kill all synthetics?  Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper.  Reapers actually spare some organic species.  Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.

Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.

they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution

Really? Because i'm pretty sure all those species over the billion years must have had some variety? And yet the Reapers act like one. Those species are dead. At best they are slaves. Using their DNA in a spaceship does not make them any less dead.

no, not according to reaperships. That's like saying Shep was never resurrected?