Wayning_Star wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Modifié par Vigilant111, 20 mars 2013 - 05:33 .
remydat wrote...
cerberus1701 wrote...
remydat wrote...
cerberus1701 wrote...
Phatose wrote...
So.....convince me that "Synthesis is the final evolution of all life" means complete stagnation, and not that post Synthesis, life is no longer the appropriate term.
Final evolution of life is an oxymoron.
Biological stagnation leads to irrelevancy. Leads to an inability to deal with an environment (in this case the universe) that is continuing to evolve.
I snap my fingers and grant you immortality as you are today.
How are Humans going to look at you in 100,000 years? At what point are you simply going to be unable to manage or even process the world that these evolving Humans create?
The OP is spot on. All life in the universe will continue to grow and change biologically and be able to relate to it and change it in ways that the "final evolution" won't be able to.
The greene lose.
I can imagine Mordin laughing himself to death listening to the kid tout Synthesis.
What evolution has taken place in your lifetime? Yet you somehow survive and adapt. It is not because you are evolving, it is because you have a brain. That doesn't change with synthesis.
I think people need to be clear what they are talking about when they say evolution. Evolution is a long process that due to finite organic existence we would die long before we notice it. It took millions of years for us to move from being an apelike to become men.
Furthermore, natural selection which I presume is what most people are really talking about naturally occurs provided people reproduce. Unless these hubrids have the exact same DNA and hence give birth to the exact same child, natural selection would still occur because it is the passing down of inherited traits and the inherited traits that best allow a species to survive usually result in that species suriving. Those traits depend on the DNA and as long as the DNA of these hybrids are different which it has to be otherwise they would all look alike, they have to pass on different DNA to their children which means natural selection will continue.
So sorry guys, this whole stagnation business so nice and all but unless I am missing something here, it is just bad science. Not possible.
Human evolution is a macro process.
Which is why I pointed to a 100,000 year scale to make my point.
If you want to see a faster example?
Guess what happened to the Central American Indians who were exposed to Influenza for the first time? 90% of them died because they hadn't had the genetic variation that allowed for resistance or immunity.
The Indians alive today are now as resistant as the Europeans were when they showed up.
At some point you will not be able to adapt. Humans and their tools will move beyond you. You will lose the ability to adapt because eventually the knowledge to create those tools will be lost to you because they will be lost to a society that simply no longer needs to know how to make them.
Every generation evolves. The body evolves. the brain evolves.
The brain doesn't evolve?
http://www.csmonitor...-say-scientists
The Human race has dismissed that claim.
That you could write that nonsense at all? Wow.
This is simply not correct. At the end of Synthesis we see everyone looks the seem except they are Green. Translation, they still have unique DNA. I heard nothing that suggests they do not reproduce and the fact that millenia later we see an old man telling a kid about Shepard proves reproduction still occurs.
If reproduction still occurs and if people still have unique DNA, natural selection still occurs. The only way evolution ends is if people stop reproducing or they reproduce and their kids all have the exact same DNA. That is not the case.
And of course the brain evolves. My point was you can adapt via evolution or you can adapt by using your brain to make tools. Our stomachs are not designed to eat meat. Over millions of years evolution would have result in us developing that ability but man use his brain to make fire and by doing so pre-empted evolution.
Humans no longer rely as much on biological evolution as other species because we can use are brains to do so. We don't wait on evolution to grant us immunity from disease. We create medicine. So this notion that a hybrid would not adapt is false for 2 reasons.
1. Evolution still occurs because reproduction and the passing on of traits still occurs.
2. Hybrids like every organic species will continue to use their brains to adapt and terraform the world they inhabit.
Vigilant111 wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
They didn't spare anyone, they got them all eventually, otherwise "Take Earth Back" would have no meaning
Oops, well, it has NO meaning anyway but u get my point
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 05:39 .
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution
Really? Because i'm pretty sure all those species over the billion years must have had some variety? And yet the Reapers act like one. Those species are dead. At best they are slaves. Using their DNA in a spaceship does not make them any less dead.
no, not according to reaperships. That's like saying Shep was never resurrected?
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
Modifié par Vigilant111, 20 mars 2013 - 05:42 .
Modifié par Enhanced, 20 mars 2013 - 05:43 .
CosmicGnosis wrote...
I know that it's often used in a negative context in stories, probably just as often as it's used in a positive context. I think Ieldra has stated it best: In order to survive in a large and hostile universe, we will have to change. We cannot remain as we are if we truly wish to explore and comprehend our existence and the nature of reality. What exactly that change should be is open to debate and speculation.
Modifié par ruggly, 20 mars 2013 - 05:53 .
remydat wrote...
Argolas wrote...
Synthesis stands for perfection. Perfection means more than just "good", perfection is by definition a static, final thing, that can no longer evolve. The Catalyst calls Synthesis the "final evolution of life" because it is just that, nothing ambiguous about that. Another example are the Reapers, the "pinnacle of evolution". They are perfect and superior to all organics and synthetics beyond doubt. But they are also static and unable to evolve. In the end, that is what made them fail.
That doesn't change the fact that it is factually incorrect. You are confusing the Catalyst making grandiose statements for dramatic effect with the truth. The truth is as long as species reproduce, they are capable of evolution. Doesn't matter what some dumb kid said as if that dumb kid is infallible. We know he isn't because he thought the Reapers were a great idea, lol. Your theory is based on a stupid kid saying things that are not scientifically correct.
remydat wrote...
Case in point, the Reapers create other Reapers from other species. The Human Reaper would have been different from the other Reapers because it was made from humans. If another cycle happened, they would have made Reapers out of the different organic races of that cycle and by doing so would have evolved. That is the form of reproduction for a reaper so it doesn't matter what was said. The scientific fact is the Reapers are still evolving because they are still creating new Reapers from different species.
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
If they've reached the space age, they're hardly primitives.
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution
Really? Because i'm pretty sure all those species over the billion years must have had some variety? And yet the Reapers act like one. Those species are dead. At best they are slaves. Using their DNA in a spaceship does not make them any less dead.
no, not according to reaperships. That's like saying Shep was never resurrected?
According to the Reaperships (Sovereign):
Our extinction is inevitable. EXTINCTION. Not Preservation.
Reapers =/= the same species as those killed to make them.
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
If they've reached the space age, they're hardly primitives.
Again, that is precisely why Javik said the Protheans stopped engaging with the Asari, humans, etc. Once the war with the Reapers started they cut off communicating leaving the beacons in the hope the Reapers did not Reap them because they were too primitive.
Argolas wrote...
remydat wrote...
Argolas wrote...
Synthesis stands for perfection. Perfection means more than just "good", perfection is by definition a static, final thing, that can no longer evolve. The Catalyst calls Synthesis the "final evolution of life" because it is just that, nothing ambiguous about that. Another example are the Reapers, the "pinnacle of evolution". They are perfect and superior to all organics and synthetics beyond doubt. But they are also static and unable to evolve. In the end, that is what made them fail.
That doesn't change the fact that it is factually incorrect. You are confusing the Catalyst making grandiose statements for dramatic effect with the truth. The truth is as long as species reproduce, they are capable of evolution. Doesn't matter what some dumb kid said as if that dumb kid is infallible. We know he isn't because he thought the Reapers were a great idea, lol. Your theory is based on a stupid kid saying things that are not scientifically correct.
First, I can't see any fact that proves me wrong in your posts.
Excuse me for taking the Catalyst's word because it's the only source about what Synthesis is or does we have. There is no second character explaining it, no Codex, nothing. Just the Catalyst's words. If you ignore them, you have nothing to go on at all if you try to understand what Synthesis actually does. Oh, and by the way, that is not a kid, it is the entity that came up with Synthesis. If you claim that Catalyst does not understand it correctly, who does? You? Or are you just stating an interpretation that contradicts mine while you call yours fact?
I also challange your statement that evolution is granted as long as species reproduce. This is true in the real world, but the conditions in the MEU are different. There is other life than biological life there, there are synthetic species, and what we are dealing with here is organic-synthetic hybrids. This is beyond everything that biology can cover, so don't go all scientific on me. If you are that strict, you would have to say that Synthesis like we see it in the game is impossible.remydat wrote...
Case in point, the Reapers create other Reapers from other species. The Human Reaper would have been different from the other Reapers because it was made from humans. If another cycle happened, they would have made Reapers out of the different organic races of that cycle and by doing so would have evolved. That is the form of reproduction for a reaper so it doesn't matter what was said. The scientific fact is the Reapers are still evolving because they are still creating new Reapers from different species.
I never saw any difference between Reapers, no matter what species they are from. It does not even matter if we talk to Harbinger or a random Destroyer (Rannoch), they all say the same thing, they are all replaceable. The harvested species are not the identity of the Reapers, the Catalyst, their collective intelligence, is. The harvested species are just DNA paste pumped into a giant starship. And once again, no scientific fact there.
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
If they've reached the space age, they're hardly primitives.
Again, that is precisely why Javik said the Protheans stopped engaging with the Asari, humans, etc. Once the war with the Reapers started they cut off communicating leaving the beacons in the hope the Reapers did not Reap them because they were too primitive.
That does nothing to counter my point. No species that survives to the space age is spared by the Reapers.
Modifié par remydat, 20 mars 2013 - 05:53 .
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
they 'preserve', not destroy, otherwise there'd be NO reaperships to battle? (force change/evolution
Really? Because i'm pretty sure all those species over the billion years must have had some variety? And yet the Reapers act like one. Those species are dead. At best they are slaves. Using their DNA in a spaceship does not make them any less dead.
no, not according to reaperships. That's like saying Shep was never resurrected?
According to the Reaperships (Sovereign):
Our extinction is inevitable. EXTINCTION. Not Preservation.
Reapers =/= the same species as those killed to make them.
but it's not 'the boss' it doesn't know jack about it really, the catalyst pulls the strings, the reaperships follow their indoctrination. For it to believe in it's duties as a reapership, it must cling to an ideal, just like Saren/TIM.
It doesn't lie per se, Sovereign only regurgitates it's ideal of what Shep has in store for him/her. Besides,they harvest synthetics as well, why do that if destruction is the main objective? The catalyst could just as easily wipe out all creation with it's ships,then fly them into a sun to finish up. Just "END" the MEU. Instead it converts matter into another form, quantifies their intellect as reaperships and stores their DNA in a Noah's Ark like manner.
Why do that, if 'destruction' is inevitable? Destroying an old house is much more practical than rejuvenation...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
KingZayd wrote...
remydat wrote...
o Ventus wrote...
"Destroy makes Shepard a Reaper"?
What in the entire f**k?
Does it kill all synthetics? Oh my bad, it does not make him a Reaper. Reapers actually spare some organic species. Shepard kills all synthetics which is worse, lol.
Reapers kill all species eventually. Except the ones that die out before they reach the space age.
Killing the synthetics to kill the Reapers is akin to killing Balak at the cost of hostages. Except that this decision is much easier, as Balak is far less likely to kill everyone in the galaxy.
No they don't. It is stated clearly they kill advanced civilization. It is never stated clearly but there are primitive species that we don't see in Mass Effect because they are primitive. They are not space faring, having no idea other species exist and so the Reapers don't reap them. We only see the species that are advanced enough to use the Relays. Just like 50 thousand years ago, humans existed but they were left untouched by the reapears because we were primitive.
If they've reached the space age, they're hardly primitives.
Again, that is precisely why Javik said the Protheans stopped engaging with the Asari, humans, etc. Once the war with the Reapers started they cut off communicating leaving the beacons in the hope the Reapers did not Reap them because they were too primitive.
That does nothing to counter my point. No species that survives to the space age is spared by the Reapers.
And? That is not all species so once again the Reapers do not kill all organics which is the point I was making.
Wayning_Star wrote...
IF harvest is killing, why call it harvest? Non sequitur
KingZayd wrote...
Wayning_Star wrote...
IF harvest is killing, why call it harvest? Non sequitur
Because it's like farming to them. You let the crop grow, and then when it's time for the harvest you cut it.
also here is a possible definition of harvest: "To take or kill (fish or deer, for example) for food, sport, or population control."
So you see it's not a non sequitur at all.
Applepie_Svk wrote...
^ cocaine also helped... lol
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