225 réponses à ce sujet

[OdanUrr]

Phatose wrote...

Er...doesn't the Catalyst flat out tell you the Crucible is simply an energy source?

That only makes things worse.<_<

[Argolas]

OdanUrr wrote...

Argolas wrote...

The crucible is the one and only (relevant) technology that is made by people who are aware of the reapers, and it is even meant to tackle the Reapers directly. Plus, every cycle can add its pieces to it because it is passed on. The critical point is that this technology continiously adapts to the Reapers, that is something that no other tech can do since most relevant technology is based on what the Reapers left behind. In other words: No one ever cared to think outside the box, now they are forced to (keyword: limitations). That is how the crucible was created, and that is also how the only other tech we know of that ever hurt the Reapers badly was created: The conduit and the anti-Keeper-virus the Protheans made on Ilos. None of both could have been made without being aware of the Reapers.

I've read this a number of times and still can't figure out how it addresses my point. Yes, when confronted with the prospect of the Reapers certain civilizations might be encouraged to think outside the box. I say might because there really is no incentive to re-invent the wheel rather than to work with their current technology. After all, I don't think the Reapers go door-to-door revealing that the Citadel and the mass relays were their creation and, even if they did, their technology would probably be so ingrained that thinking outside the box to a degree capable of surpassing the Reapers' achievements seems not only improbable but nearly impossible.

Being aware of the Reapers is the critical thing. You can't figure out how you beat something you are not aware of. That is what I mean. Also, there is a difference between plain Reaper tech and technology just based on Reaper tech. The Citadel and the Relays are of the first kind, they are direct Reaper tech and a trap. The galaxy does not understand them and still uses them, thus becoming dependant on them. Although every device based on the Mass Effect is based on Reaper tech somehow, it is still the galaxy's own tech that they understand and are able to construct on their own. The Reapers can take the Citadel and the Relays away, but they can't take the Mass Effect away.

OdanUrr wrote...

The examples you've brought up are still restricted to working with Reaper tech and they don't surpass it. The Conduit was simply a Prothean prototype of a mass relay (a Reaper creation) and the "anti-Keeper-virus" was simply a tool to block a function of the Keepers. The Crucible, however, is a weapon so advanced that even the Catalyst could not devise it. You say it was built upon cycle after cycle but we're talking about periods of millions if not billions of years. It's unrealistic to assume that the plans for the Crucible survived intact from each and every cycle to the next or that less advanced species could understand them, let alone add to them. How many records have been lost in our own history over a much smaller period of time?

That's the point, there is no need to surpass Reaper tech. There is no way to surpass perfection- but that does not mean it can't be beaten. The conduit is something that the Protheans constructed and a device of their own, the Reapers did not mean the galaxy to have something like that (thus the attacks before they evolve too far) and thus it hurt them. The virus was a anti-reaper countermeasure that the Reapers did not mean the galaxy to have, that is why they rely on surprise attacks to give them no more time to figure out something like that, but those Protheans slipped through their fingers and thus it hurt the Reapers. Chance demands that things like that happen, and every time this happens, the Reapers are pushed a little more towards the edge of defeat.
As for how the Crucible concept survived: As I said before, the smartest people in the galaxy work on the Crucible every time it is built, someone always must think of making copies of the blueprints and spread them all over the galaxy in case they fail (which is always the more likely scenario). It is impossible for giant starships and their mostly mindless thralls to find every single copy, just like it is impossible to eradicate all traces of former civilizations although they always try (established in ME1).

OdanUrr wrote...

The technology for the Synthesis solution is a different matter. The only technolgy that we have to beat is the cycle, and to beat the cycle the Reapers must be removed. That is what the crucible does.

The Crucible can do many things. The problem is that we don't know what it was built to do. What was the Crucible's original purpose? Perhaps most people would agree it was built to destroy the Reapers, but then how is it able to achieve Synthesis? Why would that function be built into the device in the first place? Or are you proposing that the Catalyst somehow repurposed the Crucible at the last minute but was also somehow unable to activate it? Not that long ago I wrote a story for a DLC that suggested a civilization might have developed a biological weapon based on the Crucible schematics. But what if the Crucible was never built to destroy the Reapers in the first place? What if it was originally built to erradicate different species based on their genetic makeup or their biochemical composition and then repurposed to try and destroy the Reapers? It might have happened that way but when it comes to the origins of this device we know nothing at all.

The Crucible's purpose was to destroy the Reapers, this is proven by the facts that it is a non-Reaper construct (or else the Catalyst would not have tried to eradicate it), Synthesis is the Catalyst's solution and Control only favoured by the indoctrinated, so these are both results of Reaper interference. I think that the function to control the Reapers was added over the cycles with its development by the reoccuring indoctrinated splinter groups. And since there is no part of the Crucible resembling Synthesis (unlike Control and Destroy) it is most likely that the required tech is all installed into the Citadel and just adapted to the Crucible, just like all the relevant tech for Control and Destroy are in the Crucible and it is only adapted to the Citadel.

OdanUrr wrote...

I rather think that Synthesis was prepared by the Catalyst over several cycles. It claims that it learned about the Crucible a few cycles ago, so it would make sense that this is the moment it realizes that the cycle may fail. It would also explain two other points: Synthesis uses the crucible, and the collectors did genetic research, it would mean they were checking if this cycle was ready for Synthesis (the Catalyst claims that former cycle's were not).

The Catalyst does state it had been pondering the matter for a while and even tried it in other cycles but it's all on the vague and generic side. And why should it think this cycle might fail? The Crucible must've been built before, even if not in its current form, and the Reapers are still around. And what about the Collectors? Presumably they did genetic research but what for is yet another lingering odd end from ME2, as was the "foreshadowing" about dark energy or why Harbinger needed Shepard alive. Maybe they were simply looking for the ideal species from which to build a Reaper? That seems far more likely.

So there is proof that the Catalyst has been working on Synthesis for a while, and we also know that it knew of the Crucible. No last-minute repurposing needed then, everything could be anticipated and prepared. And I did not say that it thought this cycle may fail, I mean the cycle as a whole. The reason to believe that is the existance of the Crucible, a device that does just that. And it was right. One way or another, the Cycle soon ends.

I theorized about the collector's role in all of that in another thread. Maybe you are right that they merely did genetic tests for Reaper species, although there are flaws in that theory, like they would only be interested in species with large populations and not in rare species at all. But that's a little off topic here.

[remydat]

If the Catalyst were trying to be deceive Shepard then it would not have told Shepard about the 3 options, it would have told Shep about one option and one option alone. Shepard did not work on the Crucible and he has no fu*king clue how it is suppose to defeat the Reapers. Not to mention isn't synthesis the option you get by walking straight ahead?

All the Catalyst has to do is tell Shepard walk straight into the beautiful white light and Shepard would have done it because at that point he is blown to pieces probably dying and doesn't have time to ponder if the Catalyst is being honest. Hell the Catalyst could have told him the white light of Synthesis was the way to destroy the Reaper if he was inclined to because again how would Shepard know the difference.

The Catalyst is merely giving you the options and what it believes based on it's opinion what the best option is. It doesn't mean that option is right or wrong because that is for you to decide based on your own morality.

[Vigilant111]

remydat wrote...

If the Catalyst were trying to be deceive Shepard then it would not have told Shepard about the 3 options, it would have told Shep about one option and one option alone. Shepard did not work on the Crucible and he has no fu*king clue how it is suppose to defeat the Reapers. Not to mention isn't synthesis the option you get by walking straight ahead?

All the Catalyst has to do is tell Shepard walk straight into the beautiful white light and Shepard would have done it because at that point he is blown to pieces probably dying and doesn't have time to ponder if the Catalyst is being honest. Hell the Catalyst could have told him the white light of Synthesis was the way to destroy the Reaper if he was inclined to because again how would Shepard know the difference.

The Catalyst is merely giving you the options and what it believes based on it's opinion what the best option is. It doesn't mean that option is right or wrong because that is for you to decide based on your own morality.

U r not very good at lying are you?

By presenting 3 options, especially destroy, the Catalyst earns itself a reputation of being reasonable and honest, that it was indeed trustworthy

And how do you know the Crucible only has 3 functions? There may be more, the Catalyst is just not telling you, just like the Catalyst is not telling you there is a refuse option pre-EC

[BlameTheTank]

Vigilant111 wrote...

remydat wrote...

If the Catalyst were trying to be deceive Shepard then it would not have told Shepard about the 3 options, it would have told Shep about one option and one option alone. Shepard did not work on the Crucible and he has no fu*king clue how it is suppose to defeat the Reapers. Not to mention isn't synthesis the option you get by walking straight ahead?

All the Catalyst has to do is tell Shepard walk straight into the beautiful white light and Shepard would have done it because at that point he is blown to pieces probably dying and doesn't have time to ponder if the Catalyst is being honest. Hell the Catalyst could have told him the white light of Synthesis was the way to destroy the Reaper if he was inclined to because again how would Shepard know the difference.

The Catalyst is merely giving you the options and what it believes based on it's opinion what the best option is. It doesn't mean that option is right or wrong because that is for you to decide based on your own morality.

U r not very good at lying are you?

By presenting 3 options, especially destroy, the Catalyst earns itself a reputation of being reasonable and honest, that it was indeed trustworthy

And how do you know the Crucible only has 3 functions? There may be more, the Catalyst is just not telling you, just like the Catalyst is not telling you there is a refuse option pre-EC

How does the Catalyst know what and how many functions there are when he just said that the Crucible changed him? He never used Crucible before, although it`s "little more than a power source" he couldn`t figure it out for billions of years, otherwise he would make synthesis ealier. And now somehow he can`t even launch his solution... what happened? We broke him? Poor kid...

[eddieoctane]

Argolas wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible

If a plant is a non-sentient organic, every VI, even every computer is non-sentient synthetic and those did help a great deal, for example Glyph. Also, the Geth possibly help in ME3, and we have no way of knowing how many synthetic species helped with the crucible in previous cycles. As we know, Synthetics are wiped out by the Reapers just like organics are, so it makes perfect sense.

Except the synthetics, who could very well be completely committed to coexistence with organics before the Reapers started meddling wit their iteration of the cycle, don't get preserved because their minds are deemed as unworthy of "ascention" because the Catalyst is the computer equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.



Now that I've had a year to think about it, though, what bothers me more than the illogical nature of synthesis is the implication that it could grant immortality for all. There's only a finite amount of available energy and raw materials. If synthesis ends aging and death as normal parts of life, you eventually have a grey goo-esque scenario. We break down every piece of space junk we can find just to put dinner on the table until soylent green (no pun intended) because the status quo. And even then, we will lilely end up with a system whose energy demands are greater than what is avilable. An immortal galaxy is ultimately unsustainable. If we get lucky, and I use that term loosely, the milky way species find a way to travel to other galaxies before we burn this one out. Although then, the synthesized species are just as dangerous to life in the rest of the universe as pure synthetics supposedly were to our own corner of the universe. Nothing like wiping out all life in the cosmos to give you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

[OdanUrr]

Vigilant111 wrote...

U r not very good at lying are you?

By presenting 3 options, especially destroy, the Catalyst earns itself a reputation of being reasonable and honest, that it was indeed trustworthy

And how do you know the Crucible only has 3 functions? There may be more, the Catalyst is just not telling you, just like the Catalyst is not telling you there is a refuse option pre-EC

Does it matter? If the Catalyst hadn't intervened, Shepard would've probably died without ever activating the Crucible.

[NeonFlux117]

To trust the Catalyst is taking a great leap of faith and requires a certain element of suspension of disbelief.

That's all I have to add.

[eddieoctane]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

To trust the Catalyst is taking a great leap of faith and requires a certain element an unacceptable amount of suspension of disbelief.

That's all I have to add.

And that's all I have to add.

[NeonFlux117]

eddieoctane wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

To trust the Catalyst is taking a great leap of faith and requires a certain element an unacceptable amount of suspension of disbelief.

That's all I have to add.

And that's all I have to add.

Well, it could be telling the truth...... From a certain point of view. 

[Xellith]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

To trust the Catalyst is taking a great leap of faith and requires a certain element an unacceptable amount of suspension of disbelief.

That's all I have to add.

And that's all I have to add.

Well, it could be telling the truth...... From a certain point of view. 

You never added to the original design (comment).  Your cycle failed!

[NeonFlux117]

Xellith wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

To trust the Catalyst is taking a great leap of faith and requires a certain element an unacceptable amount of suspension of disbelief.

That's all I have to add.

And that's all I have to add.

Well, it could be telling the truth...... From a certain point of view. 

You never added to the original design (comment).  Your cycle failed!

nah, there's always an entended cut verson. It'll fix everything :P:P

[Eshaye]

eddieoctane wrote...

Except the synthetics, who could very well be completely committed to coexistence with organics before the Reapers started meddling wit their iteration of the cycle, don't get preserved because their minds are deemed as unworthy of "ascention" because the Catalyst is the computer equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.



Now that I've had a year to think about it, though, what bothers me more than the illogical nature of synthesis is the implication that it could grant immortality for all. There's only a finite amount of available energy and raw materials. If synthesis ends aging and death as normal parts of life, you eventually have a grey goo-esque scenario. We break down every piece of space junk we can find just to put dinner on the table until soylent green (no pun intended) because the status quo. And even then, we will lilely end up with a system whose energy demands are greater than what is avilable. An immortal galaxy is ultimately unsustainable. If we get lucky, and I use that term loosely, the milky way species find a way to travel to other galaxies before we burn this one out. Although then, the synthesized species are just as dangerous to life in the rest of the universe as pure synthetics supposedly were to our own corner of the universe. Nothing like wiping out all life in the cosmos to give you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

Thank you for saying that better then I could, even if we could populate the galaxy to infinity eventually we would come across already populated worlds and what would we do then? I'll tell you what, we become the Reapers, maybe not exactly I don't imagine we'd harvest organics and put them in ships, but the end would be the same, we would have to take over somehow becoming pretty much exactly what we tried to stop. A giant devouring pest. 

[AxeloftheKey]

Why does Synthesis prevent forward evolution?

The Catalyst says it is the final evolution. That doesn't mean it is. Synthesized creatures can continue to upgrade themselves, both organically and mechanically, and evolve themselves. They can discover new things and progress. There's nothing stopping them.

[Sideria]

Yeah it's the final evolution of the current life (framework ).
But a new form of life is created is synthesis who can evolve.

[Phatose]

Eshaye wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Except the synthetics, who could very well be completely committed to coexistence with organics before the Reapers started meddling wit their iteration of the cycle, don't get preserved because their minds are deemed as unworthy of "ascention" because the Catalyst is the computer equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.



Now that I've had a year to think about it, though, what bothers me more than the illogical nature of synthesis is the implication that it could grant immortality for all. There's only a finite amount of available energy and raw materials. If synthesis ends aging and death as normal parts of life, you eventually have a grey goo-esque scenario. We break down every piece of space junk we can find just to put dinner on the table until soylent green (no pun intended) because the status quo. And even then, we will lilely end up with a system whose energy demands are greater than what is avilable. An immortal galaxy is ultimately unsustainable. If we get lucky, and I use that term loosely, the milky way species find a way to travel to other galaxies before we burn this one out. Although then, the synthesized species are just as dangerous to life in the rest of the universe as pure synthetics supposedly were to our own corner of the universe. Nothing like wiping out all life in the cosmos to give you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

Thank you for saying that better then I could, even if we could populate the galaxy to infinity eventually we would come across already populated worlds and what would we do then? I'll tell you what, we become the Reapers, maybe not exactly I don't imagine we'd harvest organics and put them in ships, but the end would be the same, we would have to take over somehow becoming pretty much exactly what we tried to stop. A giant devouring pest. 

The problem with that sentiment is very simple.  A mortal galaxy is also ultimately unsustainable.  Basic thermodynamics means there is nothing infinitely sustainable. 

[eddieoctane]

Phatose wrote...

*snip*

The problem with that sentiment is very simple.  A mortal galaxy is also ultimately unsustainable.  Basic thermodynamics means there is nothing infinitely sustainable. 

Heat death of the universe is a very different thing from causing a field to go barren. To begin with, we aren't even sure what the ultiamte fate of the universe might be. Dark energy could kickstart everything and avoid the issue of maximum entropy altogether. The universe could collapse on itself. In the end, the estimated timeframe for a possible heat death is so far into the distant future that the current age of the universe doesn;t even register. Existence itself is about 14,000,000,000 years old. Heat death is about 100,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000, 000,000,000,000 years away. (I would have used scientific notation, but I think the long form better makes my point.) We literally aren't even a drop in the bucket. In comparison, farmers regularly deal with land having all useable nutrients being absorbed from the soil. As of right now, for every human being on the planet to live the way the average American does, we need about a dozen more Earths. It's very possible to burn out a planet in a few thousand years after hitting our current level of advancement. An immortal and ever growing population would only do so faster. Synthesis is only going to screw over our galaxy if not the whole universe in the long run.

Modifié par eddieoctane, 21 mars 2013 - 04:09 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Synthesis was a idiotic idea anyway.

http://koobismo.devi...o-ME3-290828014

This comic perfectly explains why.

[Phatose]

An immortal, ever growing population would only do so faster does in fact imply that a mortal, ever growing population will do so as well, does it not?

The universe is already screwed over. There are a finite number of planets in the universe. The number of reachable planets without traversing to other galaxies - something even the reapers didn't apparently do - is much smaller.

Based on what we know of the ME universe, we've already reached a resource crunch. Humanity is out in the Attican Traverse and fighting with the Batarians cause there's no room in council space. And even there, the competition is already fierce.

Now, imagine the Reapers had lost the war in the last cycle. Or any of the thousands before them. Really, the only reason there are any resources left for us is because the space gods showed up every 50,000 years and killed everybody.

The galaxy is screwed because you defeated the reapers no matter which color you choose.  You just got rid of the only functional population control.

They're very much like the Shivans from Freespace in that respect.  The great preservers, salvation through destruction.  And really...they did in fact save humanity.  The only reason there wasn't anybody out there strong enough to annihilate humanity is because the Reapers had already killed them.

Modifié par Phatose, 21 mars 2013 - 04:25 .

[CosmicGnosis]

The original version of Synthesis was idiotic. The Extended Cut version is mostly fine; the biggest problem is that it uses very bizarre terms: the "new DNA" metaphor, the "final" evolution, and the organic energy term. There are ways of getting around these terms, though. "New DNA" is just an odd metaphor, "final evolution" refers to a transition to a completely new kind of existence, and "organic energy" is basically Shepard's mind (his essence).

Yes, I hate that Synthesis is loaded with so many weird terms, but I like the result. I don't know, maybe it does collapse under its own nonsensical weight.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 21 mars 2013 - 04:29 .

[Wayning_Star]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

The original version of Synthesis was idiotic. The Extended Cut version is mostly fine; the biggest problem is that it uses very bizarre terms: the "new DNA" metaphor, the "final" evolution, and the organic energy term. There are ways of getting around these terms, though. "New DNA" is just an odd metaphor, "final evolution" refers to a transition to a completely new kind of existence, and "organic energy" is basically Shepard's mind (his essence).

Yes, I hate that Synthesis is loaded with so many weird terms, but I like the result. I don't know, maybe it does collapse under its own nonsensical weight.

no more weird than, say Polymetamorphism , a study of time and pressure. Everything, even genes reflect some common trait. And, synthesis has no weight, so it cannot collapse on it's self, our logic can, when approaching the required mass.

All this talk of evolution, gene therapy and other 'beyond our comprehension' stuff got me thinking about diversity and the random atoms thing. It would seem that the cat wished to stop evolution, or at the least control it via the OP circle of life gizmo. But in the end, the variances and The Trouble With Tribbles aspect of existence, requires a look at the instances of pollution, cosmic ray interferences and other assorted altercation of gene altering properties of advanced technology and it's by products.

[remydat]

Vigilant111 wrote...

remydat wrote...

If the Catalyst were trying to be deceive Shepard then it would not have told Shepard about the 3 options, it would have told Shep about one option and one option alone. Shepard did not work on the Crucible and he has no fu*king clue how it is suppose to defeat the Reapers. Not to mention isn't synthesis the option you get by walking straight ahead?

All the Catalyst has to do is tell Shepard walk straight into the beautiful white light and Shepard would have done it because at that point he is blown to pieces probably dying and doesn't have time to ponder if the Catalyst is being honest. Hell the Catalyst could have told him the white light of Synthesis was the way to destroy the Reaper if he was inclined to because again how would Shepard know the difference.

The Catalyst is merely giving you the options and what it believes based on it's opinion what the best option is. It doesn't mean that option is right or wrong because that is for you to decide based on your own morality.

U r not very good at lying are you?

By presenting 3 options, especially destroy, the Catalyst earns itself a reputation of being reasonable and honest, that it was indeed trustworthy

And how do you know the Crucible only has 3 functions? There may be more, the Catalyst is just not telling you, just like the Catalyst is not telling you there is a refuse option pre-EC

You don't complicate things when you lie.  You keep it simple.  Telling Shepard walk to the light and it will activate the Crucible and kill the Reapers is simple.

Once again, Shepard has no f**king clue what the Crucible does or how it works.  He is alone and dying and if the Star Kid wanted to deceived the deception is simple.  Tell him he only has one option and tell him the option that you think he most desires.  Do you think as the Galaxy burns and Shepard is disoriented and dying he is in any position to figure out the truth.  Even if he notices the other two options, what the f**k is he going to do?  He has no clue what red or blue means because whover built the thing didn't bother to leave an instruction manual.  Furthermore, he would have to limp his dying a** all the way down two separate corridors while the galaxy burns just to get there and realise there is not ****ing instruction manual.  Take to long and it is too late and the Reapers continue the harvest.

And he doesn't tell him the refuse option because that is implicit.  Obviously if you do nothing, the Reapers will continue the harvest so why the f**k would that need to be said?  That is all the more reason to tell him only one option because then he is most likely to either walk into the white light thinking it is destroy when it is really synethesis or refuse and the harvest continues both of which are wins for the Catalyst.  Or do you think he would notice the read and blue have enough time to go inspect both before refuse automatically kicks in and then decide the fact of the universe based on which color he likes best since he has no f**king clue which one is the option he wants, lol

So no trying to deceive Shepard by telling him exactly how the three buttons work is not a deception.  It is f**king stupid if that is your intent because if Shepard has his heart set on Destroy then nothing Star Kid says would sway him.  Star Kid is smart enough to know organics sometimes don't listen to reason.  So Star Kid is being honest and merely giving his honest opinion of the options from his perspective. Doesn't mean his opinion is the correct on.

Modifié par remydat, 21 mars 2013 - 06:21 .

[remydat]

eddieoctane wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

One problem....synthetics didn't help create the Crucible

If a plant is a non-sentient organic, every VI, even every computer is non-sentient synthetic and those did help a great deal, for example Glyph. Also, the Geth possibly help in ME3, and we have no way of knowing how many synthetic species helped with the crucible in previous cycles. As we know, Synthetics are wiped out by the Reapers just like organics are, so it makes perfect sense.

Except the synthetics, who could very well be completely committed to coexistence with organics before the Reapers started meddling wit their iteration of the cycle, don't get preserved because their minds are deemed as unworthy of "ascention" because the Catalyst is the computer equivalent of Clayton Bigsby.



Now that I've had a year to think about it, though, what bothers me more than the illogical nature of synthesis is the implication that it could grant immortality for all. There's only a finite amount of available energy and raw materials. If synthesis ends aging and death as normal parts of life, you eventually have a grey goo-esque scenario. We break down every piece of space junk we can find just to put dinner on the table until soylent green (no pun intended) because the status quo. And even then, we will lilely end up with a system whose energy demands are greater than what is avilable. An immortal galaxy is ultimately unsustainable. If we get lucky, and I use that term loosely, the milky way species find a way to travel to other galaxies before we burn this one out. Although then, the synthesized species are just as dangerous to life in the rest of the universe as pure synthetics supposedly were to our own corner of the universe. Nothing like wiping out all life in the cosmos to give you that warm, fuzzy feeling.

All that will happen is people will either kill each other as there is nothing to suggest a bullet to the head will not result in death which precisely what they did when they were just organic and had to deal with the finite resources of their clan, country, or planet.

Or with their new intelligence and sense of belonging since everyone is a hybrid, they figure out a way to traverse to another galaxy or at a minimum communicate with another galaxy which probably is also inhabited with space.  The universe has trillions of stars and gazallions of planets rotating around them.  I don't care how long they live, they would have to be pretty f**king stupid to burn those resources up in anything under a million years.  

Furthermore, I am pretty sure it has been stated that we could feed the world quite easily if we had distributed things in equal measure.  Those donate 5 cents a day to feed a child are really not that far off in terms of what it would take if we weren't so self-centered and eat ourselves to obsesity while others started.  Organics live in incredibly inefficient societies because we have hierarchies, conflict, prejudice, greed, and other human vices.

This is the one beneift of being part synthetic.  The consensus is fully democratic where everyone gets a vote and majority wins.  Among the Geth and without the Reapers, there was no real sense of conflict, murder, or other social ills.  So perhaps with people now seeing the value in everyone's opinion and with social ills virtually non-existent you will have an almost 100% efficient distribution of resources.

Modifié par remydat, 21 mars 2013 - 06:39 .

[Argolas]

remydat wrote...

You don't complicate things when you lie.  You keep it simple.  Telling Shepard walk to the light and it will activate the Crucible and kill the Reapers is simple.

Once again, Shepard has no f**king clue what the Crucible does or how it works.  He is alone and dying and if the Star Kid wanted to deceived the deception is simple.  Tell him he only has one option and tell him the option that you think he most desires.  Do you think as the Galaxy burns and Shepard is disoriented and dying he is in any position to figure out the truth.  Even if he notices the other two options, what the f**k is he going to do?  He has no clue what red or blue means because whover built the thing didn't bother to leave an instruction manual.  Furthermore, he would have to limp his dying a** all the way down two separate corridors while the galaxy burns just to get there and realise there is not ****ing instruction manual.  Take to long and it is too late and the Reapers continue the harvest.

And he doesn't tell him the refuse option because that is implicit.  Obviously if you do nothing, the Reapers will continue the harvest so why the f**k would that need to be said?  That is all the more reason to tell him only one option because then he is most likely to either walk into the white light thinking it is destroy when it is really synethesis or refuse and the harvest continues both of which are wins for the Catalyst.  Or do you think he would notice the read and blue have enough time to go inspect both before refuse automatically kicks in and then decide the fact of the universe based on which color he likes best since he has no f**king clue which one is the option he wants, lol

So no trying to deceive Shepard by telling him exactly how the three buttons work is not a deception.  It is f**king stupid if that is your intent because if Shepard has his heart set on Destroy then nothing Star Kid says would sway him.  Star Kid is smart enough to know organics sometimes don't listen to reason.  So Star Kid is being honest and merely giving his honest opinion of the options from his perspective. Doesn't mean his opinion is the correct on.

The Catalyst is not lying or we would have to invalidate everything it says. I take for granted here that its description of Synthesis is right what happens or everything would be wild speculation, as I said the Catalyst's word is the only explanation of Synthesis that we have at all. That does not mean the Catalyst is not trying to convince us of one option.

[remydat]

Argolas wrote...

remydat wrote...

You don't complicate things when you lie.  You keep it simple.  Telling Shepard walk to the light and it will activate the Crucible and kill the Reapers is simple.

Once again, Shepard has no f**king clue what the Crucible does or how it works.  He is alone and dying and if the Star Kid wanted to deceived the deception is simple.  Tell him he only has one option and tell him the option that you think he most desires.  Do you think as the Galaxy burns and Shepard is disoriented and dying he is in any position to figure out the truth.  Even if he notices the other two options, what the f**k is he going to do?  He has no clue what red or blue means because whover built the thing didn't bother to leave an instruction manual.  Furthermore, he would have to limp his dying a** all the way down two separate corridors while the galaxy burns just to get there and realise there is not ****ing instruction manual.  Take to long and it is too late and the Reapers continue the harvest.

And he doesn't tell him the refuse option because that is implicit.  Obviously if you do nothing, the Reapers will continue the harvest so why the f**k would that need to be said?  That is all the more reason to tell him only one option because then he is most likely to either walk into the white light thinking it is destroy when it is really synethesis or refuse and the harvest continues both of which are wins for the Catalyst.  Or do you think he would notice the read and blue have enough time to go inspect both before refuse automatically kicks in and then decide the fact of the universe based on which color he likes best since he has no f**king clue which one is the option he wants, lol

So no trying to deceive Shepard by telling him exactly how the three buttons work is not a deception.  It is f**king stupid if that is your intent because if Shepard has his heart set on Destroy then nothing Star Kid says would sway him.  Star Kid is smart enough to know organics sometimes don't listen to reason.  So Star Kid is being honest and merely giving his honest opinion of the options from his perspective. Doesn't mean his opinion is the correct on.

The Catalyst is not lying or we would have to invalidate everything it says. I take for granted here that its description of Synthesis is right what happens or everything would be wild speculation, as I said the Catalyst's word is the only explanation of Synthesis that we have at all. That does not mean the Catalyst is not trying to convince us of one option.

I agree.  That response was to a poster who said it was trying to deceive you.  The Catalyst like any sentient being has an opinion.  It gives you 3 options and based on it's opinion, it thinks Synthesis is an option.  You are free to chose whichever one you like.