99 réponses à ce sujet

[jsachun]

phordicus wrote...

Frozeal wrote...
Also add the replay value.
Imho, not bad price, it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.

it's not a money issue, but what replay value?  it's too short for anything other than a few lines of dialog and there are zero significant choices made.

 It'll be worth it for XP & Loot. That I can assume.

[pureE17]

Only problem with it tho is that iv played the game about 5times now and im bored of it and with the new side quest coming out i dont really wanna play the game again just to play this side quest ect..

[Frozeal]

phordicus wrote...

Frozeal wrote...
Also add the replay value.
Imho, not bad price, it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.

it's not a money issue, but what replay value?  it's too short for anything other than a few lines of dialog and there are zero significant choices made.

Replay value has, even if it's only some minutes you can do it more than one time, with different characters, different story etc. and the price is not high, not low neither, I think it's ok, I mean it's just 5 dollars

[FlintlockJazz]

Frozeal wrote...

phordicus wrote...

Frozeal wrote...
Also add the replay value.
Imho, not bad price, it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.

it's not a money issue, but what replay value?  it's too short for anything other than a few lines of dialog and there are zero significant choices made.

Replay value has, even if it's only some minutes you can do it more than one time, with different characters, different story etc. and the price is not high, not low neither, I think it's ok, I mean it's just 5 dollars

But if it plays out the same regardless of what type of character you play then it doesn't really have more replay than a film.  In fact, I'd say some films have greater replay value than some games, Fight Club for instance (as you really need to watch it at least twice to truly appreciate it).

pureE17 wrote...

Only problem with it tho is that iv
played the game about 5times now and im bored of it and with the new
side quest coming out i dont really wanna play the game again just to
play this side quest ect..

This is why I think dlc campaign modules would be great, separate from the main campaign.

[Frozeal]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Frozeal wrote...

phordicus wrote...

Frozeal wrote...
Also add the replay value.
Imho, not bad price, it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.

it's not a money issue, but what replay value?  it's too short for anything other than a few lines of dialog and there are zero significant choices made.

Replay value has, even if it's only some minutes you can do it more than one time, with different characters, different story etc. and the price is not high, not low neither, I think it's ok, I mean it's just 5 dollars

But if it plays out the same regardless of what type of character you play then it doesn't really have more replay than a film.  In fact, I'd say some films have greater replay value than some games, Fight Club for instance (as you really need to watch it at least twice to truly appreciate it).

pureE17 wrote...

Only problem with it tho is that iv
played the game about 5times now and im bored of it and with the new
side quest coming out i dont really wanna play the game again just to
play this side quest ect..

This is why I think dlc campaign modules would be great, separate from the main campaign.

Yeah, but freedom in a game is not the same as watching a movie, for example the so criticized Warden's Keep, you can goo with a mage or a warrior and it has some difference regarding the skills.
And I insist, it's only 5 dollars you know? How much cheaper do you want it? May be they should only launch bigger DLC of minimum 3 hours gameplay, that way it's going to look as a more serious DLC... oh and also respect the schedules and not being so irresponsible to say 5 minutes before the deadline that it's going to be delayed...

[Jaymo147]

TheDrunkenPanda wrote...

Gotta say, this is sort of reminding me of Bethseda and their DLC shenanigans...

`Beth actually released them though....

[leinadon]

Decho the Dolphin wrote...

@lisakover: Actually RTO, at 400 Microsoft points, costs £3.33, based on standard rate of £17.50 for 2100 points. That equates to $5.42, just so you know.

As regards to value of RTO - I always compare to cinema prices when working out value. RTO is about half the price of a cinema ticket, which is normally good for about two hours. As such, I would expect at least an hour of entertainment out of RTO. Playing through it once, it is clear that there is significantly less than this, but with multiple play-throughs I think that it will probably just about prove its worth.

Yeah is the most accurate way to calculate a good price for a videogame to compare it with cinema, if i have been 60 hours to finnish the game i can pay 300$ for the vanila game:O... oh wait...

Modifié par leinadon, 14 janvier 2010 - 12:10 .

[dan107]

Lol, I was actually thinking the same thing as the OP. Bioware has to determine the LEAST amount that a DLC can possibly sell for their budgeting projections at some point, so what better way to do so than release ridiculously short, overpriced content after thoroughly jerking around the community and pissing people off as much as they possibly can?

[BTA1]

Well, at least I've learned to never buy points before the product is out. If I hadn't bought those points allready I would not buy the DLC.

[leinadon]

dan107 wrote...

Lol, I was actually thinking the same thing as the OP. Bioware has to determine the LEAST amount that a DLC can possibly sell for their budgeting projections at some point, so what better way to do so than release ridiculously short, overpriced content after thoroughly jerking around the community and pissing people off as much as they possibly can?

Yeah, they know that the player base is just stupid (thats a fact) and not only will pay 5 bucks for a 30 mins crap side quest, they will defend the company with fierece, so yeah, i will do the same if i was a sales manager of Bioware

[FlintlockJazz]

Frozeal wrote...
Yeah, but freedom in a game is not the same as watching a movie, for example the so criticized Warden's Keep, you can goo with a mage or a warrior and it has some difference regarding the skills.
And I insist, it's only 5 dollars you know? How much cheaper do you want it? May be they should only launch bigger DLC of minimum 3 hours gameplay, that way it's going to look as a more serious DLC... oh and also respect the schedules and not being so irresponsible to say 5 minutes before the deadline that it's going to be delayed...

I would love a 3 hour campaign, especially if the campaign varied widely depending on how you played!

[Phex]

While I'm not hating BioWare on all this, I do wonder how much grey hair the developers are going to get when DAO:Awakening gets closer to their release date and I'm pretty convinced that one will be delayed by quite a few weeks as well.

[Adaram]

jsachun wrote...

I think they should've charged more & got technically proficient people to work on it.

That's not fair and not nice either.  You don't even know what the problem was or where it originated.  Be nice!

[Decho the Dolphin]

leinadon wrote...
Yeah is the most accurate way to calculate a good price for a videogame to compare it with cinema, if i have been 60 hours to finnish the game i can pay 300$ for the vanila game:O... oh wait...

Or you could simply deduce that it was good value...

[Lord Phoebus]

DLC is a strange animal, the people who buy it would probably pay 10$ for an extra item, and those who wouldn't buy it even it was 2.50$ for a half hour of content. If they are charging 5$ for RTO they are probably undercharging, since more than half the people who would pay 5$ for it would pay 10$ as well, while if they dropped the price they probably wouldn't get a considerable increase in sales unless the price dropped to under a dollar. I would guess that the sales(price) function is almost a heaviside function for this stuff.

And movies are horribly overpriced, so you really shouldn't compare games to them, I really hope games never reach the rampant levels of inflation that movies have.   Maybe books or TV should be your comparison point.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:13 .

[Elvhen Veluthil]

I see it more as a Jigsaw puzzle test. While some of the Biowarian people were busy the last years to make the console versions, the rest of them where thinking what they could take out of ( the almost done) PC version and sell it later as DLC. So they took out this and that, made some additions here and there, and now they are trying to put everything back together. It's not working as they had planned it seems. I think the god of the RPG's is taking his vengeance for porting the game in consoles and putting achievements in it.

Modifié par Elvhen Veluthil, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:11 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I don't believe in this stress theory. However, I do believe that they can get away with any crap they release. Stupid fans like me will buy it anyway.



I have already changed my mind for the next DLC, though: I won't buy anymore BW points until the DLC is actually released and I won't buy any DLC before they release patches that actually address the issues that the players like to see fixed. I really doubt that BW is planning patches that do that, though. I should I have looked at ME1 and how they got away with bad patch support in that game. I should have learned my lesson then. Sigh.

[Valmy]

While things have probably not gone how Bioware intended or wanted them to the delay has only been a few weeks. Hardly worth giving it a second thought much less getting all emo over. I don't get why people are flipping out. It is a nice minor adventure that will be out any day now and will be here when it is here. What is the big deal again?

[SheffSteel]

I think simpler explanations are sufficient.

It's far more likely that the delay of RtO is due to it being new than with it being something old that they're trying to re-integrate with the game.

It's also more likely that BW are charging $5 because they think that gives the best return.

I opened a poll when RtO was announced - as was the price - and the results look pretty much like this:-
8% won't buy DLC on principle
15% won't buy RtO because it is not a full expansion
23% won't buy RtO because they were unhappy with Warden's Keep and RtO doesn't look to be better value
17% will buy RtO assuming it isn't obviously much worse value than Warden's Keep
37% will buy RtO because they want to support Bioware and Dragon Age
So around 54% are likely to buy RtO at the price of $5, and of those who said they wouldn't, only about half would consider buying it at a lower price. With those numbers, it doesn't make sense to try cutting the price to chase down those extra customers.

(The poll is at http://social.biowar...9460/polls/701/)

Modifié par SheffSteel, 14 janvier 2010 - 02:53 .

[Lord Phoebus]

SheffSteel wrote...

I think simpler explanations are sufficient.

It's far more likely that the delay of RtO is due to it being new than with it being something old that they're trying to re-integrate with the game.

It's also more likely that BW are charging $5 because they think that gives the best return.

I opened a poll when RtO was announced - as was the price - and the results look pretty much like this:-
8% won't buy DLC on principle
15% won't buy RtO because it is not a full expansion
23% won't buy RtO because they were unhappy with Warden's Keep and RtO doesn't look to be better value
17% will buy RtO assuming it isn't obviously much worse value than Warden's Keep
37% will buy RtO because they want to support Bioware and Dragon Age
So around 54% are likely to buy RtO at the price of $5, and of those who said they wouldn't, only about half would consider buying it at a lower price. With those numbers, it doesn't make sense to try cutting the price to chase down those extra customers.

(The poll is at http://social.biowar...9460/polls/701/)

Hmm, though it looks like 69% of those who would buy it don't really care about the price so they probably should mark it up a bit more if they want to max their profit.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 14 janvier 2010 - 09:58 .

[CptPatch]

I believe that the one salient point BioWare (or more likely, EA) has learned from all this is that there are nowhere near enough consumers disgruntled enough to organize a boycott.  A few hundred disgruntled _individuals_ is nothing for them to be concerned about.  A few hundred that actively seek each other out with the intent of MAKING A LOT OF NOISE _could_ inspire others to join them.  When it starts to look like they might lose tens of thousands of potential sales -- to not just DA:O, but other games as well -- THEN they will start to energetically address complaints to try to salvage their PR image.

The second thing they've learned is: For most people, $5 is pocket change.  Most serious DAO players would actually be willing to toss that much money for NO quest at all.  Just a neat sword like Starfang would be enough for them to part with that little bit of cash.

The second point is actually dangerous to the quality and cost of your future games.  The game is pointedly solo, BUT with _a lot_ of online connectivity.

Do a little math quiz here: Using RtO as a benchmark (gameplay = 30 minutes = $5), if you took DAO and parsed it out, how many RtO units would you have? About 120 maybe?  Times $5 = DAO would cost $600.

Now, upon seeing a $600 price tag, you go, "No way!!!!"  Nobody is biting.  BUT.....

Suppose DAO had been released at a $30 price tag, but with about 80 of those small subquests left out.  (Which you wouldn't know they had been left out because approaching the game cold, you wouldn't have known what might have been included.)  So you think, "$30; I can dig that."  And you start playing DAO and you're seriously loving it (when it isn't annoying you with some quirk).  And now you are made aware that, "If you want to expand your DAO experience, you can add on these fine DLCs, only $5 each!"  Wow.  _80_ of them.  That's $400!  But that's only if buy them all at once.  So you rationalize to yourself, "It's only half the cost of a movie ticket for a movie that I might not actually enjoy that much.  I _am_ enjoying DAO, though.  Maybe I'll just spring for the Broken Circle DLCs.  That's only...."

Then later, you convince yourself to buy the Paragon of Her Kind DLCs.  And then the Urn of Sacred Ashes DLCs.  And then.....

Maybe you _don't_ buy all 80 of the subquest DLCs. But just look at BioWare's/EA's Profit & Loss statement.  Instead of getting $60 per unit, they're getting $30 PLUS $5 + $5 + $5 .......  The average in the end would be closer to >$100, I practically guarantee it.  FURTHERMORE, it keeps people playing the game for _much_ longer than most buy-it/beat-it/move-on-to-next-game games.  Players would be "freshening up" the game by adding new, unfamiliar content, so a year from know DAO is _still_ a heavily played game.  Especially if they're smart enough to keep augmenting the DLC selection with another new DLC every few weeks.

All that is necessary is to get the consumers used to buying a base game and regularly adding DLC content.

And if this marketing strategy works well for BioWare/EA, how long before all the other manufacturers start to follow suit?

[SheffSteel]

IF Bioware want to experiment with stripping out gameplay and selling it separately, I don't see the problem. They might already have done so, of course, but how would you know? The only things you have to go on are the amount of gameplay and the price tag of the retail game, which looks like great value for money compared with most others.

Even if EA were up front about this with DA2, say, dividing up the total content so that it came to $100 instead of $60... so what? People who are bad at arithmetic will always lose out, and this is small potatoes compared to car finance terms, personal loans, lottery tickets, mobile phone plans, mortgage deals...

Modifié par SheffSteel, 14 janvier 2010 - 09:41 .

[CptPatch]

SheffSteel wrote...

IF Bioware want to experiment with stripping out gameplay and selling it separately, I don't see the problem. They might already have done so, of course, but how would you know? The only things you have to go on are the amount of gameplay and the price tag of the retail game, which looks like great value for money compared with most others.

Even if EA were up front about this with DA2, say, dividing up the total content so that it came to $100 instead of $60... so what? People who are bad at arithmetic will always lose out, and this is small potatoes compared to car finance terms, personal loans, lottery tickets, mobile phone plans, mortgage deals...

Must be nice to not need to budget money for your entertainment.

Let me reiterate:
"I believe that the one salient point BioWare (or more likely, EA) has
learned from all this is that there are nowhere near enough consumers
disgruntled enough to organize a boycott.  A few hundred disgruntled
_individuals_ is nothing for them to be concerned about.  A few hundred
that actively seek each other out with the intent of
MAKING A LOT OF NOISE _could_ inspire others to join them.  When it
starts to look like they might lose tens of thousands of potential
sales -- to not just DA:O, but other games as well -- THEN they will
start to energetically address complaints to try to salvage their PR
image."

If anything, consumers that evince a "So what?" attitude such as yours pretty much assures that sooner, rather than later, we will ALL be paying _much_ more for our favorite pastime.

[SheffSteel]

CptPatch wrote...

If anything, consumers that evince a "So what?" attitude such as yours pretty much assures that sooner, rather than later, we will ALL be paying _much_ more for our favorite pastime.

I doubt it, considering I haven't bought any DLC.

[CptPatch]

SheffSteel wrote...

CptPatch wrote...

If anything, consumers that evince a "So what?" attitude such as yours pretty much assures that sooner, rather than later, we will ALL be paying _much_ more for our favorite pastime.

I doubt it, considering I haven't bought any DLC.

Ah, excuse me.  I forgot to add, "....or gaming less than we do now."

If the DLC trend persists, the root games will start to have less initial content (but at a lower price, if we're lucky).  Sort of like getting DA:O for $30-35, but the content would be just the core quest w/o the scores of minor quests.  You will, of course, have the option to NOT purchase DLC.  You'll just have to get used to your games being "skinnier" than they are now.

***************
Heard tell that Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (which I understand sells for $60) can be completed in about 10 hours.  And despite the slim content AND stiff price tag, it's had over a BILLION dollars in sales
[ http://www.hookedgam..._worldwide.html ]

Now if that doesn't tell developers "Do NOT waste your resources stuffing in worthwhile content!  Customers WILL buy whatever you put in front of them!", that should do the trick.

I am sooooooo glad I've only got a couple more years left in me before they put me in the ground.  I don't think my butt could take much more of the involuntary penetrations this industry keeps giving us.

Modifié par CptPatch, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:34 .