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RtO = market test?


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#51
LDB10671

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CptPatch wrote...

This is more about Marketing than it is about RtO, so don't start ragging about, "Not _another_ RtO thread!"

Look at all of the grief that has occurred in regards to the RtO release. 

From those that have played it, it sounds like a 30-minute quest -- for $5.

Now compare that to Soldiers' Peak/Wardens' Keep for $7.

It's hard to imagine
A) The production and distribution being screwed up _worse_ than it already is.  Yet, people ARE expecting even more screwups.
B) Less Bang For The Buck.  30 minutes?  For $5

Could all this actually be Market Research?  Trying to see whether enough people will _still_ buy product, even after one foul up after another.  To see whether or not the resentment for poor/non-performance would ever get dangerously close to a possible consumer boycott.  Or to establish that consumer complaints can actually be totally ignored because even after MANY problems, the customers will STILL throw money at the company.

And just what IS the least amount of content that consumers will accept for the nominal price of $5?  Is this to get us all to the point of, "It's a new month and we now have a NEW sub-quest for you for _only_ $5!"?  Imagine if instead of bundling in the umpteen dozen sub-quests, each had been released as a DLC at $5 a pop.  Instead of $60 for the complete game, it would turn into $200!  Such a prospect has a LOT of appeal to a for-profit company.  And Wardens' Keep and Return to Ostagar may very will have been a testing of the waters.

Mini-DLCs: the wave of the future!


I agree completely and 100%.

I'll wait for a patch to fix the bugs before i support anymore of their over priced, severely content lacking, DLC's

#52
Frozeal

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CptPatch wrote...

I believe that the one salient point BioWare (or more likely, EA) has learned from all this is that there are nowhere near enough consumers disgruntled enough to organize a boycott.  A few hundred disgruntled _individuals_ is nothing for them to be concerned about.  A few hundred that actively seek each other out with the intent of MAKING A LOT OF NOISE _could_ inspire others to join them.  When it starts to look like they might lose tens of thousands of potential sales -- to not just DA:O, but other games as well -- THEN they will start to energetically address complaints to try to salvage their PR image.

The second thing they've learned is: For most people, $5 is pocket change.  Most serious DAO players would actually be willing to toss that much money for NO quest at all.  Just a neat sword like Starfang would be enough for them to part with that little bit of cash.

The second point is actually dangerous to the quality and cost of your future games.  The game is pointedly solo, BUT with _a lot_ of online connectivity.

Do a little math quiz here: Using RtO as a benchmark (gameplay = 30 minutes = $5), if you took DAO and parsed it out, how many RtO units would you have? About 120 maybe?  Times $5 = DAO would cost $600.

Now, upon seeing a $600 price tag, you go, "No way!!!!"  Nobody is biting.  BUT.....

Suppose DAO had been released at a $30 price tag, but with about 80 of those small subquests left out.  (Which you wouldn't know they had been left out because approaching the game cold, you wouldn't have known what might have been included.)  So you think, "$30; I can dig that."  And you start playing DAO and you're seriously loving it (when it isn't annoying you with some quirk).  And now you are made aware that, "If you want to expand your DAO experience, you can add on these fine DLCs, only $5 each!"  Wow.  _80_ of them.  That's $400!  But that's only if buy them all at once.  So you rationalize to yourself, "It's only half the cost of a movie ticket for a movie that I might not actually enjoy that much.  I _am_ enjoying DAO, though.  Maybe I'll just spring for the Broken Circle DLCs.  That's only...."

Then later, you convince yourself to buy the Paragon of Her Kind DLCs.  And then the Urn of Sacred Ashes DLCs.  And then.....

Maybe you _don't_ buy all 80 of the subquest DLCs. But just look at BioWare's/EA's Profit & Loss statement.  Instead of getting $60 per unit, they're getting $30 PLUS $5 + $5 + $5 .......  The average in the end would be closer to >$100, I practically guarantee it.  FURTHERMORE, it keeps people playing the game for _much_ longer than most buy-it/beat-it/move-on-to-next-game games.  Players would be "freshening up" the game by adding new, unfamiliar content, so a year from know DAO is _still_ a heavily played game.  Especially if they're smart enough to keep augmenting the DLC selection with another new DLC every few weeks.

All that is necessary is to get the consumers used to buying a base game and regularly adding DLC content.

And if this marketing strategy works well for BioWare/EA, how long before all the other manufacturers start to follow suit?

You sire are the most propedeutic person I've ever read in this forum. Nicely put the point.

1 internet for you.

#53
LDB10671

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SheffSteel wrote...

I think simpler explanations are sufficient.

It's far more likely that the delay of RtO is due to it being new than with it being something old that they're trying to re-integrate with the game.

It's also more likely that BW are charging $5 because they think that gives the best return.

I opened a poll when RtO was announced - as was the price - and the results look pretty much like this:-
8% won't buy DLC on principle
15% won't buy RtO because it is not a full expansion
23% won't buy RtO because they were unhappy with Warden's Keep and RtO doesn't look to be better value
17% will buy RtO assuming it isn't obviously much worse value than Warden's Keep
37% will buy RtO because they want to support Bioware and Dragon Age
So around 54% are likely to buy RtO at the price of $5, and of those who said they wouldn't, only about half would consider buying it at a lower price. With those numbers, it doesn't make sense to try cutting the price to chase down those extra customers.

(The poll is at http://social.biowar...9460/polls/701/)


46% won't buy the DLC.
17% may or may not.
37% will.

It appears a majority of people are unhappy and wont be supporting any further DLC or expansions.


I will say this though. I hate EA and I still keep buying their game's. They must have one hell of a marketing and advertising department's.

Modifié par LDB10671, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:49 .


#54
Flintyx

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I've never written in a forum before. But I've enjoyed reading this so much, I just had to make a comment. I'm relieved that there are people in this world, that I have never met in my life, that can sustain a civil and thought provoking conversation about one of my favorite vices (RPGs).



Sure there have been funny comments on the other forums and just some idiotic behavior, but this forum, I believe, is why forums exist and I hope that the friendly people at bioware, take notice that a conversation can last 3 pages without any terrible behavior by ANYONE posting.








#55
TheMadCat

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CptPatch wrote...

I believe that the one salient point BioWare (or more likely, EA) has learned from all this is that there are nowhere near enough consumers disgruntled enough to organize a boycott.  A few hundred disgruntled _individuals_ is nothing for them to be concerned about.  A few hundred that actively seek each other out with the intent of MAKING A LOT OF NOISE _could_ inspire others to join them.  When it starts to look like they might lose tens of thousands of potential sales -- to not just DA:O, but other games as well -- THEN they will start to energetically address complaints to try to salvage their PR image.

The second thing they've learned is: For most people, $5 is pocket change.  Most serious DAO players would actually be willing to toss that much money for NO quest at all.  Just a neat sword like Starfang would be enough for them to part with that little bit of cash.

The second point is actually dangerous to the quality and cost of your future games.  The game is pointedly solo, BUT with _a lot_ of online connectivity.

Do a little math quiz here: Using RtO as a benchmark (gameplay = 30 minutes = $5), if you took DAO and parsed it out, how many RtO units would you have? About 120 maybe?  Times $5 = DAO would cost $600.

Now, upon seeing a $600 price tag, you go, "No way!!!!"  Nobody is biting.  BUT.....

Suppose DAO had been released at a $30 price tag, but with about 80 of those small subquests left out.  (Which you wouldn't know they had been left out because approaching the game cold, you wouldn't have known what might have been included.)  So you think, "$30; I can dig that."  And you start playing DAO and you're seriously loving it (when it isn't annoying you with some quirk).  And now you are made aware that, "If you want to expand your DAO experience, you can add on these fine DLCs, only $5 each!"  Wow.  _80_ of them.  That's $400!  But that's only if buy them all at once.  So you rationalize to yourself, "It's only half the cost of a movie ticket for a movie that I might not actually enjoy that much.  I _am_ enjoying DAO, though.  Maybe I'll just spring for the Broken Circle DLCs.  That's only...."

Then later, you convince yourself to buy the Paragon of Her Kind DLCs.  And then the Urn of Sacred Ashes DLCs.  And then.....

Maybe you _don't_ buy all 80 of the subquest DLCs. But just look at BioWare's/EA's Profit & Loss statement.  Instead of getting $60 per unit, they're getting $30 PLUS $5 + $5 + $5 .......  The average in the end would be closer to >$100, I practically guarantee it.  FURTHERMORE, it keeps people playing the game for _much_ longer than most buy-it/beat-it/move-on-to-next-game games.  Players would be "freshening up" the game by adding new, unfamiliar content, so a year from know DAO is _still_ a heavily played game.  Especially if they're smart enough to keep augmenting the DLC selection with another new DLC every few weeks.

All that is necessary is to get the consumers used to buying a base game and regularly adding DLC content.

And if this marketing strategy works well for BioWare/EA, how long before all the other manufacturers start to follow suit?


I see a lot of maybes, supposes, and hypothetical's in your post there. You also seem to derive a lot of stuff that is very subjective in nature, value of entertainment based products cannot be classified and examined solely from a longevity point of view. Really your posting your worst nightmare rather then basing things off of facts.

Here's my problem with your idea. Businesses are always there to maximize their business, to maximize profits through peak pricing. If what you were saying is indeed a direction the industry is heading don't you think we would have seen signs, trial runs, things of that nature. Don't you think if this was indeed viable the thousands of marketing directors and business analysts in the industry whose sole job is to find to premier way to turn a profit without alienating the majority of their customer base would be pushing for this change and we would have seen something different rather then almost the same strategy for the past 7 years? Like I said your theory seems to revolve around your personal nightmare of a worst case scenario then any practicality.

#56
Flintyx

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conspiracy theory's are fun specially when they can be justified, but i would that bioware and ea and edge of reality and microsoft (did i cover them all). i would hope these company's would have a better strategy to conduct tests than this debacle. like maybe some beta testing to the people that are members of bioware.com and some random sample of people on each platform, that own the game and have logged on a good amount of hours.


#57
Looper128

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CptPatch wrote...

From those that have played it, it sounds like a 30-minute quest -- for $5.


It was about 30 min yes

#58
Flintyx

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lopper, in your opinion was it worth it



.... sorry for the picture and if someone would like to briefly instruct me on how to change it, i would appreciate it

#59
Looper128

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Flintyx wrote...

lopper, in your opinion was it worth it

.... sorry for the picture and if someone would like to briefly instruct me on how to change it, i would appreciate it


No I'm afraid it wasent.

#60
Flintyx

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was the mission at least fun

#61
PanosSmirnakos

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And don't forget the in-game merchants who "sell" the DLCs. That was a weird experience for me when I was playing. Definitely took me by surprise. Maybe this was a small glimpse to the future of video games. Kinda scary.

#62
Bibdy

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You can't be serious. Talk about the biggest risk-taking marketing gambit in human history.

Reminds me of the 'Cartman Method' of business in that South Park episode about the theme park.

#63
Flintyx

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If they are doing market testing then at least we're giving them feedback for their test.......this is to anyone thinking this is getting off topic. after hearing this i am more hesitant to buy this. i might just wait till awakening and if they make it worth my while then, i'll probably purchase this dlc. but until then, i guess i'm just someone who will not be a statistic for market testing.

#64
Looper128

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Flintyx wrote...

was the mission at least fun


It was fun to play some more dragon age and you got a cupple of nice items. It was nothing special though Wardens keep and the Stone prisionair was better by far. I kinda got the feeling that they stressed this one. Oh and the kings armor wasent as shiny as when you first saw him in it. :(

#65
spiderfarmer

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Frozeal wrote... it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.



:police:Ok...look...no matter what happens...Don't smoke $5.00 cigars.  Good god.  There are decency laws.  Yeesh.

#66
BroBear Berbil

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Eh, well they already have my money. They got it on the 3rd so when it comes out I pretty much have to get it anyway.

#67
JironGhrad

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PanosSmirnakos wrote...

And don't forget the in-game merchants who "sell" the DLCs. That was a weird experience for me when I was playing. Definitely took me by surprise. Maybe this was a small glimpse to the future of video games. Kinda scary.


Hey, at least it's not like Battlefield: Bad Company. I was in a ranked match the other night and saw a billboard in a dusty little middle-eastern-style town advertising the "Book of Eli" movie. A friend paused to read that billboard and got shot in the head.

#68
Schneidend

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phordicus wrote...

Frozeal wrote...
Also add the replay value.
Imho, not bad price, it's only U$5, stop whining about that; just don't smoke cigar or pot the next party and/or don't get mindlessly drunk and there you have it.


it's not a money issue, but what replay value?  it's too short for anything other than a few lines of dialog and there are zero significant choices made.


Can I download a copy of the DLC you've obviously already played from you?

#69
grey047

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Agree with the OP though. Not going to spend any more money on dlcs until the expansion, and I'm not going to preorder this expension set anymore as I am pretty sure that I can get the expension set at a half price two months after the releasing of it. The actual game price has dropped about 50% already by now on amazon.

#70
MEUTRIERE

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Lopper128 wrote...

Flintyx wrote...

was the mission at least fun


It was fun to play some more dragon age and you got a cupple of nice items. It was nothing special though Wardens keep and the Stone prisionair was better by far. I kinda got the feeling that they stressed this one. Oh and the kings armor wasent as shiny as when you first saw him in it. :(


-NOTE: The following may contain RtO spoilers.  Proceed with caution.  :D-

Having bought and played RtO yesterday as well, I'd just like to concur with this.  Well, most of it at least.  IMHO, it was nice to have more new(ish) places to explore, but it was overall, not too great.  I personally enjoyed playing in the snow-covered Ostagar (I've always had a thing for snow in games :kissing:) but it really was just fighting darkspawn over and over again.  It lacked any real plot, but of course it was nice to see how the King ended up and gather his armour.  There's also a bit of touching dialogue in there, if you're as big a cheese as I am.  And, as Lopper128 wrote, the armour isn't shiny; a real disappointment there.  <_<

Just my $0.02.

#71
Flintyx

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rto=market testing



1.) Release date=holiday season

Result=people get bioware, micosoft, and ps3 points (sorry don't know what they're called), correlate that with the people that play da:o

2.) Release date=jan. 5th

Result=people who haven't bought points finally break down and buy them because a hard date has been introduced.

3.) Release date=leaked copy

Result=all the people that were gonna buy the product but are weary about buying points because of previous mishaps



Now that is some good data, but the real test for them is if they can get statistics on the people who are waiting to see what happens..........what next a mind reading virus that talks to you through your da:o character and deciphers if your are gonna buy the dlc...........






#72
Grim312

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BTA1 wrote...

Well, at least I've learned to never buy points before the product is out. If I hadn't bought those points allready I would not buy the DLC.

 There is always the option to call your CC company and have it charged back thats what I.m in the process of doing

#73
Sir Hawkmoon

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DA:O-GameTime = 2/3TalkTime + 1/3 PlayTime



Way to less self acting / activ playing.



Talk is nice and well done but im disappointed that beside all that nice talk are not enougth content to explore, interact and play with and in this world.



And on Top the DLCs. Where the price for the little bit of additional content is too high.

#74
PatT2

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Spitz6860 wrote...

the whole DLC thing is relatively new, so obviously all the publishers are gonna experiment with it and max their profit.

This must be "reverse banking!" Give us your money and we may or may not eventually give you anything in return. Including your money back. then they wll send you a new customer agreement in a month or so letting you know that they've decided to charge you 17% per annum for the privelege of considering them your provider of banking, but you can't have your money back.

Or it could be lock investing where, if you invested $1000 in 2000, youd have $800 now! Isn't that interesting. Somehow, someone, somewhere, got rich, though.

#75
KadivyaSky

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Microtransactions are the 'wave of the future' it seems, and everyone is getting in on the action. Having seen the success of such things from the SIMS and "free to play" MMOs, I'd not be surprised if they don't start releasing little things for little prices in the future...a sword here, 20 points, a crossbow there 20 points, and so forth. Sometimes people who wouldn't pay for huge things will pay 50 cents here and 50 cents there. If people will pay 50 cents for a new suit in SIMS or a piece of furniture type, imagine what people would do in this game for a shinier piece of armor or "shiny silver eyes" like in the original trailers, and so forth.



As for paying 5 dollars US for an expansion, with tax it is more than that, nearly 6 dollars. I don't mind paying that for a quality meaningful storytelling addition especially if it adds some shiny armor or weapons to sweeten the deal. With Warden's Keep, the utility of a storage locker + the little random encounter that led to an amazing weapon /on top of/ the quality meaningful storytelling...the fee paid for it was worth it, to me.