354 réponses à ce sujet

[pistolols]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Ultimas Dragon wrote...
I'm a little confused by what you have posted here, this does not match what Squad Command does in game.

Rank 6 SC
"All allies within 4 meaters do 10% more dmamage.
This bonus does not affect you.
Increase your melee damage by 30%."

Compared to Power Transfer
"Increase health and shield bonuses by 75%.
Increase shields restored by heavy melee by 50%.
Decrease all damage done by 15%."

It's right there.

Picking Power Transfer (instead of squad command) makes you lose 15% damage.

i bet he thinks it means 15% less damage taken.  

[Ultimas Dragon]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

Ultimas Dragon wrote...
I'm a little confused by what you have posted here, this does not match what Squad Command does in game.

Rank 6 SC
"All allies within 4 meaters do 10% more dmamage.
This bonus does not affect you.
Increase your melee damage by 30%."

Compared to Power Transfer
"Increase health and shield bonuses by 75%.
Increase shields restored by heavy melee by 50%.
Decrease all damage done by 15%."

It's right there.

Picking Power Transfer (instead of squad command) makes you lose 15% damage.

Ahh I feel a lil silly now, some how I read that as being a a 15% damage reduction to incoming damage.
Still I feel PT is still the better choice, for me.

[Cirvante]

I skip turret and take Harrier and Reegar. Small shield for right hand advantage and minimal annoyance for teammates. I'm taking the 75% shields fitness option, since I'm using two of the most OP weapons in the game and my shield gives me a 10% damage boost. I'll probably switch the Harrier for the Spitfire once I acquire it, because then I won't have to camp next to ammo boxes. Heavy Melee is for stunning mooks, occasionally replenishing shields and massive tanking (as in two banshees, two brutes and several mooks).

I run him on gold with Cyclonic I and with IV on platinum (though I don't like playing him on plat).

[Isuku]

Im playing Silver and Gold (no Platinum cause of missing Buddies/random?...naah)
When i saw the first Juggs i thought wow they never die, they are cool and **** his Shield is blocking my shots again.
just yesterday I've got my Jugg finally. after some playing i now know that most of the Juggs i saw used Hex Shield and Heavy Melee..pure Suvivalbility no dmg...
But i use the Siege Pulse very often and the Turret, no Hex Shield and Heavy Melee only if Shields are low. Against heavy enemys like Banshees i use turret/Pulse/Melee to kill them quick.
Im always at the first/second place (without the use of Consumables).

I'm wondering after several dozon Sync-Kill enemys it never happened to me.
Does just the Heavy-Melee disable the Synckill or is the Jugg immune all the time.

[megabeast37215]

Wow... so much to address here... I think I'm going to insert my response to you in Bold... since I'm not as good with the quote system as you are

pistolols wrote...

I'm not one of the people "only meleeing" everything, but i do use it quite a bit with Juggs and i think you naysayers do not give it enough credit in terms of the risk free damage it can deal and how enjoyable that can be.  For that reason, i spec 4(a) for Melee in Fitness and strictly use melee gear (either hydraulic joints or Juggernaut Shields) & strength enhancer consumable along with a shotgun omni blade.  With these additions to melee damage taken into account, it can kill everything but the top tier bosses quite fast and gives a glorious little speed boost for every melee kill (fitness 5(a)). No matter how fast your melee kills things, Reegar will always kill it faster, then your shields can regen naturally. You're all melee spec is still going to be quite effective anyway though, when you stack that much melee on anyone, it's effective except for maybe the Collector Adept lol.

megabeast37215 wrote...

Here's the first thing you need to know. The Turret is redundant. 

I'm wondering if you really have your mind made up or not.  I have seen you before heavily advocating the turret and not so much hex shield.   But i do agree and recognise that perhaps the Prime shots bug being fixed with the shield is what swayed your opinion. Yes I had a change of heart on the turret... I basically, L2P the Shield properly one night when Disciple, CandleJack and I all burned a bunch of respec cards experimenting on Plat with him.

megabeast37215 wrote...
Consumables I typically use: Cyclonic Modulator III for Gold, IV for Platinum, Stronghold Package V, Shotgun Rail Amp III, AP ammo III for Gold, IV for Platinum 

If a build needs a cyclonic modulator on Gold in order to be a good build, then it's not one i'm really interesting in using.  Just saying.  And personally i think Juggs is infinitely more enjoyable with an adrenaline module. It doesn't NEED a Cyclonic, but other than an Adrenaline Mod... there isn't anything else worth putting on there from that particular slot. Also... the Juggy gets more mileage out of his Cyclonic Modulators than any other class in the game due to his large base shields AND 40% DR from Siege Pulse.

megabeast37215 wrote...
The reason I take Squad Command is simple... 15% total damage loss is completely unacceptable. 

Becomes somewhat a moot point if you take 6(a) on Hex shield instead.  Only a 5% loss then.  For me, Squad Command is an interesting choice because of the 30% buff to melee which by lacking the 15% loss is technically a 45% buff. But then the shield performs worse as an actual shield. I find the tactical advantages it offers are greater than 10% damage... but honestly, they are both good evos.

megabeast37215 wrote...
Weapons for Juggy: You need close and long range performance. 

If Siege Pulse wasn't a laggy piece of crap offhost, it'd function just fine as medium / almost long range solution.  Even still, i spec for power damge in the passive for when i'm host and pulse away.  For close range, it's gotta be a shotgun for the Omni Blade and it's hard to argue against the effenctivness of the Reegar especially on a character that isn't worried about sync kills.  And even without specing for weapon damage in the passive the reegar still does an amazing job melting things. It sure does. Juggy loves his iWIN button.

megabeast37215 wrote...
How to use the Hex Shield Effectively: This is not a spam power

Disagree.  In my experience, i gotta be able to drop that sucker down at a moments notice at all times.  And if  it burns out from too much damage, or if my teammates get to trollin' me like they always do and destroy it, then i gots to be able to drop it right back down again which btw is also keeping my 10% damage buff constant.  If you only taking the Reegar and specced for the weight capacity evos then it's no problem. Spamming it is counterproductive to your team... you all but said as much when you said your teammates keep trolling you by killing it... when in fact, it's probably more the other way around.

--Ultimately i think Juggs can be played any way one chooses and if they do it properly it will be successful.  He is hard to fail with.  The build you describe is not quite how i would use him but i know i could use him in that manner just fine.  The people that are only meleeing all things but not doing a great job at killing are clearly not maximizing the Juggs melee potential because the fact is i have scored top spot on gold numerous times when playing around with only using heavy melee / hex shield and never shooting a gun.  Top scoring on Gold with PUGs or Silver class players does not mean anything friend. Top scoring on Gold with a bunch of good players however... means something.

I mean you talk about the 1 caveat to your build is having trouble with Brutes... a Juggs based around melee can just sit there draining them until they die and their attacks are simply not strong enough to keep up with his soul stealing.  And that is true for every boss except the Praetorian.  A Juggs built around melee can also melt a Phantom before the first HM drain cycle is even finished... less actions and just as fast if not faster than  your suggestion of "heavy melee their barriers off then when they drop to the ground, mop them up with your gun. "

One brute... yes, I agree, you're right. Multiple brutes in addition to other sources of damage like Marauders/Ravagers/Banshees... and now your 'all soul steal' strategy will fail.

[Dream-Maker]

Nice thread. I've been using a slighly different turret-less offensive build since the beginning and it has be very effective for me personnaly.

http://narida.pytalh...e3/ShotgunAmp5/

I chose the damage boost on hex shield to further boost damage and also because I find the big shield a little too big. As for the weapon I chose the Wraith. Because I'm casting siege pulse fairly often to support weapon damage and hex shield for protection/damage boost/additionnal damage at close range, I prefer this by far to a heavy loadout. Also, the Wraith is versatile enough to handle both short and relatively long range fights.

I use disruptor ammo as it complements shield pulse very well by priming tech bursts. Incendiary works too but I think that as opposed to disruptor, it can't prime the same target for FEs consecutively in a short amount of time, which happens fairly often with that playstyle. With that you can get nice additionnal damage on AOE and not only on single targets. Plus you can abuse power animation cancels thanks to the wraith's low clip and siege pulse not triggering a cooldown (when you have charges of course).

Modifié par Dream-Maker, 20 mars 2013 - 04:08 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

GallowsPole wrote...

Drop flame turret, HM, pay day. Screw that lame shield. I got my spitfire exactly doing that. Spitting incendiary ammo and FE'ing every damned thing, using HM and turret for shield regen. That stupid hex shield is worthless since it gets in the way and if you're lucky, will stop an Engineer from shooting you. Keep moving and prioritize targets that will drain shields. 

This, except I have no spitfire and have settled on the lancer w/ ext mag and hvb.  Was most disappointed with hex shield when I felt ravager shots hitting me.  Don't care if it was due to some kind of aoe...I can use right hand advantage from an actual wall and NOT get aoe from ravager shots.  I completely dropped hex shield after that match.  I spam turret for shield regen. 

[Dokteur Kill]

megabeast37215 wrote...
One brute... yes, I agree, you're right. Multiple brutes in addition to other sources of damage like Marauders/Ravagers/Banshees... and now your 'all soul steal' strategy will fail.

You'd be surprised how survivable the juggernaut can be if you really spec him for survivability and shield regeneration with melee.

Two banshees and two brutes together (on gold) will wear me down, but it actually does take that much. Anything less is fairly easily managed, even if it can get a bit grindy. Shooting from mooks doesn't really scare me that much (and can usually be managed with the hex shield). The worst thing that can happen is to get shot at by ravagers while you're dancing with multiple brutes and banshees.

Oh, and a little PSA: if you do get caught in the middle of a brute/banshee foursome, shoot the brutes first. They do more damage, and can take less punishment.

[megabeast37215]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
One brute... yes, I agree, you're right. Multiple brutes in addition to other sources of damage like Marauders/Ravagers/Banshees... and now your 'all soul steal' strategy will fail.

You'd be surprised how survivable the juggernaut can be if you really spec him for survivability and shield regeneration with melee.

Two banshees and two brutes together (on gold) will wear me down, but it actually does take that much. Anything less is fairly easily managed, even if it can get a bit grindy. Shooting from mooks doesn't really scare me that much (and can usually be managed with the hex shield). The worst thing that can happen is to get shot at by ravagers while you're dancing with multiple brutes and banshees.

Oh, and a little PSA: if you do get caught in the middle of a brute/banshee foursome, shoot the brutes first. They do more damage, and can take less punishment.

But why put yourself through that when you can just kill them outright?

[StoxRegalia]

Hopefully this teaches people a thing or two. Mega really keeps the heat of the rest of the team while actually killing things. We always extract even when I'm on my scrub account.

[megabeast37215]

Notorious P I G wrote...

Hopefully this teaches people a thing or two. Mega really keeps the heat of the rest of the team while actually killing things. We always extract even when I'm on my scrub account.

Heri from Air Quotes thread doesn't seem to think so... according to him/her I can't tank much of anything.

[Catastrophy]

Isuku wrote...

Im playing Silver and Gold (no Platinum cause of missing Buddies/random?...naah)
When i saw the first Juggs i thought wow they never die, they are cool and **** his Shield is blocking my shots again.
just yesterday I've got my Jugg finally. after some playing i now know that most of the Juggs i saw used Hex Shield and Heavy Melee..pure Suvivalbility no dmg...
But i use the Siege Pulse very often and the Turret, no Hex Shield and Heavy Melee only if Shields are low. Against heavy enemys like Banshees i use turret/Pulse/Melee to kill them quick.
Im always at the first/second place (without the use of Consumables).

I'm wondering after several dozon Sync-Kill enemys it never happened to me.
Does just the Heavy-Melee disable the Synckill or is the Jugg immune all the time.

He's entirely immune to sync-kills and Husk-humping.

[mykejm]

GallowsPole wrote...

Drop flame turret, HM, pay day.

This is how I've been most effective with him. There is great synergy between melee and turret.

[dumael]

I've found that Geth scanner + drill rounds on PPR works quite well on the juggernaut, as you can wallbang to compensate for your slow movement speed.

[megabeast37215]

dumael wrote...

I've found that Geth scanner + drill rounds on PPR works quite well on the juggernaut, as you can wallbang to compensate for your slow movement speed.

I can see that being a good combo... on any kit really.

[megabeast37215]

mykejm wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

Drop flame turret, HM, pay day.

This is how I've been most effective with him. There is great synergy between melee and turret.

How so? Heavy Melee kills slowly, turret kills even slower... together do they outdamage a shotgun? I think not....

[Miniditka77]

megabeast37215 wrote...

The 15% I was talking about... it the 15% you DON'T LOSE by taking Squad Command in fitness. Perhaps I worded it wrong.

If you take 6b in fitness... you lose 15% damage, if you take 6a in fitness, you don't lose 15% damage. The choice to take 6a is simply to not gimp my weapons... the melee damage and team damage boost is just icing on the cake.

If you are taking 6a simply because you don't want to take 6b, then why not put those 6 points into the Turret?  Do you really think it's that useless? 

[DasSteube]

I have an odd spec for the hex shield- namely the shock field while active and 10% bonus damage while up. I net 5% less damage overall, but proper placement of PPR rounds and Siege Pulses mitigates that almost completely.

[Lucius Aelius]

I'm reposting what I said elsewhere (repeating myself on this subject has gotten tedious):

What mystifies me is this idea of "tanking" and "support" that doesn't involve killing things. As I've said repeatedly now it's the Volus argument all over again, and Jugg's heavy melee is the new shield boost. Yes it does make you nigh-invincible and yes it helps your teammates, but people seem to think that's an excuse to not kill things (with more than heavy melee) as well, which I frankly don't understand unless all such people really are just that bad at the game and they can't handle playing normally (actually using guns and powers).

I don't like carrying people who are playing above their skill level (sends people the message that ruining other people's fun because you're greedy is okay, which it isn't), so when I see anyone playing in a brain-dead manner without shooting or using powers to kill things, I see that person as essentially a leecher playing a difficulty they otherwise wouldn't be prepared for in the hopes of being carried, and if nothing else I don't want to play with them.

In addition, the simple fact is that both Volus and Juggernauts have the potential to deal out not insubstantial quantities of damage with their weapons and powers (no matter how you spec them), and not using them to kill things is choosing not to live up to either character's potential. Anyone who is only half-playing their character is doing it wrong and is at least a semi-leecher (as is anyone who goes into a game expecting to need to be carried or expecting others to be dealing out all the DPS).

Then there's this idea of tanking that involves specifically standing in a massive group of enemies and just heavy meleeing ad nauseam, as though that's the "right" way to play the Juggernaut, which it just isn't. Play the Juggernaut normally, backing up from boss enemies so they never surround you while still keeping them occupied is hardly difficult. Add to that actual shooting and power use, and you can "tank" all the bosses while also being the person who kills them, a far more effective (and infinitely more fun) way to use the GJ.

I would not presume to say there is only one right way to play the Juggernaut, but there most certainly is a wrong way, and most people I've seen are unequivocally doing it wrong.


tl;dr: Being a true team player in a shooting game requires you to kill things and not expect others to do the killing for you.

[DJMetaverse]

I use the Typhoon for long range as well. But I like the Reegar for up close to strip the shields. I feel like if I am going to melee at all, I should at least use something that strips shields better. I try and use my Hex Shield to help my teamates and to block incoming fire when someone is being revived. On Plat I have been able to manage 2nd on the score board, but usually end up #3. I try and contribute as much as I can and do my best to make sure nobody gets sync killed accidentally.

[DasSteube]

There is a place for tanking, but this "Press B for credits" is kinda absurd. I use mine for tanking, kiting and artillery support. My Juggernaut plays with the team, but is fully capable of the clutch. I don't spead run, I could care less if I spend fifteen minutes or thirty on a game. I have a PPR and Siege Pulses for killing stuff.

[pistolols]

megabeast37215 wrote...

One brute... yes, I agree, you're right. Multiple brutes in addition to other sources of damage like Marauders/Ravagers/Banshees... and now your 'all soul steal' strategy will fail.

On plat, yes.  On gold, not really, with the exception of the Collectors maybe.  i'll have to upload a video or soemthing.  Crowds on gold are no problem at all for a melee only Juggs.  he can survive anything thrown at him on gold if he has to.  also keep in mind a melee only juggs can skip Passive completely if he wants to rock both turret and hex shield.  As you once argued, even though turret doesn't give much it's just acquiring the insta shield gate that can save ur ass.  but on plat  you will find me only heavy meleeing all phantoms for my teammates and reegaring everything else.

[Grun7mas7er]

 Thanks for posting this, Mega. I will try this out myself. 

[Dokteur Kill]

megabeast37215 wrote...
But why put yourself through that when you can just kill them outright?

For one thing, killing a bunch of banshees and brutes isn't necessarily that trivial even with a high-damage spec. And it's not necessarily that productive either. Very often, killing them just means another bunch will be back in your face shortly. A survival-såecced juggernaut can just keep them occupied without them able to do any actual damage.

It's basically an alternative to kiting the banshees around while the team depletes the wave budget by killing weaker enemies. And it works better in the cases where there's no wave budget, like hack circles.

[landylan]

Geth turret>hex shield........ Especially for offense.