354 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Does Hex Shield benefit from Cyclonic Modulators?

Since it benefits from Hardened Platform (Fitness), I'm hoping this is the case.

Otherwise, for Hex Shield rank 4, Shield Strength may be a better option than Pulse, especially on Platinum where enemies are hardly affected by the Pulse anyway.

I honestly don't know the answer to that one.

[megabeast37215]

DrFace007 wrote...

Stopped reading after the turret is redundant. Ur doing it wrong.

O rly?

Please tell me how preventing damage from ever taking place, as opposed to getting a piddly <1000 shields from the turret is doing it wrong?

When your shields go down from a long range enemy, and there's nothing to melee, what are you gonna do? Spam the turret 5 times? Why do that when you can drop the shield and eliminate the threat?

[megabeast37215]

TwinWolf954 wrote...

Hm... nah, I think I'll stick with my 66606 build. Haven't failed a Platinum match with my build once.

My restoration-specced turret helps keep my teammates into the fight (and out of cover, allowing them to apply sustained fire for longer), and my durable large shield primes for tech bursts; combined with my max fitness (not everyone gets Cyclonic Modulators and level IV consumables on a regular basis), I'm capable of taking on the aggro of almost every enemy on the map.

In short, I have my way of being effective with the Juggernaut, just as you have yours.

I couldn't care less about the -15% damage reducton; mods and consumables do more than enough to make up for it. He's capable of killing enemies, but compared to other classes, he's far from a DPS machine. I'd rather build upon what he excels at the most, instead of what other classes can do better.

It's almost impossible to fail a Plat match with a well played Juggy on the team... the only caveat is that your build requires 3 DPS characters to do most of the heavy lifting for you, while I can tank and do DPS with my build.

I dislike your strategy because I don't like burdening the other 3 players with having to shoulder the majority of the killing.

Sorry to hear about your lack of Cyclonic IVs

[Lathlaer]

TwinWolf954 wrote...

I couldn't care less about the -15% damage reducton; mods and consumables do more than enough to make up for it. He's capable of killing enemies, but compared to other classes, he's far from a DPS machine. I'd rather build upon what he excels at the most, instead of what other classes can do better.

He can be a good DPS machine if you give him a good DPS weapon. He can be very effective with Reegar because he doesn't suffer that much if exposed and doesn't have to kite that much. I was dancing with 4 platinum dragoons and it was hilarious, because when I was circling, none of them could aim with this smash jump. All I had to do was to circle and empty one clip after another.

Platinum duo against cerberus with two reegar juggernauts, done several times, each time in less than 25 minutes (22 minutes was our best I think). Piece of cake, even when we both had -15% to damage.

If you want to use something else (like the Typhoon/Spitfire/PPR) then I would suggest taking the other evo, but only if you have some cyclonic modulators. I didn't, so I took the build which didn't require one and a weapon which could take the -15% penalty.

[Stoned Roman]

I just wanted to add something, on a lower difficulty, well silver really, melee IS a viable attack option. I have close to the same set up, and I use a reegar with the ammo and omni-blade mods, and I can kill a phantom with full health in one go, and come within 2-3 pibs on gold. I view it as a source of infinite shields, which it is, so I do focus on heavy melee. Because the way I play it, I'm a tank, not a damage dealer. Sort of like how the volus is just a "healer" with his shield boost. If played the right way, you can and should save everyone, because that's what he's designed for. That's my opinion anyways.

[DrFace007]

megabeast37215 wrote...

DrFace007 wrote...

Stopped reading after the turret is redundant. Ur doing it wrong.

O rly?

Please tell me how preventing damage from ever taking place, as opposed to getting a piddly <1000 shields from the turret is doing it wrong?

When your shields go down from a long range enemy, and there's nothing to melee, what are you gonna do? Spam the turret 5 times? Why do that when you can drop the shield and eliminate the threat?

Too lazy to type. If ur on xbox inv me. I will show u how a turret works. No need for hex shield. It gets in the way most of the time.

[DHKany]

DrFace007 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

DrFace007 wrote...

Stopped reading after the turret is redundant. Ur doing it wrong.

O rly?

Please tell me how preventing damage from ever taking place, as opposed to getting a piddly <1000 shields from the turret is doing it wrong?

When your shields go down from a long range enemy, and there's nothing to melee, what are you gonna do? Spam the turret 5 times? Why do that when you can drop the shield and eliminate the threat?

Too lazy to type. If ur on xbox inv me. I will show u how a turret works. No need for hex shield. It gets in the way most of the time.

lolno. 

Turret shield restore is redundant on the Juggy. 

[megabeast37215]

Stoned Roman wrote...

I just wanted to add something, on a lower difficulty, well silver really, melee IS a viable attack option. I have close to the same set up, and I use a reegar with the ammo and omni-blade mods, and I can kill a phantom with full health in one go, and come within 2-3 pibs on gold. I view it as a source of infinite shields, which it is, so I do focus on heavy melee. Because the way I play it, I'm a tank, not a damage dealer. Sort of like how the volus is just a "healer" with his shield boost. If played the right way, you can and should save everyone, because that's what he's designed for. That's my opinion anyways.

Everything works on silver... even poop such as the Shuriken, Katana, etc.

People who play the Volus the way you describe are the same people who spam shield boost constantly throughout the entire match and are lucky to get the 25 kills medal. The thing about doing what you describe is:

You put the onus of killing everything on 3 people... this leads to longer matches, AND what happens if everyone gets sync-killed, can you clutch a wave 9/10 solo vs all 8 enemies.. because they WILL run you down? Do you have the DPS available to get a Banshee/Praetorian to drop a teammate? This is important. Gimping your damage for 'support' is ultimately counterproductive.... because it's specializing. You don't need to be a specialist in anything... you need to be proficient at everything, this includes killing armor and mooks. What's next? The dedicated debuffer who only spams Cryo Blast? I hope not...

Have you ever seen what a Volus can do with a real weapon like a Harrier/Lancer/Claymore? Volus can kill just as effectively as any other class in the game. They are more than just shield boost spammers... in fact those are the WORST type of Volus.

[Sacrificial Bias]

Meh, I'm not too sure about this one. I personally enjoy the N7 Destroyer as a weapons class, I'm just not so sure about using the Juggy in the same capacity. Also, the playstyle tends to make the Hex Shield more of a nuisance than anything else. If you're really playing the tank, you will be in the front and teammates will be behind you. Placing a shield in that situation makes you more likely to block their shots. Admittedly that depends on the rest of the team and whether they choose to position themselves directly behind you and not at your sides. But this is generally the case in random games, and it might not even be avoidable. Your teammates retreat, you do not, thus you end up in front of them whether you're trying to or not.

And again, given the frontline playstyle it encourages, the hex shield may not offer much protection when you get surrounded on all sides and can't move your slow ass away.

I also think the 15% damage reduction is just fine compared to losing 1500 shields with 40% DR.

I enjoy slapping my Black Widow VIII on him with a Hurricane VII for close range. One of the problems I face with sniper gameplay is being forced into cover with one good burst from trash. The second is wimping out when mobs get close or I get blindsided in the world of the sniper scope and am forced to run away like a sissy girl. With the Juggernaut, even if a Banshee gets in my face, I take out the Hurricane, pop the healing turret nearby if need be, and proceed to fire a long steady burst of neverending bullets from the Heat Sink + Mag Cap combo directly into her face. The 15% damage reduction from fitness is more or less forgotten as the shots are point blank and nearly all of them will hit the head.

While not as powerful as an Infiltrator, 1200 damage per Black Widow shot with Stronghold Package gear and no ammo or weapon consumables sounds pretty respectable to me. The draw here is that you can more or less snipe with impunity and much less downtime than Infiltrators. And while it seems contradictory for the Juggy to be in the back of the fray standing next to a wall for most of the match, I typically find that most bosses end up being in my face anyway, because everyone inevitably seems to run towards me when running away.

Also, I think people underestimate the healing turret's survivability. Mobs don't aggro on pets like they used to, so I often find the turret can stay alive for several minutes easily, an even more so if you place it smart and out of sight. The gameplay is like a Geth Engineer with a Sniper, only less damaging, and MUCH more survivability. And this may be a strange thing to note, but I think a lot of people have neglected the Black Widow as of late. At my weapon level, it easy rivals a Harrier I, but with a scope and thus longer range, and a very long lasting ammo pool.

[megabeast37215]

DrFace007 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

DrFace007 wrote...

Stopped reading after the turret is redundant. Ur doing it wrong.

O rly?

Please tell me how preventing damage from ever taking place, as opposed to getting a piddly <1000 shields from the turret is doing it wrong?

When your shields go down from a long range enemy, and there's nothing to melee, what are you gonna do? Spam the turret 5 times? Why do that when you can drop the shield and eliminate the threat?

Too lazy to type. If ur on xbox inv me. I will show u how a turret works. No need for hex shield. It gets in the way most of the time.

I know how the turret works... it gives me a pathetic amount of shields about every 5-10 seconds, if it doesn't give it to my teammates... or it does a pathetic amount of damage with it's 100-200ish DPS flamethrower. The only thing it's got going for it IMO is that it has a beastly stagger from the main gun.

Everyone who says Hex Shield gets in the way I feel... doesn't know how or when to tactically deploy it.

[DrFace007]

Use turret as decoy. Why would u use it as shield restore. Shield restore is not needed on juggernaut.

[Dokteur Kill]

megabeast37215 wrote...

I dislike your strategy because I don't like burdening the other 3 players with having to shoulder the majority of the killing.

That's a bit of a negative view of things. Killing is the fun part, after all.

Personally, I see it this way: I can take enough heat off the rest of the team to allow them to spend at least 33% more time out of cover and firing on the enemy, and that's more than enough to make up for my mediocre damage.

[megabeast37215]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

Meh, I'm not too sure about this one. I personally enjoy the N7 Destroyer as a weapons class, I'm just not so sure about using the Juggy in the same capacity. Also, the playstyle tends to make the Hex Shield more of a nuisance than anything else. If you're really playing the tank, you will be in the front and teammates will be behind you. Placing a shield in that situation makes you more likely to block their shots. Admittedly that depends on the rest of the team and whether they choose to position themselves directly behind you and not at your sides. But this is generally the case in random games, and it might not even be avoidable. Your teammates retreat, you do not, thus you end up in front of them whether you're trying to or not.

And again, given the frontline playstyle it encourages, the hex shield may not offer much protection when you get surrounded on all sides and can't move your slow ass away.

I also think the 15% damage reduction is just fine compared to losing 1500 shields with 40% DR.

I enjoy slapping my Black Widow VIII on him with a Hurricane VII for close range. One of the problems I face with sniper gameplay is being forced into cover with one good burst from trash. The second is wimping out when mobs get close or I get blindsided in the world of the sniper scope and am forced to run away like a sissy girl. With the Juggernaut, even if a Banshee gets in my face, I take out the Hurricane, pop the healing turret nearby if need be, and proceed to fire a long steady burst of neverending bullets from the Heat Sink + Mag Cap combo directly into her face. The 15% damage reduction from fitness is more or less forgotten as the shots are point blank and nearly all of them will hit the head.

While not as powerful as an Infiltrator, 1200 damage per Black Widow shot with Stronghold Package gear and no ammo or weapon consumables sounds pretty respectable to me. The draw here is that you can more or less snipe with impunity and much less downtime than Infiltrators. And while it seems contradictory for the Juggy to be in the back of the fray standing next to a wall for most of the match, I typically find that most bosses end up being in my face anyway, because everyone inevitably seems to run towards me when running away.

Also, I think people underestimate the healing turret's survivability. Mobs don't aggro on pets like they used to, so I often find the turret can stay alive for several minutes easily, an even more so if you place it smart and out of sight. The gameplay is like a Geth Engineer with a Sniper, only less damaging, and MUCH more survivability. And this may be a strange thing to note, but I think a lot of people have neglected the Black Widow as of late. At my weapon level, it easy rivals a Harrier I, but with a scope and thus longer range, and a very long lasting ammo pool.

The point of this thread isn't to turn him solely into a weapons class... it's to turn him into a hybrid tank/killer. Believe it or not, it is possible to do both at the same time... seriously.

If the team shoots the shield... so what? They should all have some type of AP on anyway (from AP ammo or AP mods) and then they can shoot right through the shield. It's the power classes losing cooldowns that worries me.

I can see the Black Widow being a good choice on him. I might have to try that.

You don't get surrounded on all sides by trash if you **GASP** kill them quickly!!! (the point of the thread)

If I didn't have a steady supply of Cyclonics... I would probably take 6b in fitness... but I do... so I don't.

My issues with the turret aren't about survivability... it that the amount of shields provided is pathetic when you consider how much shields the Juggy needs regenerated. It's much much simpler/more efficient to just kill everything and let the shields go back up naturally... or put down the giant Hex Shield and let them go up naturally while you keep killing.

[megabeast37215]

DrFace007 wrote...

Use turret as decoy. Why would u use it as shield restore. Shield restore is not needed on juggernaut.

Because I am the decoy... and I want things to come into range of my Reegar X with HVB and AP IV ammo. Then I can isolate a few enemies with the shield (by blocking off the crowd behind them) and melt their faces.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 21 mars 2013 - 12:38 .

[megabeast37215]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

I dislike your strategy because I don't like burdening the other 3 players with having to shoulder the majority of the killing.

That's a bit of a negative view of things. Killing is the fun part, after all.

Personally, I see it this way: I can take enough heat off the rest of the team to allow them to spend at least 33% more time out of cover and firing on the enemy, and that's more than enough to make up for my mediocre damage.

Ok... but what happens when you have to clutch wave 9/10 Gold/Plat objectives because your team all got sync-killed? Can you do that with your build? Seriously... can you?

Can you force a Banshee/Praetorian to drop your teammate and save them from a sync-kill?

 It's situations like these that expose glaring flaws in the "I don't kill, I only tank" strategy.

You need to be able to kill.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 21 mars 2013 - 12:38 .

[TwinWolf954]

megabeast37215 wrote...

It's almost impossible to fail a Plat match with a well played Juggy on the team... the only caveat is that your build requires 3 DPS characters to do most of the heavy lifting for you, while I can tank and do DPS with my build.

I dislike your strategy because I don't like burdening the other 3 players with having to shoulder the majority of the killing.

Sorry to hear about your lack of Cyclonic IVs

What you see as a burden, others may see as a godsend.

I may experiment with an offensive build in the future, maybe after maxing out my rares (hell, I haven't even maxed out my uncommon gear yet) and the level IV consumables start rolling in. Until then, I'm keeping him the way he is.

Lathlaer wrote...

He can be a good DPS machine if you give him a
good DPS weapon. He can be very effective with Reegar because he
doesn't suffer that much if exposed and doesn't have to kite that much. I
was dancing with 4 platinum dragoons and it was hilarious, because when
I was circling, none of them could aim with this smash jump. All I had
to do was to circle and empty one clip after another.

Platinum
duo against cerberus with two reegar juggernauts, done several times,
each time in less than 25 minutes (22 minutes was our best I think).
Piece of cake, even when we both had -15% to damage.

If you want
to use something else (like the Typhoon/Spitfire/PPR) then I would
suggest taking the other evo, but only if you have some cyclonic
modulators. I didn't, so I took the build which didn't require one and a
weapon which could take the -15% penalty.

I'm pretty sure he can be a decent DPS machine, with a certain build - one that I can't afford at the moment, however... not with my current manifest, at least. I'm satisfied (and I'm pretty sure my teammates are, too) with the current build I have for him now.

Modifié par TwinWolf954, 21 mars 2013 - 12:48 .

[megabeast37215]

TwinWolf954 wrote...

I'm pretty sure he can be a decent DPS machine, with a certain build - one that I can't afford at the moment, however... not with my current manifest, at least. I'm satisfied (and I'm pretty sure my teammates are, too) with the current build I have for him now.

That's why there are threads popping up somewhat regularly on BSN about scrubs only using Juggy heavy melee and only scoring 40-50k.... and the same people are complaining about having 30 minutes Gold games and being forced to score 200k just to complete the match.

[Dokteur Kill]

megabeast37215 wrote...
Ok... but what happens when you have to clutch wave 9/10 Gold/Plat objectives because your team all got sync-killed? Can you do that with your build? Seriously... can you?

I can, although it gets time-consuming. The only one that's really problematic is pizza carrying (due to his movement speed), and that's probably even more difficult with a damage-oriented build.

But here's the thing: It's not really difficult to avoid that scenario. Just get the attention of the sync-kill capable enemies, and hold it. And that's actually really easy to do.

Can you force a Banshee/Praetorian to drop your teammate and save them from a sync-kill?

Not reliably, but very few things can. Siege pulse and claymore give me a decent chance. But again, it's very easy to avoid having to do that at all.

It's situations like these that expose glaring flaws in the "I don't kill, I only tank" strategy.

None of them are flaws if the rest of the team know how to take advantage of the Juggernaut being on the team. But again, I'm not saying the juggernaut shouldn't do damage whenever possible. Just that it's not necessary to do as much damage as possible to be useful. 

Modifié par Dokteur Kill, 21 mars 2013 - 12:51 .

[HolyAvenger]

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

[Dokteur Kill]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

More than one is pretty unnecessary.

A defensive juggernaut and pair of Krogan warlords on the other hand: pure hilarity. London gold was easy mode with that team.

[megabeast37215]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...
Ok... but what happens when you have to clutch wave 9/10 Gold/Plat objectives because your team all got sync-killed? Can you do that with your build? Seriously... can you?

I can, although it gets time-consuming. The only one that's really problematic is pizza carrying (due to his movement speed), and that's probably even more difficult with a damage-oriented build.

But here's the thing: It's not really difficult to avoid that scenario. Just get the attention of the sync-kill capable enemies, and hold it. And that's actually really easy to do.

Can you force a Banshee/Praetorian to drop your teammate and save them from a sync-kill?

Not reliably, but very few things can. Siege pulse and claymore give me a decent chance. But again, it's very easy to avoid having to do that at all.

It's situations like these that expose glaring flaws in the "I don't kill, I only tank" strategy.

None of them are flaws if the rest of the team know how to take advantage of the Juggernaut being on the team. But again, I'm not saying the juggernaut shouldn't do damage whenever possible. Just that it's not necessary to do as much damage as possible to be useful. 

So you mean to tell me you can reliably hold the aggro of all 4 Phantoms on wave 10 Gold? No... you can't. Once one or two of them get killed... they are going to start coming from different directions. It isn't entirely out of your control... but I can be and often will be.

You can clutch objective waves but it takes a long time huh? What about High Value Targets? If you have less than 3 rockets... it can get really ugly if you can't kill. Good luck killing at Altas with a low DPS build, when there are 6 other enemies beating the crap out of you, good luck keeping it's shields from regenerating.

I can force a Banshee/Praetorian to drop a teammate 90% of the time.... the trick is just to be within Reegar range... otherwise, rocket out.

So none of them are flaws if the rest of the team sits behind the Juggy and shoot everything off of his back. That sounds like a pretty boring game... unless Plat Farming. I would never do that in a Gold match... nor would 95% of the folks I play with.

Modifié par megabeast37215, 21 mars 2013 - 01:04 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

DHKany wrote...

DrFace007 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

DrFace007 wrote...

Stopped reading after the turret is redundant. Ur doing it wrong.

O rly?

Please tell me how preventing damage from ever taking place, as opposed to getting a piddly <1000 shields from the turret is doing it wrong?

When your shields go down from a long range enemy, and there's nothing to melee, what are you gonna do? Spam the turret 5 times? Why do that when you can drop the shield and eliminate the threat?

Too lazy to type. If ur on xbox inv me. I will show u how a turret works. No need for hex shield. It gets in the way most of the time.

lolno. 

Turret shield restore is redundant on the Juggy. 

Lolno.
Hex shield is glitchy, thus unreliable on juggy.  Spam dat turret...avoid getting shield gated from several directions.  HM for the win.

[megabeast37215]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

See... a perfect example of someone who doesn't want to do all the heavy lifting for melee/defense Juggys. I applaud your quitting... I hope it took those scrubs an hour to finish the match.

[megabeast37215]

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

Lolno.
Hex shield is glitchy, thus unreliable on juggy.  Spam dat turret...avoid getting shield gated from several directions.  HM for the win.

People like you are why this thread exists.

You are a blight!!!

[TwinWolf954]

megabeast37215 wrote...

TwinWolf954 wrote...

I'm pretty sure he can be a decent DPS machine, with a certain build - one that I can't afford at the moment, however... not with my current manifest, at least. I'm satisfied (and I'm pretty sure my teammates are, too) with the current build I have for him now.

That's why there are threads popping up somewhat regularly on BSN about scrubs only using Juggy heavy melee and only scoring 40-50k.... and the same people are complaining about having 30 minutes Gold games and being forced to score 200k just to complete the match.

...Assuming that I ONLY use heavy melee.

I've only seen one thread about it (the one that Air Quotes fellow made), and from what I can tell, BSN =/= the entire ME3 multiplayer community.

The only 30-min match I can recall with the Juggernaut is a Platinum duo with one of the players in my group.