354 réponses à ce sujet

[megabeast37215]

TwinWolf954 wrote...

I've only seen one thread about it (the one that Air Quotes fellow made), and from what I can tell, BSN =/= the entire ME3 multiplayer community.

I knew you were going to say that... and I'm not prepared to sift through 50 pages of threads to prove you wrong.

[Dokteur Kill]

megabeast37215 wrote...
So you mean to tell me you can reliably hold the aggro of all 4 Phantoms on wave 10 Gold? No... you can't. Once one or two of them get killed... they are going to start coming from different directions. It isn't entirely out of your control... but I can be and often will be.

It's a matter of positioning. Not always, sure, but most of the time, and often enough to avoid everyone else getting sync-killed.

You can clutch objective waves but it takes a long time huh? What about High Value Targets? If you have less than 3 rockets... it can get really ugly if you can't kill.

Wouldn't know. I've never been in the situation where I haven't been able to keep most of my team alive in wave 10 gold. 

But let's be honest here, wave 10 targets isn't a problem if you have at least one missile and a PPR.

So none of them are flaws if the rest of the team sits behind the Juggy and shoot everything off of his back. That sounds like a pretty boring game...

You don't have to sit behind him. But if you're roaming, don't be afraid to fall back to him and let him draw the aggro off you. 

[HolyAvenger]

Dokteur Kill wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

More than one is pretty unnecessary.

A defensive juggernaut and pair of Krogan warlords on the other hand: pure hilarity. London gold was easy mode with that team.

 

There is good synergy between a Jugg and Warlord, but honestly when I play Warlord I don't need a Jugg to wreak havoc. Sync-kill units are not that frequent or can be cheesed on ramps regardless.
 

Gold is pretty easymode in general.

[GreatBlueHeron]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Dokteur Kill wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

I dislike your strategy because I don't like burdening the other 3 players with having to shoulder the majority of the killing.

That's a bit of a negative view of things. Killing is the fun part, after all.

Personally, I see it this way: I can take enough heat off the rest of the team to allow them to spend at least 33% more time out of cover and firing on the enemy, and that's more than enough to make up for my mediocre damage.

Ok... but what happens when you have to clutch wave 9/10 Gold/Plat objectives because your team all got sync-killed? Can you do that with your build? Seriously... can you?

Can you force a Banshee/Praetorian to drop your teammate and save them from a sync-kill?

 It's situations like these that expose glaring flaws in the "I don't kill, I only tank" strategy.

You need to be able to kill.

I run no hex shield and do ok damage.  Readied up for a game that everyone looked ok.  Had to carry every single wave except for wave1 and 11.  Yea, me.
When I play with good people (meaning I don't have to solo waves), I prevent them from getting sync killed.  I also throw them my turret when needed and lead the enemies towards me on objectives.  I HM to keep up shields, shoot, repeat.  Dang, it's just fun to HM mooks sometimes, especially dragoons.  Different strokes for different folks.  

[HolyAvenger]

megabeast37215 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

See... a perfect example of someone who doesn't want to do all the heavy lifting for melee/defense Juggys. I applaud your quitting... I hope it took those scrubs an hour to finish the match.

 

Thing is I got dropped into an ongoing match in wave 1. How did those guys think it was going to go 

[TwinWolf954]

megabeast37215 wrote...

TwinWolf954 wrote...

I've only seen one thread about it (the one that Air Quotes fellow made), and from what I can tell, BSN =/= the entire ME3 multiplayer community.

I knew you were going to say that... and I'm not prepared to sift through 50 pages of threads to prove you wrong.

Prove what?  That there's more than one thread about it (I said that I only saw one - I didn't say that there wasn't any others)? Or that BSN = the entire ME3 multiplayer community?

If it's the latter, then good luck.

[megabeast37215]

HolyAvenger wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

I ended up in a 3 defensive-Jugg Reactor Plat match last night. It was pretty bad. I got bored and quit in wave 6. Ain't nobody got time for that.

See... a perfect example of someone who doesn't want to do all the heavy lifting for melee/defense Juggys. I applaud your quitting... I hope it took those scrubs an hour to finish the match.

 

Thing is I got dropped into an ongoing match in wave 1. How did those guys think it was going to go 

I guess they thought "If we all heavy melee through the entire game, we can complete this as fast if not faster than a normal guy solos Platinum!! We won't even need and gels or rockets!!"

[Sacrificial Bias]

megabeast37215 wrote...
The point of this thread isn't to turn him solely into a weapons class... it's to turn him into a hybrid tank/killer. Believe it or not, it is possible to do both at the same time... seriously.

If the team shoots the shield... so what? They should all have some type of AP on anyway (from AP ammo or AP mods) and then they can shoot right through the shield. It's the power classes losing cooldowns that worries me.

I can see the Black Widow being a good choice on him. I might have to try that.

You don't get surrounded on all sides by trash if you **GASP** kill them quickly!!! (the point of the thread)

If I didn't have a steady supply of Cyclonics... I would probably take 6b in fitness... but I do... so I don't.

My issues with the turret aren't about survivability... it that the amount of shields provided is pathetic when you consider how much shields the Juggy needs regenerated. It's much much simpler/more efficient to just kill everything and let the shields go back up naturally... or put down the giant Hex Shield and let them go up naturally while you keep killing.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you, which is why I'm more comfortable with giving up 15% damage(off of base weapon damage IIRC) for 1500 shields.  Though I can definitely see your point with the Cyclonic Mods.

As for the team shooting the shields, I'm actually less concerned about blocking shots.  With perfect a**hole logic, I'd be more upset about that Infiltrator blowing up the shield I just put down in 2 seconds when I have a 7.62 second cooldown on the thing with my current weapon loadout, hence another reason why I opted for the healing turret with a 5 second cooldown instead.  It's less likely to go due to teammate incompetence.  If it weren't the case that the Hex Shield is susceptable to friendly fire, I'd just plop it down at long range and shoot through the one-way shield, and it would be overpowered as hell.

Another issue with the shield is that even with the wider shield evolution, it's not that wide.  So it doesn't really require you to be surrounded on all sides so to speak,  just that if you placed it directly between you and the ravager, and there's a cannibal plinking at you from the side of the shield, your shields won't regenerate.  Thus why I feel the standard stone walls are superior to space age energy shielding:D.

But granted, if you don't have a dying problem with what you're doing, it must be good.  I'm just more hamhanded with the thing and prefer to "tank" from behind a wall, behind the rest of my team:devil:.

I would definitely agree that the "tank only" gameplay will get old real fast, and isn't nearly as satisfying.  There's just something magical about firing a Hurricane nonstop into the face of a Banshee at sync-kill range.  It's something that no one else can quite do the same with.  You can certainly try but... dat magnet hand.

[Stoned Roman]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Stoned Roman wrote...

I just wanted to add something, on a lower difficulty, well silver really, melee IS a viable attack option. I have close to the same set up, and I use a reegar with the ammo and omni-blade mods, and I can kill a phantom with full health in one go, and come within 2-3 pibs on gold. I view it as a source of infinite shields, which it is, so I do focus on heavy melee. Because the way I play it, I'm a tank, not a damage dealer. Sort of like how the volus is just a "healer" with his shield boost. If played the right way, you can and should save everyone, because that's what he's designed for. That's my opinion anyways.

Everything works on silver... even poop such as the Shuriken, Katana, etc.

People who play the Volus the way you describe are the same people who spam shield boost constantly throughout the entire match and are lucky to get the 25 kills medal. The thing about doing what you describe is:

You put the onus of killing everything on 3 people... this leads to longer matches, AND what happens if everyone gets sync-killed, can you clutch a wave 9/10 solo vs all 8 enemies.. because they WILL run you down? Do you have the DPS available to get a Banshee/Praetorian to drop a teammate? This is important. Gimping your damage for 'support' is ultimately counterproductive.... because it's specializing. You don't need to be a specialist in anything... you need to be proficient at everything, this includes killing armor and mooks. What's next? The dedicated debuffer who only spams Cryo Blast? I hope not...

Have you ever seen what a Volus can do with a real weapon like a Harrier/Lancer/Claymore? Volus can kill just as effectively as any other class in the game. They are more than just shield boost spammers... in fact those are the WORST type of Volus.

That's entirely untrue, and you've obviously never played with a competent Juggernaut.  Playing the way I do, my group tends to do Plat in less than 40 minutes on average.  And how is kiling things onerous?!  Do you live in some tiny, hidden, peaceful island nation that hates violence?  No one I've ever played with had any complaints about me letting them have all the kills, and the points that come with them.  And yeah, we all know you can fart in Silver and kill stuff, but a lot of people do play it for just that casual, fun atmosphere.  I was just pointing out that I can be a valid attack in some modes of play.  I'm not saying you're all wrong and don't know what you're talking about.  I'm just saying there's other, perfectly good playstyles to choose from.  Youre obviously the type that prefers to get kills yourself, so your build reflects that.  And I should say, if you tank properly, and your teammates aren't complete idiots, they won't get sync killed and you won't be in that situation.  Which, I have done with the use of comsumables by the way.  Tank til most are close, missle, use hex shield to advance on remaining far away targets, using ops packs if needed, or medi-gel if neccesary. Its pretty simple.  

[HolyAvenger]

Stoned Roman wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Stoned Roman wrote...

I just wanted to add something, on a lower difficulty, well silver really, melee IS a viable attack option. I have close to the same set up, and I use a reegar with the ammo and omni-blade mods, and I can kill a phantom with full health in one go, and come within 2-3 pibs on gold. I view it as a source of infinite shields, which it is, so I do focus on heavy melee. Because the way I play it, I'm a tank, not a damage dealer. Sort of like how the volus is just a "healer" with his shield boost. If played the right way, you can and should save everyone, because that's what he's designed for. That's my opinion anyways.

Everything works on silver... even poop such as the Shuriken, Katana, etc.

People who play the Volus the way you describe are the same people who spam shield boost constantly throughout the entire match and are lucky to get the 25 kills medal. The thing about doing what you describe is:

You put the onus of killing everything on 3 people... this leads to longer matches, AND what happens if everyone gets sync-killed, can you clutch a wave 9/10 solo vs all 8 enemies.. because they WILL run you down? Do you have the DPS available to get a Banshee/Praetorian to drop a teammate? This is important. Gimping your damage for 'support' is ultimately counterproductive.... because it's specializing. You don't need to be a specialist in anything... you need to be proficient at everything, this includes killing armor and mooks. What's next? The dedicated debuffer who only spams Cryo Blast? I hope not...

Have you ever seen what a Volus can do with a real weapon like a Harrier/Lancer/Claymore? Volus can kill just as effectively as any other class in the game. They are more than just shield boost spammers... in fact those are the WORST type of Volus.

That's entirely untrue, and you've obviously never played with a competent Juggernaut.  Playing the way I do, my group tends to do Plat in less than 40 minutes on average.  

 

AHAHAHAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA:lol::lol::lol: 

I can't remember the last Plat game I played with people off my friendslist that took longer 25 minutes. Apart from that all Volus Sentinels game which took 28.


40-minute plats my word:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Stoned Roman]

I said below 40, meaning it doesn't take us that long to do them. Derp. But anyways, not everyone cares about beating plat solo with a human soldier with no consunables and just the Avenger with no mods or gear. We actually enjoy the game, not turning it into a monotonous machine that repeates itself evrry game.

[megabeast37215]

Stoned Roman wrote...
That's entirely untrue, and you've obviously never played with a competent Juggernaut.  Playing the way I do, my group tends to do Plat in less than 40 minutes on average.  And how is kiling things onerous?!  Do you live in some tiny, hidden, peaceful island nation that hates violence?  No one I've ever played with had any complaints about me letting them have all the kills, and the points that come with them.  And yeah, we all know you can fart in Silver and kill stuff, but a lot of people do play it for just that casual, fun atmosphere.  I was just pointing out that I can be a valid attack in some modes of play.  I'm not saying you're all wrong and don't know what you're talking about.  I'm just saying there's other, perfectly good playstyles to choose from.  Youre obviously the type that prefers to get kills yourself, so your build reflects that.  And I should say, if you tank properly, and your teammates aren't complete idiots, they won't get sync killed and you won't be in that situation.  Which, I have done with the use of comsumables by the way.  Tank til most are close, missle, use hex shield to advance on remaining far away targets, using ops packs if needed, or medi-gel if neccesary. Its pretty simple.  

No... I've never played with a competent Juggy. All my SpecX friends are terribad with him

40 minute Plat matches... echo... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're only driving home my point further amigo.

Actually... I love violence... to a fault.

It's not that I prefer getting to kills myself... I prefer not being a burden to the team by being woefully inadequate at killing. The type of player I really am... is the total team player. I sell out for team success... always have, always will. I've even offered myself up to be sync-killed by a Banshee so she wouldn't stagger a teammate off of a wave 10 Plat objective (the final point in a 4-points objective gone horribly bad).

I agree with what you said about how to use consumables with him. It is pretty straight forward.

[megabeast37215]

Stoned Roman wrote...

I said below 40, meaning it doesn't take us that long to do them. Derp. But anyways, not everyone cares about beating plat solo with a human soldier with no consunables and just the Avenger with no mods or gear. We actually enjoy the game, not turning it into a monotonous machine that repeates itself evrry game.

18-25 minutes is typically the standard for my friends who are strong players... 25-28 minutes for weaker players.

No one here it talking about playing gimp builds to challenge ourselves. I personally got over that phase a long time ago... I have nothing left to prove (except soloing Plat which I have no intention of doing).

Modifié par megabeast37215, 21 mars 2013 - 01:52 .

[BOSSTER23]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Stoned Roman wrote...
That's entirely untrue, and you've obviously never played with a competent Juggernaut.  Playing the way I do, my group tends to do Plat in less than 40 minutes on average.  And how is kiling things onerous?!  Do you live in some tiny, hidden, peaceful island nation that hates violence?  No one I've ever played with had any complaints about me letting them have all the kills, and the points that come with them.  And yeah, we all know you can fart in Silver and kill stuff, but a lot of people do play it for just that casual, fun atmosphere.  I was just pointing out that I can be a valid attack in some modes of play.  I'm not saying you're all wrong and don't know what you're talking about.  I'm just saying there's other, perfectly good playstyles to choose from.  Youre obviously the type that prefers to get kills yourself, so your build reflects that.  And I should say, if you tank properly, and your teammates aren't complete idiots, they won't get sync killed and you won't be in that situation.  Which, I have done with the use of comsumables by the way.  Tank til most are close, missle, use hex shield to advance on remaining far away targets, using ops packs if needed, or medi-gel if neccesary. Its pretty simple.  

No... I've never played with a competent Juggy. All my SpecX friends are terribad with him

40 minute Plat matches... echo... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're only driving home my point further amigo.

Actually... I love violence... to a fault.

It's not that I prefer getting to kills myself... I prefer not being a burden to the team by being woefully inadequate at killing. The type of player I really am... is the total team player. I sell out for team success... always have, always will. I've even offered myself up to be sync-killed by a Banshee so she wouldn't stagger a teammate off of a wave 10 Plat objective (the final point in a 4-points objective gone horribly bad).

I agree with what you said about how to use consumables with him. It is pretty straight forward.

Megabeast says what...My Juggy is offended

[megabeast37215]

BOSSTER23 wrote...

Megabeast says what...My Juggy is offended

I can only imagine the carnage you could unleash with him.

The other day... your Hurricane GE made me feel like selling the game lol

[Stoned Roman]

Yeah lol, okay. Keep on thinking whatever makes you feel better. Being in a group doesn't make you better than anyone else, and its cute how you twist my words to suit your goals. And hey, fine, think whatever you like. My friends don't find my playstyle to be a burden, but obviously any dissenting opinions are going to cut to shreds by your inflated ego and group flames. Was just putting my opinion out there.

[BOSSTER23]

megabeast37215 wrote...

BOSSTER23 wrote...

Megabeast says what...My Juggy is offended

I can only imagine the carnage you could unleash with him.

The other day... your Hurricane GE made me feel like selling the game lol

99% Luck...1% Skillz my friend lol

[GallowsPole]

Man and I get called stubborn. The ideology on this board is the only way to play is having the most effective build and getting the matches over in lightning speed, which is alot of bologna. Not all of us gimp ourselves for challenge, it's god damned enjoyment. I can keep up with the so called effective builds with my own game play. Your only so called gimped if you don't know how to play the damn game. Effective dont mean jack if you don't know how to use it or figured how to make it work for you.

These builds are a bunch of crap when it comes down to slapping a reegar on a friggin walking brick. Yay. Friggin fun fun fun. Faster?? Sure. Boring??? Hell yeah. What fun is having the ability to basically walk up unscathed and put a claymore in something's face and pull the trigger.

[UEG Donkey]

Iv'e personally done well with this build; narida.pytalhost.com/me3/classes/#Soldier/GethJuggernaut/KOANR/ReegarCarbine10AO5AL5/NTyphoon5AD5AE5///ShieldBooster5/

It specs out of Turret as well and use the same weapon load out as you do but I switch shield size for 10% bonus to damage and take the hit on damage for 75% more fitness.  I find that by doing this I can spend more time shooting and less time using heavy melee and on Plat I run a Cyclonic IV which gives me total shields of 8200 at the expense of having a 5% decrease in damage.   I've had to use OPs shields in Plat but I've never actually been dropped which is nice. 

Modifié par UEG Donkey, 21 mars 2013 - 02:06 .

[megabeast37215]

Stoned Roman wrote...

Yeah lol, okay. Keep on thinking whatever makes you feel better. Being in a group doesn't make you better than anyone else, and its cute how you twist my words to suit your goals. And hey, fine, think whatever you like. My friends don't find my playstyle to be a burden, but obviously any dissenting opinions are going to cut to shreds by your inflated ego and group flames. Was just putting my opinion out there.

Having an opinion opposed to mine is fine... and I encourage the back and forth, it's how we learn things. But being stuck in your ways isn't helping anyone.

I've already stated in this thread that:

I think the Black Widow/Crusader could be good choices when other folks suggested them.

That skipping rank 6 fitness entirely for 3 points in the Turret could be a very good idea.

That there is more than one way to spec him to be effective.

etc. etc. etc.

The only things I feel are truely stupid... are players going all melee, all the time... gimping your damage output to pathetic levels and skipping the passive tree.

[ahmadsamad]

A good jug is a jug who soak all the damage while flamer/recon mine/grenade/cain trip mine destroy everything that are surrounding him, thus making the platinum session less than 22 minutes long. Non-tanking jug is a detrimental to his squadmates due to his slow speed

[megabeast37215]

GallowsPole wrote...

Man and I get called stubborn. The ideology on this board is the only way to play is having the most effective build and getting the matches over in lightning speed, which is alot of bologna. Not all of us gimp ourselves for challenge, it's god damned enjoyment. I can keep up with the so called effective builds with my own game play. Your only so called gimped if you don't know how to play the damn game. Effective dont mean jack if you don't know how to use it or figured how to make it work for you.

These builds are a bunch of crap when it comes down to slapping a reegar on a friggin walking brick. Yay. Friggin fun fun fun. Faster?? Sure. Boring??? Hell yeah. What fun is having the ability to basically walk up unscathed and put a claymore in something's face and pull the trigger.

Says the guy with 2 people on his friends list, who only PUGs and never plays Platinum.

Some people get enjoyment out of being effective/min-maxing. I'm not going to make a build thread that is ineffective GP... I'll just get eaten alive on here... and quite frankly... I should. The exception is that if one states "This build isn't a min-max build...this build is for the lulz." which I did with the Batarian Brawler.

Reegar isn't the only shotgun choice... it's simply the best CQC weapon you could put on him. Hence... min-max mentality. Did you forget I also said "The Wraith and every rare shotgun, except the Disciple" are good choices on him?

There are clearly... the BEST choices, and then there are the "fun" choices. Take that for what you will.

[megabeast37215]

ahmadsamad wrote...

A good jug is a jug who soak all the damage while flamer/recon mine/grenade/cain trip mine destroy everything that are surrounding him, thus making the platinum session less than 22 minutes long. Non-tanking jug is a detrimental to his squadmates due to his slow speed

Lolno

[GordianKnot42]

megabeast37215 wrote...

That was the build I used before... 3 in shield, 5 in turret. Then I figured out how to maximize the potential of the shield... and I found I didn't need the turret anymore, because I was able to prevent a very large majority of damage taken by using the shield tactically.

I keep 3 points in turret so I have something to throw my teammates to help out while I'm lumbering into position.

[COLZ7R]

I use a ppr Vlll for long range then switch to the reegar X when **** closes in. Dont bother with hex as i have found most pugs just shoot it, use turret as full defence as most of the pugs do stick pretty close to me, never scored less than 110,000 using that setup. Only hm when my shields are in trouble or a phantom is close, as the revenge chokin one of those ****es is just too sweet!!