19 réponses à ce sujet

[MutantSpleen]

I thought Dwarves were cut off from the Fade and had no ability to enter it.  This inability to enter the Fade is what protects dwarves from demonic influence but also prevents them from doing magic.

Maybe I am missing some bit of the lore but or not understanding it correctly. Also does this mean dwarves do not dream since they do not enter the Fade while asleep. Wouldn't that make them like the Tranquil, yet they still have emotions unlike Tranquil.

So how come a dwarf can be pulled into the Fade and fight the Sloth demon at the Mage's Tower?

Confused.

[dooie vogel]

Yes that was my question too, but what will happen to the game if that didn`t happen, you would lose 10 hours of gameplay (if it is your first go) for 2 origins. It would pretty much mess up your playthrough.

So yes it is not possible but for the sake of a happy time it is

Modifié par dooie vogel, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:02 .

[melkathi]

So far what I understand people on this forum have agreed on is that, for the Sloth demon part, it is exactly that detail: you get pulled into the Fade and do not enter it by yourself.



Personaly I believe it's an oversight by the writers

[IronWolf1987]

No one and I mean no one gets spared the torment of having to fight all those mages solo, Dwarven or not. The Maker is wrathful indeed.

[BeljoraDien]

Yeah... would it really have been so bad to have a dwarf character immune to the Sloth demon? Perhaps just have him/her fight the sloth demon by his/her-self and possibly with Oghren and Shale.

'course they would not only miss out on playtime, but also added stats... Hum... maybe just give dwarfs extra stats at the beginning to make up for it.... They do get the nifty spell immunity already.

Also, don't the Dwarf Wardens 'dream' of the Archdemon. I guess that could be excused since it might not take place in the fade for whatever reason.

[Zenon]

One question to be asked in the first place is: What actually is the fade? It seems the mages don't know that exactly themselves. It's described as a dream-dimension, providing mages with magical energies, place of the home of the maker, etc. To me it seems an analogy to the so called astral-plane as known in esoteric literature. This indeed implies also, that this is like a ethereal layer of existence of the soul, which is connected to the material plane of the world. Sever the connection, and the soul can't inhabit the physical body anymore. Thinking from this direction it's natural, even dwarves with their lack of magical ability are connected to the fade.



I think dwarves simply only lack magical talent, but can dream and surely have emotions. The tranquil mages are artificially severed from the fade through a ritual. I find it even more interesting, that they can survive that procedure, but it's fantasy magic.



Interesting is, that while the tranquil appear like robots with a body made of flesh, the golem, at least Shale, has a full personality and soul with an artificial body made of rock.

[SusanStoHelit]

I believe the argument is that dwarves cannot enter the Fade by themselves - but this does not prevent them from being forcibly taken there by magic. Indeed, humans cannot enter the Fade while awake unless they are mages - yet Alistair, Leliana, Sten, and so on may all be taken there by the same means.

[caelan63]

You know, I was just thinking the same thing...as I exited the fade and was happy that I won't have to do it again until my next character

[Zenon]

I'd like to add, that it seems Shale is rather unique in that. But the contrast is fascinating.



Furthermore I'd like to say, that in my theory maybe the dwarves living surrounded by lyrium have bodies, that built a physical resistance to lyrium to prevent the occasional bad effects of too strong lyrium exposure. Just remember the merchant, who keeps asking you for your lunch. So as the dwaven soul is connected to the fade, the physical body prevents active use of magic, because of a genetical lyrium immune system. At least that's how I came to a conclusion, which makes sense.

[T1l]

melkathi wrote...

So far what I understand people on this forum have agreed on is that, for the Sloth demon part, it is exactly that detail: you get pulled into the Fade and do not enter it by yourself.

This is correct. David Gaider was kind enough to elaborate in a fairly extensive thread about 6 weeks ago and stated that Dwarves can not naturally enter the Fade. They do not have a connection with it like other races do. It, also, has nothing to do with their proximity to Lyrium; rather, the fact that they are not connected to the Fade makes them resistant to it - therefore they are able to mine it with little of the ill effects.

You should be able to search for the thread in question, I have unfortunately forgotten what it was called though.

The end result was David's word being canonised somewhat; the thread and his comments are quoted on the Dwarf page on the Dragon Age Wiki if you're interested.

Modifié par T1l, 14 janvier 2010 - 11:19 .

[BeljoraDien]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

I believe the argument is that dwarves cannot enter the Fade by themselves - but this does not prevent them from being forcibly taken there by magic. Indeed, humans cannot enter the Fade while awake unless they are mages - yet Alistair, Leliana, Sten, and so on may all be taken there by the same means.

Yeah, but... the Sloth demon obviously puts you to sleep before taking you to the fade, so for the human characters, it makes sense, and I don't see a parallel.

[jsachun]

Magical Resistance



Dwarves do not naturally enter the Fade when they dream and do not tap into it, unlike Elves and Humans, though this does not mean they are barred from the Fade. Because of this, they have a resistence to magic, which also gives them a resistence to the dangerous effects of lyrium.



DragonAge Wikia.

[T1l]

Here's the thread. David layed it down beyond any doubt; Dwarves have no connection to the Fade. They can, however, be pulled into it against their will. He would not elaboarte as to why - but hinted at a possible future plot point.

[Zenon]

Having first played the game with my mage, it was normal to be fully aware within the fade. Still one hat to actively reject the sweet dream vision, that the war was over before being free to explore the demon's fade labyrinth. I guess this has to do with the strong will of the PC, who manages to wake up during the dream while being trapped in the fade, but aware of it's illusional nature. Still, the demon forcibly keeps them in this spirit-prison until the player overcomes and wins the fight against the demon.

[Zenon]

T1l wrote...

Here's the thread. David layed it down beyond any doubt; Dwarves have no connection to the Fade. They can, however, be pulled into it against their will. He would not elaboarte as to why - but hinted at a possible future plot point.

Thank you. I liked my speculation, but lore from "the maker" of DAO is of course superior.

[T1l]

Zenon wrote...

T1l wrote...

Here's the thread. David layed it down beyond any doubt; Dwarves have no connection to the Fade. They can, however, be pulled into it against their will. He would not elaboarte as to why - but hinted at a possible future plot point.

Thank you. I liked my speculation, but lore from "the maker" of DAO is of course superior.

You're quite welcome.

[SusanStoHelit]

BeljoraDien wrote...

Yeah, but... the Sloth demon obviously puts you to sleep before taking you to the fade, so for the human characters, it makes sense, and I don't see a parallel.

(my emphasis)

Really? I'm still awake when I enter. And standing on my feet. And when we reappear all my companions are still standing too. I don't dispute that it is possible we were all asleep. But there is no proof of that.

It was just simply magic.

Thanks for the link.

[AsheraII]

Just imagine the consequences! This means a dwarf can be turned into a mage and cast spells, as long as it's forced upon him against his own will

[MutantSpleen]

Thanks for the link T1l.

[SusanStoHelit]

AsheraII wrote...

Just imagine the consequences! This means a dwarf can be turned into a mage and cast spells, as long as it's forced upon him against his own will

I shouldn't think so. Being taken into the Fade by magic doesn't mean dwarves can do magic - any more than being taken into the sky by a plane means I can fly.

In both cases, the mechanic is that something external to the person involved carries out the act. They do not perform the act themselves.