299 réponses à ce sujet

[Dr_Extrem]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

only our view on it might alter over time but not the game.

"Our view" on anything subjective is the only thing that matters. Therefore, Mass Effect is not static.

This is especially true for video games, which can become outdated in ways that movies and books cannot. In other ways, a game's story like Silent Hill 2 can become MORE appreciated over time.

but mass effect does not change on an objective plane. it stays as it is - as long, as the devs do not alter it.

what changes is our view on it. our view on older games is altered by experiencing new games, stories and tech.

What is your point? The entire ability to observe anything in the world is done purley through our perspectives. There is not some objective way of looking at something that doesn't invovled looking at it using our past experiences, ideas, and thoughts. That is how our outlooks on things are formed, how our outlooks change.

Take Vincient van gogh's paintings for example. They were considered horrible in his time, but later came to be appreciated as something good. That was done through a change of how people viewed art and what was considered beautiful and 'good' in art.

So you saying "crap is crap" and following immediatly by saying that only peoples perceptions change, is a complete paradox and contridiction, because your statement of it being crap is merely a perspective that is subject to change with time.

nope .. the ability to deem something as acceptable (or not) is affected by our perspective - not the observation itself.

van gogh's pictures are stiil the same.


the crap is crap statement was metaphorical

Yes, but you stated from your post that the endings were objectively 'crap' or bad. When it being bad or not is purley perspective.

well .. the endings have objective flaws and problems with continuity. these objective observations make the endings objectively bad.

that people find it subjectively good (despite the problems), is a different thing.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Yes yes, the EC didn't fix everything, the tech singularity is outdated and still makes no sense, the choices still all suck to some degree, the Catalyst is still a tw*t and still is undeserving of consideration. There is - intentionally - no "official" closure on the remainder of Shepard's life, or his/her lasting legacy in the eyes of important characters and not space grandpas.

They say a person never truly dies until their name never crosses the lips of anyone ever again, and the ending fiasco won't die until no one ever speaks of Mass Effect again. That's going to be a long time to beat a dead horse. So, I think for the sake of everyone's sanity we should just agree to disagree; there are still things wrong with the endings, and it's okay for people to either overlook them or continue to froth. I personally have friends on both ends of the spectrum, but at the end of the day they're my friends and I love talking ME with them all the same.

[Khelish]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Khelish wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...


4. Adding blood on Tali, who would no be able to survive that

Nope.

We evac her.

SR2 has a med bay, in case you forgot.

off course its not the blood loss that is going to kill her - its the billions of microorganisms / gramm of soil.

blood on her suit imply heavy suit damage. heavy suit damage means, exposure to earth and dirt. earth and dirt contain billions of microorganisms / gram. this leads to an allergic reation on talis skin (if she is lucky) or to a full blown infection if this gets into her bloodstream.

She is lucky, because she doesn't die.

Having a suit rupture =/= Death

[BlameTheTank]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Khelish wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...


4. Adding blood on Tali, who would no be able to survive that

Nope.

We evac her.

SR2 has a med bay, in case you forgot.

off course its not the blood loss that is going to kill her - its the billions of microorganisms / gramm of soil.

blood on her suit imply heavy suit damage. heavy suit damage means, exposure to earth and dirt. earth and dirt contain billions of microorganisms / gram. this leads to an allergic reation on talis skin (if she is lucky) or to a full blown infection if this gets into her bloodstream.

Yes, which is why they need to get her to sick bay and start decontaminating her immediatly while her suits own defenses managed to hold off the allergic reaction in what limited way it can.

Well, as the EC told us, it takes 5 seconds for Normandy to leave the orbit, bypass all fighting and land on a specific point on the planet, so her suit had to "fight off" (how?) the bacteria for about 15 sec before they got her to med bay.


Really....

[Dr_Extrem]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Khelish wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...


4. Adding blood on Tali, who would no be able to survive that

Nope.

We evac her.

SR2 has a med bay, in case you forgot.

off course its not the blood loss that is going to kill her - its the billions of microorganisms / gramm of soil.

blood on her suit imply heavy suit damage. heavy suit damage means, exposure to earth and dirt. earth and dirt contain billions of microorganisms / gram. this leads to an allergic reation on talis skin (if she is lucky) or to a full blown infection if this gets into her bloodstream.

Yes, which is why they need to get her to sick bay and start decontaminating her immediatly while her suits own defenses managed to hold off the allergic reaction in what limited way it can.

she will still show a very heavy reaction. remember me2 - where tali had a small suit punkture and despite her quick reaction she got fever (this was only a very limited exposure). kal reagar lied in bed for weeks - and he was swimming in antibiotics.

if the microorganisms get into tlais bloodstream, she is done.

[Dr_Extrem]

BlameTheTank wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Khelish wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...


4. Adding blood on Tali, who would no be able to survive that

Nope.

We evac her.

SR2 has a med bay, in case you forgot.

off course its not the blood loss that is going to kill her - its the billions of microorganisms / gramm of soil.

blood on her suit imply heavy suit damage. heavy suit damage means, exposure to earth and dirt. earth and dirt contain billions of microorganisms / gram. this leads to an allergic reation on talis skin (if she is lucky) or to a full blown infection if this gets into her bloodstream.

Yes, which is why they need to get her to sick bay and start decontaminating her immediatly while her suits own defenses managed to hold off the allergic reaction in what limited way it can.

Well, as the EC told us, it takes 5 seconds for Normandy to leave the orbit, bypass all fighting and land on a specific point on the planet, so her suit had to "fight off" (how?) the bacteria for about 15 sec before they got her to med bay.


Really....

dont mention this scene .. my eyes twitch every time i have to think of it.

[Khelish]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

if the microorganisms get into tlais bloodstream, she is done.

Again, considering we see her at the end, she doesn't die from the exposure.

This really isn't up for debate.

[phillip100]

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

[JamesFaith]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Khelish wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...


4. Adding blood on Tali, who would no be able to survive that

Nope.

We evac her.

SR2 has a med bay, in case you forgot.

off course its not the blood loss that is going to kill her - its the billions of microorganisms / gramm of soil.

blood on her suit imply heavy suit damage. heavy suit damage means, exposure to earth and dirt. earth and dirt contain billions of microorganisms / gram. this leads to an allergic reation on talis skin (if she is lucky) or to a full blown infection if this gets into her bloodstream.

"Combat seals clamped down to isolate contamination, and I'm swimming in antibiotics. The geth might get me, but I'm not going to die from an infection in the middle of a battle."

Kal'Reegar

And he surived it.

[Dr_Extrem]

Khelish wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

if the microorganisms get into tlais bloodstream, she is done.

Again, considering we see her at the end, she doesn't die from the exposure.

This really isn't up for debate.

nope she does not .. that is one of the flaws mentioned, because it contradicts established lore.

kal reagar did not die either BUT: he was swimming in antibiotics and it was ony a small suit punkture and he lied in bed for two weeks (he was lucky to get only a minor infection). btw. he was wounded on heastrom - a place, that gets hammered with solar radiation - radiaton that hampers bacteria groth.


by the amount of blood on talis suit, its safe to assume, that is is not only a small puncture but a big rupture. in addition, the amount of blood implies a heavy, strong bleeding wound - if this wound gets dirty, bacteria from air and soil will get into her bloodstream.

JamesFaith wrote...



"Combat seals clamped down to isolate contamination, and I'm swimming in antibiotics. The geth might get me, but I'm not going to die from an infection in the middle of a battle."

Kal'Reegar

And he surived it.

infections or the quarien equivalent kill slowly but steady.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 20 mars 2013 - 08:38 .

[BlameTheTank]

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Why did Joker escape? Fleet were suppose to get to randezvous point, so how come Normandy crashed on a planet? Is Normany slower than all the ships that were there? Everyone made it but Normandy? If they had randezvous point they knew the coordinates so it was the matter of pressing "go to these coordinates" yet they happened to get... where exactly?

[Mr.House]

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Joker would never run away.

[Khelish]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

nope she does not .. that is one of the flaws mentioned, because it contradicts established lore.

No it doesn't. Suit rupture =/= Death.

While many people that get suit ruptures die, Tali is one of the lucky ones.

kal reagar did not die either BUT: he was swimming in antibiotics and it was ony a small suit punkture and he lied in bed for two weeks (he was lucky to get only a minor infection). btw. he was wounded on heastrom - a place, that gets hammered with solar radiation - radiaton that hampers bacteria groth.

... and? Who's to say Tali didn't have anti-biotics?

by the amount of blood on talis suit, its safe to assume, that is is not only a small puncture but a big rupture. in addition, the amount of blood implies a heavy, strong bleeding wound - if this wound gets dirty, bacteria from air and soil will get into her bloodstream.

Again, the fact she is alive by the end, proves no bacteria got in.

infections or the quarien equivalent kills slowly but steady.

Hence, evac. This really isn't that hard to grasp.

[Dr_Extrem]

Mr.House wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Joker would never run away.

or garrus ... this scene hurts so much ..


the best combination is:

- edi gets "wounded" in london
- garrus tells joker to fly away
- joker obeys

[phillip100]

Mr.House wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Joker would never run away.

He had to because all fleets were ordered to disengage and evacuate after the Crucible was armed. Also, nobody knew exactly how the Crucible worked, which is why they had to evacuate.

[valkulon]

Stop trying to shove your opinion down my throat as I've never tried to shove my opinion down your throat.

[Dr_Extrem]

Khelish wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

nope she does not .. that is one of the flaws mentioned, because it contradicts established lore.

No it doesn't. Suit rupture =/= Death.

While many people that get suit ruptures die, Tali is one of the lucky ones.

kal reagar did not die either BUT: he was swimming in antibiotics and it was ony a small suit punkture and he lied in bed for two weeks (he was lucky to get only a minor infection). btw. he was wounded on heastrom - a place, that gets hammered with solar radiation - radiaton that hampers bacteria groth.

... and? Who's to say Tali didn't have anti-biotics?

by the amount of blood on talis suit, its safe to assume, that is is not only a small puncture but a big rupture. in addition, the amount of blood implies a heavy, strong bleeding wound - if this wound gets dirty, bacteria from air and soil will get into her bloodstream.

Again, the fact she is alive by the end, proves no bacteria got in.

infections or the quarien equivalent kills slowly but steady.

Hence, evac. This really isn't that hard to grasp.

dont get me wrong . its great that tali survives but in this case, she is lucky beyond luck. the fact that she does not die of infection is a borderline miracle, that is not backed by what we know.

peopel are willing to handwave these flaws, because its tali - and we all (including me) love her.


the evac scene is the greatest screw up in the ec .. 6 seconds .. the normandy is fighting reapers in orbit and joker needs 5 seconds to get to london .. the hull of the ship has to be white glowing the moment he arrives. not to mention the fact that the most intelligent reaper is not able to make a visual identification of the normandy.

[Dr_Extrem]

phillip100 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Joker would never run away.

He had to because all fleets were ordered to disengage and evacuate after the Crucible was armed. Also, nobody knew exactly how the Crucible worked, which is why they had to evacuate.

and that makes no sense at all. what if the crucible only had overloaded the reapers barriers?

if you dont know what happens, you wait until you know it and react accordingly.

[Khelish]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

I'm not debating the SR2 getting there that fast was realistic. In fact, I dislike it.

I was saying that what happens with Tali is indeed a miracle within the game. Only people that would complain about Tali surviving are people trying to trash the EC beyond belief.

[JamesFaith]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

"Combat seals clamped down to isolate contamination, and I'm swimming in antibiotics. The geth might get me, but I'm not going to die from an infection in the middle of a battle."

Kal'Reegar

And he surived it.

infections or the quarien equivalent kill slowly but steady.

And yet Kal'Reegar survived it, you met him in Fleet later and he died during Reaper war months later.

Also how many symptoms you can see on Tali when she got his bodysuit? She could have problems with skin, with breathing, fever and so on, but with good cures and stimulants she can do what she did in that last cutscene.

[BlameTheTank]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

BlameTheTank wrote...

EC didn`t explain ANYTHING.

So the EC didn't explain how Admiral Hackett knew that Shepard made it to the Citadel and why Joker ran away when the Crucible was activated?

Joker would never run away.

or garrus ... this scene hurts so much ..


the best combination is:

- edi gets "wounded" in london
- garrus tells joker to fly away
- joker obeys

and Shep tells EDI to go back to ship to defending it (EDI is ALWAYS on the ship anyway)

One of my fav things in ending:

Missplacing the Sol system lol

Modifié par BlameTheTank, 20 mars 2013 - 08:50 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Joker would never run away. 

Not trying to be rude, but this is arrogance speaking. That's like telling a writer that a character that THEY wrote would never do something THEY made them do. I personally would find it very offensive.

In short, yes he would have, because he did--the people that wrote him wrote him doing that.

We've already seen in ME3 the writers didn't keep the characters consistent, and Joker was one of them. Also, several characters (including Joker) had different writers in ME3 than they did any other time in the series. Just because a writer wrote something for a character doesn't mean it's in-character. (Since when was Joker ever bothered by regs? Mr. Never-shave, Eff-you-Alliance-I'm-joining-Cerberus-and-Shepard...)

[Dr_Extrem]

Khelish wrote...

Dr_Extrem wrote...

I'm not debating the SR2 getting there that fast was realistic. In fact, I dislike it.

I was saying that what happens with Tali is indeed a miracle within the game. Only people that would complain about Tali surviving are people trying to trash the EC beyond belief.

i was not complaining that she survives - i only find it hard to believe.

they should have refrained from covering her suit with litres of her blood and it would have been fine. its the presentation that makes it hard to believe.

[phillip100]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

phillip100 wrote...

He had to because all fleets were ordered to disengage and evacuate after the Crucible was armed. Also, nobody knew exactly how the Crucible worked, which is why they had to evacuate.

and that makes no sense at all. what if the crucible only had overloaded the reapers barriers?

if you dont know what happens, you wait until you know it and react accordingly.

What if the Crucible backfired and destroyed the entire fleet? Would you wait knowing that it might happen?

Modifié par phillip100, 20 mars 2013 - 08:57 .