374 réponses à ce sujet

[Zero132132]

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Well, I sincerely hope you have great mathematical skills because your writing skills are akin to those of a 1st grader.

Is this on topic? If we're getting to personal insults, can I start making bald jokes, or mocking people for putting ridiculous amounts of time into youtube videos?

Wouldn't it be better to just drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which is framerates and how they impact difficulty?

Don't act like a child if you want to pretend that you're a wise old man.

Bald jokes? That's so 80's. I haven't had hair for almost 15 years and it looks good on me so insult away and your X-box colleage has been putting forth bad arguments throughout the thread, bolsted by extremely poor writing, so there is a context.  Regarding youtube videos, at least they have helped people, which is more than I can say for some of the stuff that has been said in this thread.

You missed the point, so I'm bolding it for you. 

Reading comprehension FTW!

[Stardusk]

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Well, I sincerely hope you have great mathematical skills because your writing skills are akin to those of a 1st grader.

Is this on topic? If we're getting to personal insults, can I start making bald jokes, or mocking people for putting ridiculous amounts of time into youtube videos?

Wouldn't it be better to just drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which is framerates and how they impact difficulty?

Don't act like a child if you want to pretend that you're a wise old man.

Bald jokes? That's so 80's. I haven't had hair for almost 15 years and it looks good on me so insult away and your X-box colleage has been putting forth bad arguments throughout the thread, bolsted by extremely poor writing, so there is a context.  Regarding youtube videos, at least they have helped people, which is more than I can say for some of the stuff that has been said in this thread.

You missed the point, so I'm bolding it for you. 

Reading comprehension FTW!

It is hard to stick to topic when your X-box colleage is making claims along the lines of higher DPS at higher frame rates. There is no evidence for that.

[RoundedPlanet88]

upinya slayin wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Also there is something interesting,

low FPS also affect weapons like Typhoon.

Typhoon at a low FPS doesn't deal the same damage as Typhoon over 30 FPS.

Test it.

correct when PC playuers lower their framarte the enemies get easier but weapons do less damage. again EVERYTHING scales

some people are too hard headed to believe their great lifelong ahcievment of bing decent at a video game might have an asterisk next to it lol

and they use lame 3rd grade insults and then call others immature.

Irony. Delicious.
3rd, no, 2nd grade spelling: grade? F

the moment when the best argument someone has against you is your typing skills is the moment you know they realized they are wrong. thank you for admitting your faults:innocent:

The moment someone refuses to ever admit they are wrong is the moment that you know it`s a waste of time telling them how wrong they are over and over again. I thought that my point highlighted how immature your posts have been so far rather well, but you next post confirms it even further.

[upinya slayin]

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Well, I sincerely hope you have great mathematical skills because your writing skills are akin to those of a 1st grader.

Is this on topic? If we're getting to personal insults, can I start making bald jokes, or mocking people for putting ridiculous amounts of time into youtube videos?

Wouldn't it be better to just drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which is framerates and how they impact difficulty?

Don't act like a child if you want to pretend that you're a wise old man.

Bald jokes? That's so 80's. I haven't had hair for almost 15 years and it looks good on me so insult away and your X-box colleage has been putting forth bad arguments throughout the thread, bolsted by extremely poor writing, so there is a context.  Regarding youtube videos, at least they have helped people, which is more than I can say for some of the stuff that has been said in this thread.

You missed the point, so I'm bolding it for you. 

Reading comprehension FTW!

It is hard to stick to topic when your X-box colleage is making claims along the lines of higher DPS at higher frame rates. There is no evidence for that.

i could easily say there is no evidence against it and put the burden of proof on you. i do remember it being proven it does i just can't remember exactly where. there are probably over 10K posts on this forum and the search feature sucks so um yeah don't feel like finding it.

and still you can state that w/o the insults you chose to go teh insult route as your best way of making an agument so tahts on you buddy

[CmnDwnWrkn]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

What happens if you set UseVSync to False?

From what I've read, that's strictly a video setting that syncs the game framerate with the PC monitor refresh rate.  My understanding is having this off can make the game look bad on the screen, but it should have nothing to do with how the game plays.

Pretty much. The GPU (the graphics processor) usually has two buffers (places where finished frames are stored before being sent to the monitor for display). One front buffer and one back buffer. The front buffer is the one where the final frame is stored. This frame is then "drawn" on the screen. Imagine a situation where the front buffer is being read out and being displayed, but while this is happening midway, the contents of the back buffer overwrite the contents of the front buffer. This results in image corruption, or what is usually referred to as screen tearing.

If you turn on VSync, the front buffer is updated from the back buffer only when all the contents of the front buffer are displayed on the screen. This eliminates screen tearing, sure, but it reduces performance and hence FPS, since now the GPU has to stall before updating the buffers.

Nice explanation.  Do you have programming experience with the Unreal engine?

[MaxShine]

upinya slayin wrote...

keep reading. i'm not gonna chekc your math but it does get admittied that guns like the tphoon mow ebemies down faster at higher framerates.

someone should make a video use a gold atlas as a standard do it at 30,60,90, and 120 FPS with same charaacter and consumables and time how long it takes to kill each one. the higher framerate teh atlas will die faster.

Nope... Deep inside you know that you have no idea what you are talking about...

This is the relation between ROF and FPS... based on the example I made above. You see that the zigzag behaviour is very similar to Caratinoid's graph where he calculated shield recharge based on FPS...


It does not get higher the more FPS you have... The rounding errors will never give you a higher ROF than intended...

[upinya slayin]

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Also there is something interesting,

low FPS also affect weapons like Typhoon.

Typhoon at a low FPS doesn't deal the same damage as Typhoon over 30 FPS.

Test it.

correct when PC playuers lower their framarte the enemies get easier but weapons do less damage. again EVERYTHING scales

some people are too hard headed to believe their great lifelong ahcievment of bing decent at a video game might have an asterisk next to it lol

and they use lame 3rd grade insults and then call others immature.

Irony. Delicious.
3rd, no, 2nd grade spelling: grade? F

the moment when the best argument someone has against you is your typing skills is the moment you know they realized they are wrong. thank you for admitting your faults:innocent:

The moment someone refuses to ever admit they are wrong is the moment that you know it`s a waste of time telling them how wrong they are over and over again. I thought that my point highlighted how immature your posts have been so far rather well, but you next post confirms it even further.

I do make alot of immature posts cause its for the laughs. i never said otehrwise. this thread however hasn't had them until the whole insults thing started. i have no issues admitting when i'm wrong. its just a game some people take it way to seirously. How many times do the PC peeps make degrading comments at us console peasents, i don't come back with chilish personal attacks i ignore it. and some of it is even funny. maybe you should grow thicker skin if you can't take a joke or a difference of opinion.

[upinya slayin]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

keep reading. i'm not gonna chekc your math but it does get admittied that guns like the tphoon mow ebemies down faster at higher framerates.

someone should make a video use a gold atlas as a standard do it at 30,60,90, and 120 FPS with same charaacter and consumables and time how long it takes to kill each one. the higher framerate teh atlas will die faster.

Nope... Deep inside you know that you have no idea what you are talking about...

This is the relation between ROF and FPS... based on the example I made above. You see that the zigzag behaviour is very similar to Caratinoid's graph where he calculated shield recharge based on FPS...


It does not get higher the more FPS you have... The rounding errors will never give you a higher ROF than intended...

where is the constant value aka the ROF that BW says the weapon has?

[Stardusk]

upinya slayin wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Well, I sincerely hope you have great mathematical skills because your writing skills are akin to those of a 1st grader.

Is this on topic? If we're getting to personal insults, can I start making bald jokes, or mocking people for putting ridiculous amounts of time into youtube videos?

Wouldn't it be better to just drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which is framerates and how they impact difficulty?

Don't act like a child if you want to pretend that you're a wise old man.

Bald jokes? That's so 80's. I haven't had hair for almost 15 years and it looks good on me so insult away and your X-box colleage has been putting forth bad arguments throughout the thread, bolsted by extremely poor writing, so there is a context.  Regarding youtube videos, at least they have helped people, which is more than I can say for some of the stuff that has been said in this thread.

You missed the point, so I'm bolding it for you. 

Reading comprehension FTW!

It is hard to stick to topic when your X-box colleage is making claims along the lines of higher DPS at higher frame rates. There is no evidence for that.

i could easily say there is no evidence against it and put the burden of proof on you. i do remember it being proven it does i just can't remember exactly where. there are probably over 10K posts on this forum and the search feature sucks so um yeah don't feel like finding it.

and still you can state that w/o the insults you chose to go teh insult route as your best way of making an agument so tahts on you buddy

Incorrect. When someone makes a positive assertion about something without requisite evidence to support said claim  it is up to THAT individual to provide evidene to support the argument, i.e. loudly proclaiming higher frame rates= better DPS. You have produced no evidence to support the claim and like a fundamentalist, insist that the burden is upon your detractors to disprove a non-evidentiary claim you blurted out. In some circles we call this failure.

[RoundedPlanet88]

upinya slayin wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

RoundedPlanet88 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Also there is something interesting,

low FPS also affect weapons like Typhoon.

Typhoon at a low FPS doesn't deal the same damage as Typhoon over 30 FPS.

Test it.

correct when PC playuers lower their framarte the enemies get easier but weapons do less damage. again EVERYTHING scales

some people are too hard headed to believe their great lifelong ahcievment of bing decent at a video game might have an asterisk next to it lol

and they use lame 3rd grade insults and then call others immature.

Irony. Delicious.
3rd, no, 2nd grade spelling: grade? F

the moment when the best argument someone has against you is your typing skills is the moment you know they realized they are wrong. thank you for admitting your faults:innocent:

The moment someone refuses to ever admit they are wrong is the moment that you know it`s a waste of time telling them how wrong they are over and over again. I thought that my point highlighted how immature your posts have been so far rather well, but you next post confirms it even further.

I do make alot of immature posts cause its for the laughs. i never said otehrwise. this thread however hasn't had them until the whole insults thing started. i have no issues admitting when i'm wrong. its just a game some people take it way to seirously. How many times do the PC peeps make degrading comments at us console peasents, i don't come back with chilish personal attacks i ignore it. and some of it is even funny. maybe you should grow thicker skin if you can't take a joke or a difference of opinion.

first off, its odd how the PC community does not degrade the xbox community nearly as much as the reverse. It says something, and I`m not going to bother exploring that right now. Second off, despite all the proof contrary to you OPINION, you have yet to admit that you are wrong. And lastly, as near as I can tell, the vast majority of "namecalling" in this thread has YOUR name next to it. And quite frankly, you obviously don`t "ignore it", otherwise you would have not made half the posts that you did in this thread alone. As for a thicker skin, sure, attack me personally for what again? pointing out how wrong/immature you`ve been in this thread? If you don`t like people pointing out how idiotic you sound, maybe you should you know? grow a thicker skin? or not post? Oh wait, that would be logical.

[Zero132132]

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Well, I sincerely hope you have great mathematical skills because your writing skills are akin to those of a 1st grader.

Is this on topic? If we're getting to personal insults, can I start making bald jokes, or mocking people for putting ridiculous amounts of time into youtube videos?

Wouldn't it be better to just drop it and stick to the topic at hand, which is framerates and how they impact difficulty?

Don't act like a child if you want to pretend that you're a wise old man.

Bald jokes? That's so 80's. I haven't had hair for almost 15 years and it looks good on me so insult away and your X-box colleage has been putting forth bad arguments throughout the thread, bolsted by extremely poor writing, so there is a context.  Regarding youtube videos, at least they have helped people, which is more than I can say for some of the stuff that has been said in this thread.

You missed the point, so I'm bolding it for you. 

Reading comprehension FTW!

It is hard to stick to topic when your X-box colleage is making claims along the lines of higher DPS at higher frame rates. There is no evidence for that.

No, it really isn't. I managed it a few pages ago. I tried to point out that they were talking about RoF and high RoF weapons, not the specifics of damage. I did it without resorting to insults. You can too. Truthfully, I didn't see you even responding to the central claim with any sort of argument. You just insinuated that he was stupid without touching the argument at all.

Regarding the actual topic, since Caratinoid (sp?) made a thread proclaiming that he'd found a way to disconnect visual FPS from the aspect that affects difficulty, I think it's fair to say that it's possible with the game's engine. What I saw at 30 FPS here doesn't match Xbox gameplay. Watch ME3 MP gameplay vids from those on Xbox and it'll be apparent that enemies have better tracking than they do on PC at 30 FPS.

I want to see someone with recording equipment do about what they did there. I only know a handful of Xboxers with recording equipment, though.

[MaxShine]

upinya slayin wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

keep reading. i'm not gonna chekc your math but it does get admittied that guns like the tphoon mow ebemies down faster at higher framerates.

someone should make a video use a gold atlas as a standard do it at 30,60,90, and 120 FPS with same charaacter and consumables and time how long it takes to kill each one. the higher framerate teh atlas will die faster.

Nope... Deep inside you know that you have no idea what you are talking about...

This is the relation between ROF and FPS... based on the example I made above. You see that the zigzag behaviour is very similar to Caratinoid's graph where he calculated shield recharge based on FPS...

It does not get higher the more FPS you have... The rounding errors will never give you a higher ROF than intended...

where is the constant value aka the ROF that BW says the weapon has?

ROF cannot be constant for all systems when you calculate it based on FPS(which is a variable)... Duh...
Not to confuse you anymore I will explain it more simple :
When you get 62 FPS you will mow down stuff a little bit faster with a Typhoon than when you have 21 FPS, but when you have 500FPS it will be either the same as 62FPS or less (62FPS is an optimal value, this is why it is the default FPS that is set in the Bioware configuration)

[upinya slayin]

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

[MichaelFinnegan]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

Pretty much. The GPU (the graphics processor) usually has two buffers (places where finished frames are stored before being sent to the monitor for display). One front buffer and one back buffer. The front buffer is the one where the final frame is stored. This frame is then "drawn" on the screen. Imagine a situation where the front buffer is being read out and being displayed, but while this is happening midway, the contents of the back buffer overwrite the contents of the front buffer. This results in image corruption, or what is usually referred to as screen tearing.

If you turn on VSync, the front buffer is updated from the back buffer only when all the contents of the front buffer are displayed on the screen. This eliminates screen tearing, sure, but it reduces performance and hence FPS, since now the GPU has to stall before updating the buffers.

Nice explanation.

Thanks.

Do you have programming experience with the Unreal engine?

Well, no. What I explained above has more to do with how the hardware works, at least to the best of my knowledge on the subject. The thing about the FPS affecting how the game behaves is more or less guesswork, which is probably not all that far from what's going on, given my own and other peoples' observations.

[cowwy]

upinya slayin wrote...

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

It's an atlas. That's a bad test because of the double and triple hit bugs.

Show it on a Brute and then we'll have some definite evidence.

Edit: Also first of all the Xbox one was using a stability mod. Why? Second of all in half the clips he was missing the atlas or was shooting the arm.

Modifié par cowwy, 21 mars 2013 - 06:27 .

[Ziegrif]

This thread in a nutshell.

Seriously people?!

When the hell did this game become about arguing how many frames per shiskebab,  makes burritos on third night with 8 pieces of red onions sprinkled on top and then you put some goooood sweet sauce on that burrito, some cucumbers, spiced meat a good tasty flat bread and then you mix the **** out of them and what do you get?

FPS!!

[upinya slayin]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

100RenegadePoints wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

keep reading. i'm not gonna chekc your math but it does get admittied that guns like the tphoon mow ebemies down faster at higher framerates.

someone should make a video use a gold atlas as a standard do it at 30,60,90, and 120 FPS with same charaacter and consumables and time how long it takes to kill each one. the higher framerate teh atlas will die faster.

Nope... Deep inside you know that you have no idea what you are talking about...

This is the relation between ROF and FPS... based on the example I made above. You see that the zigzag behaviour is very similar to Caratinoid's graph where he calculated shield recharge based on FPS...

It does not get higher the more FPS you have... The rounding errors will never give you a higher ROF than intended...

where is the constant value aka the ROF that BW says the weapon has?

ROF cannot be constant for all systems when you calculate it based on FPS(which is a variable)... Duh...
Not to confuse you anymore I will explain it more simple :
When you get 62 FPS you will mow down stuff a little bit faster with a Typhoon than when you have 21 FPS, but when you have 500FPS it will be either the same as 62FPS or less (62FPS is an optimal value, this is why it is the default FPS that is set in the Bioware configuration)

but console is at 30FPS so even if wepaons max out at 62FPS a PC running at 60 hsould do more then a console at 30 based on what you just said, is that correct?

[Zero132132]

upinya slayin wrote...

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

PC vid doesn't show the loadout/setup, but it looked to me like it took longer for the clip to run out, so I think the difference may have been because the xbox one used a stability mod instead of the clip increase one. Could be completely wrong, though.

EDIT: Nevermind. 5 seconds to run the full clip for each.

And that's a big damned difference, not a little one.

Modifié par Zero132132, 21 mars 2013 - 06:27 .

[Kaall]

RedJohn wrote...

I really doubt the game was designed to work at 30 FPS on PC.

I didn't said that the game was designed to be played at 30 fps on PC, but that the difficulty we are intended to play on is the one we get when we are at 30 fps.

That means we should be able to experience what is the actual 30 fps enemy AI/reaction time and our shield regen&delay at higher fps.

But what do you want, this is a part that has been poorly coded and we cannot do anything about it, we have to choose what poison we want to play on, either we play at 30 fps to enoy the true difficulty of the game, or we choose more fluidity knowing that the challenge will be more consequent without any further reward.

As for the appology, thank you but it really was not needed, you way not know me but i at leas know you , and i know you are someone fair.

[upinya slayin]

cowwy wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

It's an atlas. That's a bad test because of the double and triple hit bugs.

Show it on a Brute and then we'll have some definite evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCUNQ0ax7c

our very own fenekus mows down a gold atlas in 5 seconds and leaves 41 bullets in his clip on the typhoon. somehting not achievable on conosle. whats the explanaiton other then FPS?

he does reapers too in the video. mosing down brutes in seconds.

Modifié par upinya slayin, 21 mars 2013 - 06:30 .

[MaxShine]

upinya slayin wrote...

but console is at 30FPS so even if wepaons max out at 62FPS a PC running at 60 hsould do more then a console at 30 based on what you just said, is that correct?

It depends on some numbers, but to keep it simple I will say it is correct

[cowwy]

upinya slayin wrote...

cowwy wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

It's an atlas. That's a bad test because of the double and triple hit bugs.

Show it on a Brute and then we'll have some definite evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCUNQ0ax7c

our very own fenekus mows down a gold atlas in 5 seconds and leaves 41 bullets in his clip on the typhoon. somehting not achievable on conosle. whats the explanaiton other then FPS?

It would be achievable if they'd used a clip mod. As I said they were using a worthless stability mod and missing a lot of shots.

[Das Rouse]

Ziegrif wrote...

This thread in a nutshell.

Seriously people?!

When the hell did this game become about arguing how many frames per shiskebab,  makes burritos on third night with 8 pieces of red onions sprinkled on top and then you put some goooood sweet sauce on that burrito, some cucumbers, spiced meat a good tasty flat bread and then you mix the **** out of them and what do you get?

FPS!!

Your ****ing up a burrito that way.
Hot Sauce or GTFO

[upinya slayin]

100RenegadePoints wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

but console is at 30FPS so even if wepaons max out at 62FPS a PC running at 60 hsould do more then a console at 30 based on what you just said, is that correct?

It depends on some numbers, but to keep it simple I will say it is correct

honestly that was the only thing i said and it is whats started the flame war.

[upinya slayin]

cowwy wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

cowwy wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

PC

leaves 1 bar of armor after a clip kills in 9 seconds
:02 to :11
xbox

leaves half armor kills in 11 seconds
1:33-1:44 on vid

It's an atlas. That's a bad test because of the double and triple hit bugs.

Show it on a Brute and then we'll have some definite evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SCUNQ0ax7c

our very own fenekus mows down a gold atlas in 5 seconds and leaves 41 bullets in his clip on the typhoon. somehting not achievable on conosle. whats the explanaiton other then FPS?

It would be achievable if they'd used a clip mod. As I said they were using a worthless stability mod and missing a lot of shots.

watch the fenekus vid. he mows things down with it way faster then on console even with full amps