374 réponses à ce sujet

[upinya slayin]

Geek Fest wrote...

For those interested I tried the same setup, just solo. I got hit more but again I was solo. I was able to duplicate some of it but ran into problems having to stop at the top of the ramp to turn to go back into the hallway. Where I was most mobile I could duplicate most of it at least was able to keep from going down while I was running. Sometimes I would get down to health gate.

So what I've learned:
1. There is clearly a difference on pc, but it doesn't appear to be gamebreaking as they were usually able to running circles around the enemies either way.
2. Running controls on xbox suck and make it impossible to get an accurate comparison. Even a controller plugged into a pc wouldn't have the same turning issues.

The experiment here is more a test of running through enemies and less of actual gameplay. Most people use right hand advantage to avoid getting shot instead of spending the whole time running through a crowd. It isn't as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

even with the onza controller which allows you to run and turn since you can remap the A buton to a bumper, the maera won't let you do it.

they mad a ME3 controller to allow you to run and turn but the game itself won't allow it anyone:blink:

[upinya slayin]

cowwy wrote...

High Lord Bacon the Fourth wrote...

Xbox playtime 600+ hours
PC playtime 350 hours

1. Enemy AI acts the same when playing at similar frame-rates on eggsbawks and Pee-Cee (I've tested this)
2. Xbox IDEALLY plays at 30 FPS, but likely slows down to 20+ when too many things are happening
3. While sprinting perpindicular to fire on xbox or when weaving back-and-forth the AI misses just as much when playing at 30 and >30 on PC
4. PC can take advantage of bad enemy AI more (when capped at low FPS) which makes it look "easier" than xbox framerate
5. There is NO discernable difference between DPS on xbox and PC
6. bad controls are the bane of xbox
7. tougher enemies are the bane of PC
8. Difficulty can't be accurately compared between platforms. It's like comparing F1 to NASCAR, Michael Schumacher and Dale Earnhardt were both top-tier in their "platform" but it cannot be argued that one is a "better" racecar driver.
9. Go home you're all drunk

BACON4BREAKFAST wantd to say this but he was banned. Also he requested that he be referred to as Lord Bacon.

@9 lol i wish i was drunk right now.

[Ziegrif]

cowwy wrote...
BACON4BREAKFAST wantd to say this but he was banned. Also he requested that he be referred to as Lord Bacon.

The hell did he do now?!

[jakenou]

High Lord Bacon the Fourth wrote...

Xbox playtime 600+ hours
PC playtime 350 hours

1. Enemy AI acts the same when playing at similar frame-rates on eggsbawks and Pee-Cee (I've tested this)
2. Xbox IDEALLY plays at 30 FPS, but likely slows down to 20+ when too many things are happening
3. While sprinting perpindicular to fire on xbox or when weaving back-and-forth the AI misses just as much when playing at 30 and >30 on PC
4. PC can take advantage of bad enemy AI more (when capped at low FPS) which makes it look "easier" than xbox framerate
5. There is NO discernable difference between DPS on xbox and PC
6. bad controls are the bane of xbox
7. tougher enemies are the bane of PC
8. Difficulty can't be accurately compared between platforms. It's like comparing F1 to NASCAR, Michael Schumacher and Dale Earnhardt were both top-tier in their "platform" but it cannot be argued that one is a "better" racecar driver.
9. Go home you're all drunk

I haven't tested by capping framerate on PC, but I generally agree with all of this. I've put in ~ 400 hours on each (have a little bit of catching up to do on PC atm). 6 and 7 are what really balances the game across platforms IMO. Console AI may be dumbed down from framerate, but we can't respond nearly as well as on PC. Xbox feels like I'm trudging through mud trying to move around and making powers/weapons work when I compare it to PC. Even with a brand new vanilla MS controller, the Dpad still won't let me choose what consumables I want to use. It has a mind of it's own. I've tried multiple controllers, including the Onza, to try and get better responsiveness but it's poor no matter what you do.

Edit - And we can run and turn on Xbox, just barely. Forget about tight turns, but a wide arc is doable.

Modifié par jkthunder, 21 mars 2013 - 07:22 .

[Feneckus]

For that ROF thing, can an xboxer try a Destroyer, full weapon spec, Typhoon X, extended mag, HVB, Warp IV, Assault Rifle Amp III and Assault Rifle Amp V vs a Gold Praetorian ?

It doesn't have double/tripe hit bug as far as I know, on or off host should be irrelevant and it should be easy enough to get headshots.

It should look like this

[Caratinoid]

RedJohn wrote...

Guys I think you are taking things in a different context.

Framerate seems to affect the amount of bullets that reach the target but not the damage itself.

It doesn't affect RoF or damage but it does affect the amount of bullets that hit the target. the higher the RPMs the more it is affected by the frame rate.

So weapons like Typhoon and Hurricane would be amazingly affected by a low FPS, just try to kill a husk with a Typhoon on gold playing at 15 FPS and try the same at 60, it won't be the same.

Yeah, this is how I understand it as well, I think your mouse lag is bigger at a lower frame rate so what you see on the screen is not always what you are aiming at, which makes you miss much more bullets if target is moving, kinda like crusader. Should not make a difference for bosses.

[Caratinoid]

I see these posts comparing one video to the other, well let me tell you that it's pointless. It's difficult to compare difficulty between videos because you don't always have enough information to do that, there is an algorithm which will determine how good certain aspects of enemy accuracy are. It's a function of a lot of things like distance, last seen time, time (accuracy will improve over time), random factor, state of the enemy... etc. Depending on the state of those factors it may be possible to run past an enemy even at 120FPS without getting hit and die at 20 FPS. Frame rate difference will add something extra on top of that algorithm but unless you know how both algorithms work and have accounted for all the factors it's a function of to make sure you are comparing same thing, you 'result' will not mean a lot.

Modifié par Caratinoid, 21 mars 2013 - 07:33 .

[donasdogamma]

Ziegrif wrote...

donasdogamma wrote...

how can I see what my framerate is in while in game? Is there a program for that?

Download the free version of FRAPS and that one has an FPS counter.

Thanks, I'm defintetly going to try it

[BlackDahlia424]

Feneckus wrote...

For that ROF thing, can an xboxer try a Destroyer, full weapon spec, Typhoon X, extended mag, HVB, Warp IV, Assault Rifle Amp III and Assault Rifle Amp V vs a Gold Praetorian ?

It doesn't have double/tripe hit bug as far as I know, on or off host should be irrelevant and it should be easy enough to get headshots.

It should look like this

I have no recording equipment, nor do I have a Typhoon X (mines at IV). But I can tell you straight up that there's no way I would even come close to achieving this kill speed against a Praetorian, even with all headshots and the same build aside from the weapon level.

And I've noticed this in just about every PC Typhoon video I've ever seen - much quicker killing than I've seen from anyone on XBox. Granted, I have no proof of anything, but I don't think I'm crazy here.

[capn233]

BlackDahlia424 wrote...

I have no recording equipment, nor do I have a Typhoon X (mines at IV). But I can tell you straight up that there's no way I would even come close to achieving this kill speed against a Praetorian, even with all headshots and the same build aside from the weapon level.

And I've noticed this in just about every PC Typhoon video I've ever seen - much quicker killing than I've seen from anyone on XBox. Granted, I have no proof of anything, but I don't think I'm crazy here.

Tinfoil hat time.

I would wager 100cr that if you landed all headshots (or at least as many as Feneckus did) the kill speed would be pretty close.

Of course, same mods, same character, same gun, same ammo, etc.

[jakenou]

donasdogamma wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

donasdogamma wrote...

how can I see what my framerate is in while in game? Is there a program for that?

Download the free version of FRAPS and that one has an FPS counter.

Thanks, I'm defintetly going to try it

I would recommend MSI Afterburner. It's free and you can record full video. The drawback is that showing FPS on the HUD is harder to read than with Fraps, but running Fraps can give a noticeable performance hit on a lot of machines, while with MSI it's negligible.

BTW - for those interested, you can also cap framerate with MSI (as well as Fraps I'm pretty sure) without having to edit any game files.

Modifié par jkthunder, 21 mars 2013 - 07:38 .

[RedJohn]

Caratinoid wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Guys I think you are taking things in a different context.

Framerate seems to affect the amount of bullets that reach the target but not the damage itself.

It doesn't affect RoF or damage but it does affect the amount of bullets that hit the target. the higher the RPMs the more it is affected by the frame rate.

So weapons like Typhoon and Hurricane would be amazingly affected by a low FPS, just try to kill a husk with a Typhoon on gold playing at 15 FPS and try the same at 60, it won't be the same.

Yeah, this is how I understand it as well, I think your mouse lag is bigger at a lower frame rate so what you see on the screen is not always what you are aiming at, which makes you miss much more bullets if target is moving, kinda like crusader. Should not make a difference for bosses.

Well, You shoul try to cap your FPS @  15 and use your Tyhpoon against a Prime and see if it takes the same amount of bullets to deal the same ( or very similar ) amount of damage than when you are @ 60 FPS.

[capn233]

RedJohn wrote...

Well, You shoul try to cap your FPS @  15 and use your Tyhpoon against a Prime and see if it takes the same amount of bullets to deal the same ( or very similar ) amount of damage than when you are @ 60 FPS.

This sounds like an interesting test, and I might try it later when free.

However, if there is a small time difference it will only be related to variances in ROF, not because the actual damage is varying.

[megawug]

RedJohn wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Guys I think you are taking things in a different context.

Framerate seems to affect the amount of bullets that reach the target but not the damage itself.

It doesn't affect RoF or damage but it does affect the amount of bullets that hit the target. the higher the RPMs the more it is affected by the frame rate.

So weapons like Typhoon and Hurricane would be amazingly affected by a low FPS, just try to kill a husk with a Typhoon on gold playing at 15 FPS and try the same at 60, it won't be the same.

Yeah, this is how I understand it as well, I think your mouse lag is bigger at a lower frame rate so what you see on the screen is not always what you are aiming at, which makes you miss much more bullets if target is moving, kinda like crusader. Should not make a difference for bosses.

Well, You shoul try to cap your FPS @  15 and use your Tyhpoon against a Prime and see if it takes the same amount of bullets to deal the same ( or very similar ) amount of damage than when you are @ 60 FPS.

This makes me wonder how low the FPS on the Xbox bottoms out at.  22 FPS?  Or even lower?

[RedJohn]

capn233 wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Well, You shoul try to cap your FPS @  15 and use your Tyhpoon against a Prime and see if it takes the same amount of bullets to deal the same ( or very similar ) amount of damage than when you are @ 60 FPS.

This sounds like an interesting test, and I might try it later when free.

However, if there is a small time difference it will only be related to variances in ROF, not because the actual damage is varying.

As i said, the damage per bullet won't change, neither the RoF, what will change is the amount of bullets reaching the target, that's why you will feel the weapon weaker.

[capn233]

RedJohn wrote...

As i said, the damage per bullet won't change, neither the RoF, what will change is the amount of bullets reaching the target, that's why you will feel the weapon weaker.

I will mess with it.

I thought Typhoon was not on the list of weapons that actually do drop shots.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Caratinoid wrote...

I see these posts comparing one video to the other, well let me tell you that it's pointless. It's difficult to compare difficulty between videos because you don't always have enough information to do that, there is an algorithm which will determine how good certain aspects of enemy accuracy are. It's a function of a lot of things like distance, last seen time, time (accuracy will improve over time), random factor, state of the enemy... etc. Depending on the state of those factors it may be possible to run past an enemy even at 120FPS without getting hit and die at 20 FPS. Frame rate difference will add something extra on top of that algorithm but unless you know how both algorithms work and have accounted for all the factors it's a function of to make sure you are comparing same thing, you 'result' will not mean a lot.

It may be possible to control the number of variables (to an extent). I think this has been suggested before. Solo the game. Leave just one enemy unit alive (an assault trooper perhaps?). Then, to start things, move perpendicular to its line of fire (I'm pretty sure the unit will rush you). Record the results for different FPS settings over multiple runs (to even out the randomness, to an extent). Different such tests could be thought of. If anyone is interested these results could be compared with similar runs on XBOX/PS3.

If there is any kind of consistency to these results, I'm sure they will show up in these runs.

[upinya slayin]

jkthunder wrote...

High Lord Bacon the Fourth wrote...

Xbox playtime 600+ hours
PC playtime 350 hours

1. Enemy AI acts the same when playing at similar frame-rates on eggsbawks and Pee-Cee (I've tested this)
2. Xbox IDEALLY plays at 30 FPS, but likely slows down to 20+ when too many things are happening
3. While sprinting perpindicular to fire on xbox or when weaving back-and-forth the AI misses just as much when playing at 30 and >30 on PC
4. PC can take advantage of bad enemy AI more (when capped at low FPS) which makes it look "easier" than xbox framerate
5. There is NO discernable difference between DPS on xbox and PC
6. bad controls are the bane of xbox
7. tougher enemies are the bane of PC
8. Difficulty can't be accurately compared between platforms. It's like comparing F1 to NASCAR, Michael Schumacher and Dale Earnhardt were both top-tier in their "platform" but it cannot be argued that one is a "better" racecar driver.
9. Go home you're all drunk

I haven't tested by capping framerate on PC, but I generally agree with all of this. I've put in ~ 400 hours on each (have a little bit of catching up to do on PC atm). 6 and 7 are what really balances the game across platforms IMO. Console AI may be dumbed down from framerate, but we can't respond nearly as well as on PC. Xbox feels like I'm trudging through mud trying to move around and making powers/weapons work when I compare it to PC. Even with a brand new vanilla MS controller, the Dpad still won't let me choose what consumables I want to use. It has a mind of it's own. I've tried multiple controllers, including the Onza, to try and get better responsiveness but it's poor no matter what you do.

Edit - And we can run and turn on Xbox, just barely. Forget about tight turns, but a wide arc is doable.

hits left on the d-pad for a thermal clip, pulls out missile instead

[upinya slayin]

Feneckus wrote...

For that ROF thing, can an xboxer try a Destroyer, full weapon spec, Typhoon X, extended mag, HVB, Warp IV, Assault Rifle Amp III and Assault Rifle Amp V vs a Gold Praetorian ?

It doesn't have double/tripe hit bug as far as I know, on or off host should be irrelevant and it should be easy enough to get headshots.

It should look like this

send me your destroyer spec and i'll do it tomorrow night

edit, just watched the vid. your gonna be suprised on how much longer it'll take me to kill that.

Modifié par upinya slayin, 21 mars 2013 - 08:03 .

[RedJohn]

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

For that ROF thing, can an xboxer try a Destroyer, full weapon spec, Typhoon X, extended mag, HVB, Warp IV, Assault Rifle Amp III and Assault Rifle Amp V vs a Gold Praetorian ?

It doesn't have double/tripe hit bug as far as I know, on or off host should be irrelevant and it should be easy enough to get headshots.

It should look like this

send me your destroyer spec and i'll do it tomorrow night

edit, just watched the vid. your gonna be suprised on how much longer it'll take me to kill that.

http://narida.pytalh...saultRifleAmp5/

[upinya slayin]

megawug wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Caratinoid wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Guys I think you are taking things in a different context.

Framerate seems to affect the amount of bullets that reach the target but not the damage itself.

It doesn't affect RoF or damage but it does affect the amount of bullets that hit the target. the higher the RPMs the more it is affected by the frame rate.

So weapons like Typhoon and Hurricane would be amazingly affected by a low FPS, just try to kill a husk with a Typhoon on gold playing at 15 FPS and try the same at 60, it won't be the same.

Yeah, this is how I understand it as well, I think your mouse lag is bigger at a lower frame rate so what you see on the screen is not always what you are aiming at, which makes you miss much more bullets if target is moving, kinda like crusader. Should not make a difference for bosses.

Well, You shoul try to cap your FPS @  15 and use your Tyhpoon against a Prime and see if it takes the same amount of bullets to deal the same ( or very similar ) amount of damage than when you are @ 60 FPS.

This makes me wonder how low the FPS on the Xbox bottoms out at.  22 FPS?  Or even lower?

u can drop it to below 10 with 2 destroyers, and 2 demolisher all grenade spamming a small area. its funny for the lolz

[upinya slayin]

RedJohn wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

For that ROF thing, can an xboxer try a Destroyer, full weapon spec, Typhoon X, extended mag, HVB, Warp IV, Assault Rifle Amp III and Assault Rifle Amp V vs a Gold Praetorian ?

It doesn't have double/tripe hit bug as far as I know, on or off host should be irrelevant and it should be easy enough to get headshots.

It should look like this

send me your destroyer spec and i'll do it tomorrow night

edit, just watched the vid. your gonna be suprised on how much longer it'll take me to kill that.

http://narida.pytalh...saultRifleAmp5/

I'll post the video tomorrow night gonna be late though probably not until about midnight PST
I bookmarked this for reference

[jakenou]

upinya slayin wrote...
hits left on the d-pad for a thermal clip, pulls out missile instead

Both Ops packs and TC packs usually bust out my Cobra instead, but sometimes trying to take an Ops pack when I know I'm about to die will end up just letting me go down and decide that I really wanted to use a medigel, since I'm dead after all. Mind. Of. It's. Own.

[upinya slayin]

jkthunder wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
hits left on the d-pad for a thermal clip, pulls out missile instead

Both Ops packs and TC packs usually bust out my Cobra instead, but sometimes trying to take an Ops pack when I know I'm about to die will end up just letting me go down and decide that I really wanted to use a medigel, since I'm dead after all. Mind. Of. It's. Own.

yup got me synch killed the other day. boo at that.

[jakenou]

upinya slayin wrote...

jkthunder wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
hits left on the d-pad for a thermal clip, pulls out missile instead

Both Ops packs and TC packs usually bust out my Cobra instead, but sometimes trying to take an Ops pack when I know I'm about to die will end up just letting me go down and decide that I really wanted to use a medigel, since I'm dead after all. Mind. Of. It's. Own.

yup got me synch killed the other day. boo at that.

Even better when you try to eat a thermal clip pack, get the cobra instead (or both?), then try to quickly put away the Cobra to use your fresh, juicy, damage-boosted ammo only to find the "put away Cobra" animation didn't quite finish, so you end up sending a missile out. <_<