374 réponses à ce sujet

[tetsutsuru]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

So wait, just a point of clarification (for me).  I have my config at default (min=22, max=62).  When I host, is the game more difficult than intended?  More difficult than the consoles?

[BridgeBurner]

Youtube turns every video into 29.97 FPS, or 24 FPS. If the uploaded video exceeds 29.97 FPS, youtube removes certain frames during its server side compression, if the video is under 24 FPS, youtube generates "extra" frames resulting in horrible loss of quality.

So an uploaded video onto youtube will not necessarily look as smooth as it is intended, as youtube's compression is compressing a file which was probably already compressed in some format.

I doubt Sirian uploaded a 60 FPS rendered video (huge file size) so the actual YT video is most likely 29.97, rendered at 30 FPS by his compression software, and recorded with the game playing at 60.

Modifié par Annomander, 20 mars 2013 - 09:35 .

[Ziegrif]

Annomander wrote...

Youtube turns every video into 29.97 FPS, or 24 FPS.

So an uploaded video onto youtube will not necessarily look as smooth as it is intended, as youtube's compression is compressing a file which was probably already compressed in some format.

Yo dawg.



We heard you liked compression so we made the video compress while you compress!
So you can compress WHILE YOU COMPRESS!

[BridgeBurner]

Ziegrif wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Youtube turns every video into 29.97 FPS, or 24 FPS.

So an uploaded video onto youtube will not necessarily look as smooth as it is intended, as youtube's compression is compressing a file which was probably already compressed in some format.

Yo dawg.



We heard you liked compression so we made the video compress while you compress!
So you can compress WHILE YOU COMPRESS!

Lmao, Ziegrif...

[ISHYGDDT]

tetsutsuru wrote...
So wait, just a point of clarification (for me).  I have my config at default (min=22, max=62).  When I host, is the game more difficult than intended?  More difficult than the consoles?

Couldn't say really, I don't think the game is intended to be more or less difficult with framerate, it just happens to be the case because of the way AI interpolates your position and velocity when trying to shoot at you.  The shield-gate bug also is almost certainly not intentional.  I think basically, Bioware wasn't aware of the issue at all and so we ended up with what we did.

IMO, keep the config file at the default value, the variation in lag to host swamps the variation in ai by framerate by a lot.

[upinya slayin]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

[Litefire]

for the people wondering there was a nice thread with math and graphs and LOTS of discussion on the topic located here
http://social.biowar...ndex/15711621/1

and yes the game is more difficult then intended at 60fps when you host but it's not really worth the headache it causes to run it at 30fps, nor is it worth having the game out of fullscreen windowed mode imho.

Modifié par Litefire, 20 mars 2013 - 09:48 .

[Jhanus]

I can't really understand the freakouts people have about capping FPS, assuming you're not capping it below 30 for AI ease. My FPS went anywhere from ~50 down to ~31 on Condor when stuff was going crazy. I had to cap it for consistency and so I could stream.

Modifié par Jhanus, 20 mars 2013 - 09:50 .

[upinya slayin]

Zjarcal wrote...

Sirian just asked me to post this:

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I would like it known that I have no agenda with this video. It is simply a comparison of different framerates. A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. The FPS issue is the SAME for both PC and console, this means that the 30 FPS demonstration here demos what console AI is like. 2. This does NOT mean that the game is easier on console, as console players have to deal with worse controls, cannot easily run perpendicular to the enemy, etc. 3. There is no selective editing here. In the 60 FPS video I was doing what I usually do in order to not die (aside from actually using hard/soft cover and killing enemies of course). The difference between 60 FPS and 30 FPS is very real and very noticeable. Note that at 30 and 15 FPS, tyhw and I still died several times, but basically only when we stopped sprinting and/or dodging and either walked in a straight line or held still.

Again, I have no agenda here, I am not trying to defame anyone or diminish anyone's achievements. Nor am I attempting to say that PC is more difficult than console.

did he get banned form BSN? i ahven't seen him on the arelex forum or here either. i figured he just moved on

[ISHYGDDT]

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

I doubt it, but given we've never ever gotten a developer comment on this issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure the main factor which makes PC 30 FPS easier than Console 30 FPS is the fact that on PC, you can turn on a dime while running. 

[altrocksnp]

mind = blown

[TheKillerAngel]

upinya slayin wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Sirian just asked me to post this:

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I would like it known that I have no agenda with this video. It is simply a comparison of different framerates. A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. The FPS issue is the SAME for both PC and console, this means that the 30 FPS demonstration here demos what console AI is like. 2. This does NOT mean that the game is easier on console, as console players have to deal with worse controls, cannot easily run perpendicular to the enemy, etc. 3. There is no selective editing here. In the 60 FPS video I was doing what I usually do in order to not die (aside from actually using hard/soft cover and killing enemies of course). The difference between 60 FPS and 30 FPS is very real and very noticeable. Note that at 30 and 15 FPS, tyhw and I still died several times, but basically only when we stopped sprinting and/or dodging and either walked in a straight line or held still.

Again, I have no agenda here, I am not trying to defame anyone or diminish anyone's achievements. Nor am I attempting to say that PC is more difficult than console.

did he get banned form BSN? i ahven't seen him on the arelex forum or here either. i figured he just moved on

He left the BSN and requested the deletion of his account.

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

60 FPS on PC is a must.

The 30 FPS on consoles is somewhat "balanced" by the fact the controls are poop.

[Litefire]

BACON4BREAKFAST wrote...

60 FPS on PC is a must.

The 30 FPS on consoles is somewhat "balanced" by the fact the controls are poop.

and that is kind of sad considering it was designed for console and then ported/cooked for pc.

[Dark_Enclave33]

Yea the fps on ps3 is horrible...very frustrating at times...

[Jhanus]

BACON4BREAKFAST wrote...

60 FPS on PC is a must.

I'll run it at this FPS when someone buys me a new computer. Until then, I'll run it at my cap.

[upinya slayin]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

I doubt it, but given we've never ever gotten a developer comment on this issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure the main factor which makes PC 30 FPS easier than Console 30 FPS is the fact that on PC, you can turn on a dime while running. 

eveyrone agrees that the PC has much smoother controls. no auto aim, can run and turn and swing the camera etc etc. but its irrlevant to enemies ability to land a shot. I've seen vids where veen on platinum enenmies miss alot where on xbox you'd get modes down. evenwhen rolling they hit you i had one rolling where ig to killed and pushed into the elevator shaft on goddes causing me to rspawn instantly at the LZ. I just don['t see taht on PC vids but just my observsations...which last time i was flamed for them turned out i was irght :innocent:

[upinya slayin]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Sirian just asked me to post this:

Lord_Sirian wrote...

I would like it known that I have no agenda with this video. It is simply a comparison of different framerates. A couple of things to keep in mind: 1. The FPS issue is the SAME for both PC and console, this means that the 30 FPS demonstration here demos what console AI is like. 2. This does NOT mean that the game is easier on console, as console players have to deal with worse controls, cannot easily run perpendicular to the enemy, etc. 3. There is no selective editing here. In the 60 FPS video I was doing what I usually do in order to not die (aside from actually using hard/soft cover and killing enemies of course). The difference between 60 FPS and 30 FPS is very real and very noticeable. Note that at 30 and 15 FPS, tyhw and I still died several times, but basically only when we stopped sprinting and/or dodging and either walked in a straight line or held still.

Again, I have no agenda here, I am not trying to defame anyone or diminish anyone's achievements. Nor am I attempting to say that PC is more difficult than console.

did he get banned form BSN? i ahven't seen him on the arelex forum or here either. i figured he just moved on

He left the BSN and requested the deletion of his account.

why doens't he post on the arelex forums anymore? a place wher epeople don't get banned and flamed for eveyrhting? just curious. i know i got into it a few times with him but overall i thought he was a cool guy

[shadowkinz]

*complimentary pc master race reply*

But really.. u know it! AND the mobs are derpier on console. Yes it is harder tobaim with joystick but still PC master raceeee

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

Jhanus wrote...

BACON4BREAKFAST wrote...

60 FPS on PC is a must.

I'll run it at this FPS when someone buys me a new computer. Until then, I'll run it at my cap.

Yeah, I know everyone doesn't have a gaming PC. It really is ridiculous that the FPS affects the enemy AI. I can't think of any other game where this phenomenon occurs.

The people who have the capability to run at high FPS but choose not to because they get EZ-mode are more who I'm talking to.

[StoxRegalia]

I wish I could move like that. Whoever intentionally plays at 15 FPS should have there head checked.

[ISHYGDDT]

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

I doubt it, but given we've never ever gotten a developer comment on this issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure the main factor which makes PC 30 FPS easier than Console 30 FPS is the fact that on PC, you can turn on a dime while running. 

eveyrone agrees that the PC has much smoother controls. no auto aim, can run and turn and swing the camera etc etc. but its irrlevant to enemies ability to land a shot. I've seen vids where veen on platinum enenmies miss alot where on xbox you'd get modes down. evenwhen rolling they hit you i had one rolling where ig to killed and pushed into the elevator shaft on goddes causing me to rspawn instantly at the LZ. I just don['t see taht on PC vids but just my observsations...which last time i was flamed for them turned out i was irght :innocent:

Not irrelevant at all, in order to get the enemy AI to miss, you need to have a certain velocity across their line-of-site since turning while running is much more difficult on Xbox, your angle of approach will be shallower as you run towards a spawn (you can't really zig-zag while running as we can on PC)  leading to a lower velocity across the line-of-site of enemies meaning they will track you better.

Also I was quickscoped (and killed, lol) the other day by a nemesis while in the middle of a biotic charge.  I was playing at 30 FPS because I was recording.  If I can find it I'll put it up on youtube.

[upinya slayin]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

I doubt it, but given we've never ever gotten a developer comment on this issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure the main factor which makes PC 30 FPS easier than Console 30 FPS is the fact that on PC, you can turn on a dime while running. 

eveyrone agrees that the PC has much smoother controls. no auto aim, can run and turn and swing the camera etc etc. but its irrlevant to enemies ability to land a shot. I've seen vids where veen on platinum enenmies miss alot where on xbox you'd get modes down. evenwhen rolling they hit you i had one rolling where ig to killed and pushed into the elevator shaft on goddes causing me to rspawn instantly at the LZ. I just don['t see taht on PC vids but just my observsations...which last time i was flamed for them turned out i was irght :innocent:

Not irrelevant at all, in order to get the enemy AI to miss, you need to have a certain velocity across their line-of-site since turning while running is much more difficult on Xbox, your angle of approach will be shallower as you run towards a spawn (you can't really zig-zag while running as we can on PC)  leading to a lower velocity across the line-of-site of enemies meaning they will track you better.

Also I was quickscoped (and killed, lol) the other day by a nemesis while in the middle of a biotic charge.  I was playing at 30 FPS because I was recording.  If I can find it I'll put it up on youtube.

lol thats funny but had to be a lag kill cause your invincible duing a BC, anyway with that said iv'e seen PM even in that vid at 30 FPS run striaght away w/o runing perpindiclar to the enemy and nto get shot. if i run striaght awya i get mowed down

[Feneckus]

upinya slayin wrote...

i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones 

The whole game is a pretty mediocre xbox port, but they made sure to change the difficulty. 

That makes sense.

Not.

[Dorick]

He should remake the video by himself, since his teammate draws aggro several times.