374 réponses à ce sujet

[Dorick]

Video was edited at 10:46

[ISHYGDDT]

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

I'm just gonna come out and say this. i bit my tongue for a while after eveyrone called eveyrone out and some BSN celeb stud players got caught cheating and such but...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice) framrate capping to make it easier and when they do even out the doficulty they get mre weapon damage anyway. and i was flamed hard for my observations and it turns out i called it exactly right

now i'm not saying there all cheaters. or its easier or anything like that, i'm just saying its hard to trust who really did what. there is too many easy ways on PC to make the game easier then intended.

Except BSN did notice...

Also, the aimbot was only an accusation, as far as I know, Jay's VAC ban on another game for another reason notwithstanding.  Not saying that he didn't cheat, but there's no smoking gun.

Finally, 30 FPS is playing the game 'as intended' by BioWare,  You can tell that the game was not actually intended to be played at other framerates because something as (hopefully) universal as the shield recharge speed depends nontrivially on framerate.

enemys are too dumb on 30FPS though. it looks like bronze enemies on cosole. i think the PC was intended to run at 60 thats where enemies looks similar to console ones

I doubt it, but given we've never ever gotten a developer comment on this issue, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I'm pretty sure the main factor which makes PC 30 FPS easier than Console 30 FPS is the fact that on PC, you can turn on a dime while running. 

eveyrone agrees that the PC has much smoother controls. no auto aim, can run and turn and swing the camera etc etc. but its irrlevant to enemies ability to land a shot. I've seen vids where veen on platinum enenmies miss alot where on xbox you'd get modes down. evenwhen rolling they hit you i had one rolling where ig to killed and pushed into the elevator shaft on goddes causing me to rspawn instantly at the LZ. I just don['t see taht on PC vids but just my observsations...which last time i was flamed for them turned out i was irght :innocent:

Not irrelevant at all, in order to get the enemy AI to miss, you need to have a certain velocity across their line-of-site since turning while running is much more difficult on Xbox, your angle of approach will be shallower as you run towards a spawn (you can't really zig-zag while running as we can on PC)  leading to a lower velocity across the line-of-site of enemies meaning they will track you better.

Also I was quickscoped (and killed, lol) the other day by a nemesis while in the middle of a biotic charge.  I was playing at 30 FPS because I was recording.  If I can find it I'll put it up on youtube.

lol thats funny but had to be a lag kill cause your invincible duing a BC, anyway with that said iv'e seen PM even in that vid at 30 FPS run striaght away w/o runing perpindiclar to the enemy and nto get shot. if i run striaght awya i get mowed down

on-host. I was kind of surprised myself.  But Cerberus seems to have become really buggy since the last patch.

[Jhanus]

Dorick wrote...

Video was edited at 10:46

Looked less like an edit and more of a 'missing footage' moment. Seen rather a few vids like that lately.

[capn233]

Why make this now?

upinya slayin wrote...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to.

Maybe you should cite specific examples. Especially if you are going to call out basically everyone on PC at the same time. As for the PC at 30fps is Bronze on console, well I have never played on console so I wouldn't make an authoritative comment on that. Then again if you aren't also playing on PC I don't know if you could make an authoritative comment on the matter either.

Modifié par capn233, 20 mars 2013 - 10:34 .

[Dorick]

Jhanus wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Video was edited at 10:46

Looked less like an edit and more of a 'missing footage' moment. Seen rather a few vids like that lately.

Its possible. I upload vids to youtube daily and never have this problem, however. 

[Dorick]

I would like the FPS to be tested more vigorously. I feel like what was done in the video had too many variables, especially having a friend with him.

The kit should have a precise route or dodge routine, and there should be only one enemy, and then test to see how many times the enemy lands its shots.

Has someone already run tests like this.

Also, it didnt seem like there was a ->major difference between the framerates, they were still going down. It seemed like survivability was being exaggerated a bit.

[Jhanus]

Dorick wrote...

Its possible. I upload vids to youtube daily and never have this problem, however. 

It's not a YouTube problem, it's a recording problem. If your recording software hiccups but the game does not, you'll miss out on footage. Besides, it's pretty obvious whatever would've been missed would've been running around for all of maybe 3 seconds, and a grenade going off.

[K_O_513]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

stromguard555 wrote...

Just my observations, but the AI on PC Gold 30 FPS looks worse than Console Bronze AI. 60 FPS looked closer to what console Gold is like.

It's a lot harder to avoid fire when running on console because you don't really have the ability to turn while running.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 30FPS AI on PC is the same 30FPS AI on Console, but it's much harder ensure that you can run perpendicular to the line of enemy fire on Console.

Maybe that's the case. Because when I run in front of a bunch of enemies like that I get railed instantly.

[Fortack]

I know it's unlikely for poor console peasants to have a decent PC (and not use it , but if there is one, it's quite easy to plug in a controller, lock frame-rate @ 30 FPS and see if anything is different.

[capn233]

Dorick wrote...

I would like the FPS to be tested more vigorously. I feel like what was done in the video had too many variables, especially having a friend with him.

The kit should have a precise route or dodge routine, and there should be only one enemy, and then test to see how many times the enemy lands its shots.

Has someone already run tests like this.

Also, it didnt seem like there was a ->major difference between the framerates, they were still going down. It seemed like survivability was being exaggerated a bit.

I don't know if this has been tested to ultra rigorous scientific journal standards.  However, this first was discussed fairly in detail 6 months ago.  Then Caratanoid made a detailed topic on it one month ago to start the second round.  In that thread he talks about various other issues that depend on framerate, and possible solutions.

[Alijah Green]

Dorick wrote...

He should remake the video by himself, since his teammate draws aggro several times.

exactly no science involved more like a troll event thread...... reapers on the same map with no Ops pack use too avoid going down on 30 fps:whistle:

[Drkr_Zen]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

stromguard555 wrote...

Just my observations, but the AI on PC Gold 30 FPS looks worse than Console Bronze AI. 60 FPS looked closer to what console Gold is like.

It's a lot harder to avoid fire when running on console because you don't really have the ability to turn while running.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 30FPS AI on PC is the same 30FPS AI on Console, but it's much harder ensure that you can run perpendicular to the line of enemy fire on Console.

I think you inadvertantly proved the guy's case with that first line. If you take into account PC controls alongside "reenacting" console FPS, you don't reenact the experience... you sort of dramatize it with commentary full of snide comments, in this case.

Turning around 180 degrees, or almost 360, being able to run in a u-turn (I run well enough with turns, bobs and weaves on PS3, though), and you have a much easier experience on PC making harder difficulties as easy as console's easier ones. 

[Geek]

Fortack wrote...

I know it's unlikely for poor console peasants to have a decent PC (and not use it

I know your joking here but we had this conversation with Sirian and he was a little surprised that pretty much all of us played on console because we preferred it.

[upinya slayin]

capn233 wrote...

Why make this now?

upinya slayin wrote...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to.

Maybe you should cite specific examples. Especially if you are going to call out basically everyone on PC at the same time. As for the PC at 30fps is Bronze on console, well I have never played on console so I wouldn't make an authoritative comment on that. Then again if you aren't also playing on PC I don't know if you could make an authoritative comment on the matter either.

just form watching the videos. several BSNers flamed me for my acucusions on the videos which all turned out to be rate. some were framrate dendant, some were aimbotting, some were modding files, etc. they all called each other out cause they all knew eahc other were cheating in the platinum HOF thread. i dind't need to call them uot. i said what i thought got flamed and dropped it. then months later they all turned on each other and called each other out. alot of things went on behind the scenes back when the pc vs xbox speed run challenge 1st happend incldun OC telling us we coudln't use certain glicthed that we weren't even aware of and they were using in regular games but weren't gonna use in the challenge. xbox wans't aware of them but was amde aware at that point but kept eveyrhting hush hush so it didn't call attenionn for people to find new ways to cheat.

alot of drama and such has wen't on during the course of ME3 here on BSN i'm not gonna cite eveyrhting. most long term BSNers already know all of this

[jakenou]

Drama on BSN? Slayin, u exaggeratin'!

[ISHYGDDT]

Drkr_Zen wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

stromguard555 wrote...

Just my observations, but the AI on PC Gold 30 FPS looks worse than Console Bronze AI. 60 FPS looked closer to what console Gold is like.

It's a lot harder to avoid fire when running on console because you don't really have the ability to turn while running.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 30FPS AI on PC is the same 30FPS AI on Console, but it's much harder ensure that you can run perpendicular to the line of enemy fire on Console.

I think you inadvertantly proved the guy's case with that first line. If you take into account PC controls alongside "reenacting" console FPS, you don't reenact the experience... you sort of dramatize it with commentary full of snide comments, in this case.

Turning around 180 degrees, or almost 360, being able to run in a u-turn (I run well enough with turns, bobs and weaves on PS3, though), and you have a much easier experience on PC making harder difficulties as easy as console's easier ones. 

His contention is that the AI is dumber for a given FPS on PC than console.  Mine is that it's not.  

I never said PC @ 30 FPS wasn't easier to play, although I don't know for a fact that it is.  I simply made the hypothesis that the AI *seems* dumber because of the nature of PC controls.

[upinya slayin]

jkthunder wrote...

Drama on BSN? Slayin, u exaggeratin'!

BSN = The facebook of Mass Effect :innocent:

[upinya slayin]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Drkr_Zen wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

stromguard555 wrote...

Just my observations, but the AI on PC Gold 30 FPS looks worse than Console Bronze AI. 60 FPS looked closer to what console Gold is like.

It's a lot harder to avoid fire when running on console because you don't really have the ability to turn while running.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 30FPS AI on PC is the same 30FPS AI on Console, but it's much harder ensure that you can run perpendicular to the line of enemy fire on Console.

I think you inadvertantly proved the guy's case with that first line. If you take into account PC controls alongside "reenacting" console FPS, you don't reenact the experience... you sort of dramatize it with commentary full of snide comments, in this case.

Turning around 180 degrees, or almost 360, being able to run in a u-turn (I run well enough with turns, bobs and weaves on PS3, though), and you have a much easier experience on PC making harder difficulties as easy as console's easier ones. 

His contention is that the AI is dumber for a given FPS on PC than console.  Mine is that it's not.  

I never said PC @ 30 FPS wasn't easier to play, although I don't know for a fact that it is.  I simply made the hypothesis that the AI *seems* dumber because of the nature of PC controls.

i understand your argument, i'm just syaing if you run in a straight line on PC 30FPS and on console with the same amount of enemies aorund you, you'll get mowed down faster on console. thats a controlled experiment. again its not a fact i don't have proof and odn't want to turn into a flame war. i'm just making an observation on the video

[LuckyBullet95]

60 FPS (average PC Player FPS I'm guessing is definately noticeably harder. 30 FPS (Console FPS) is balanced out by a lack of sensitivity, button mapping and camera control (just saying). 15 FPS is just hilarious...

[capn233]

upinya slayin wrote...

alot of drama and such has wen't on during the course of ME3 here on BSN i'm not gonna cite eveyrhting. most long term BSNers already know all of this

These are still vague comments that make it sound like everyone on PC cheats.

There is basically one person from Platinum HOF that actually got busted red handed, and one that was accused with what is circumstantial evidence at best.

[megawug]

ISHYGDDT wrote...

Drkr_Zen wrote...

ISHYGDDT wrote...

stromguard555 wrote...

Just my observations, but the AI on PC Gold 30 FPS looks worse than Console Bronze AI. 60 FPS looked closer to what console Gold is like.

It's a lot harder to avoid fire when running on console because you don't really have the ability to turn while running.

If I had to guess, I'd say the 30FPS AI on PC is the same 30FPS AI on Console, but it's much harder ensure that you can run perpendicular to the line of enemy fire on Console.

I think you inadvertantly proved the guy's case with that first line. If you take into account PC controls alongside "reenacting" console FPS, you don't reenact the experience... you sort of dramatize it with commentary full of snide comments, in this case.

Turning around 180 degrees, or almost 360, being able to run in a u-turn (I run well enough with turns, bobs and weaves on PS3, though), and you have a much easier experience on PC making harder difficulties as easy as console's easier ones. 

His contention is that the AI is dumber for a given FPS on PC than console.  Mine is that it's not.  

I never said PC @ 30 FPS wasn't easier to play, although I don't know for a fact that it is.  I simply made the hypothesis that the AI *seems* dumber because of the nature of PC controls.

Controls aside, when I watched Xbox or PC videos, the enemies seemed to react slowly compared my own experiences.  At 60 FPS, I stand no chance of running through a crowd on gold/platinum without being downed.  Now I know why.  I assume most videos are made while playing at 30 FPS, since recording takes quite a bit of bandwidth.

[Lady Galaga]

Wow, in a weird way 30 looks better.... only because it's closer to film in my perception.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Look, it's become quite obvious that 30 fps on PC does not match 30 fps on console. I don't know what the reason for that is, but the video doesn't lie. The enemy behavior at 30 fps on PC has been demonstrated to be significantly less responsive, accurate, and aggressive than the enemy AI on console.

I've seen so many videos now from PC, which I'm assuming are at 30 fps, and the player is consistently able to run in a straight line right through packs of enemies without taking damage. This just is not possible on the console version on Gold and Platinum. PC 30 fps really does look to be about the same as console Gold. It's no coincidence that a number of console players have independently witnessed this.

When I first mentioned something being off in the PC videos, I wasn't even aware that upinya or anyone else had seen the same thing. It was an observation that I made simply by watching the video and seeing what was happening with my own eyes.

I personally don't care if the PC version is easier. I just think PC players shouldn't be on here all arrogant talking about the "PC master race" and acting like they're the most skilled players out of anyone. Not when their version of the game is easier.

[Kaall]

The game has been poorly designed in the aspect of fps affecting Enemy AI and reactivity and shield regeneration, and it was not intended that way since the game has been made for console with fixed fps.

That means playing at 30 fps is the way the game was intended to be played.
The enemy AI, reaction time, and shield regen is balanced for 30 fps.

That means that when you play at 60 you are imposing a greater difficulty on yourself, but also on each team mate that join your lobby, since it is host dependent.

From a personal point o view my decision is made, my game is set to be fixed at 30 fps, and i think i will host all of my games from now on, so that i won't have to suffer from useless increase of difficulty.

[capn233]

megawug wrote...

I assume most videos are made while playing at 30 FPS, since recording takes quite a bit of bandwidth.

It doesn't, unless everyone else has an older computer than mine, which records at 60fps most of the time, but may dip in between waves when it is loading the enemies.  That is of course only recording to 1280x720, obviously recording uncompressed at high resolution is more intensive.