374 réponses à ce sujet

[dumdum2]

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord Sirian shared this with me a while ago and I figured it'd be good to share it with BSN. It's well known how framerate affects difficulty in this game, and here we have a direct comparison between high, medium, and very low framerates.




60 FPS - 0:20
30 FPS - 4:05
15 FPS - 7:37

This video only shows enemies shooting at the players while running right? I would like to see the difference when the player shoots at the enemy at different FPS as well. Would be interesting to see if it would also be harder to kill the enemies at lower FPS with different weapons 

[XPERIA_Z]

TBH, if the video is only a 30FPS (NTSC) then...the comparison is completely pointless...

Afaik, youtube player can only play a single NTSC video, meaning it has a limit of 30 frames per seconds..

OP:
[spam image removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 22 mars 2013 - 12:49 .

[Tybo]

dumdum2 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Lord Sirian shared this with me a while ago and I figured it'd be good to share it with BSN. It's well known how framerate affects difficulty in this game, and here we have a direct comparison between high, medium, and very low framerates.




60 FPS - 0:20
30 FPS - 4:05
15 FPS - 7:37

This video only shows enemies shooting at the players while running right? I would like to see the difference when the player shoots at the enemy at different FPS as well. Would be interesting to see if it would also be harder to kill the enemies at lower FPS with different weapons 

Well, it is harder to aim at low FPS, because your cursor doesn't move as smoothly, but weapons do exactly the same if you hit the enemy.  Frame rate has no effect on damage done to enemies.

[Tybo]

XPERIA_Z wrote...

TBH, if the video is only a 30FPS (NTSC) then...the comparison is completely pointless...

Afaik, youtube player can only play a single NTSC video, meaning it has a limit of 30 frames per seconds..

OP:
[spam image removed]

The video is uploaded at 30 FPS, because that is what youtube uses.  However, this obviously has no effect on the video as it was recorded, which was at 60 FPS.  

Surprisingly,enemy accuracy is dependent on the frame rate the game is being played at, not the frame rate at which the youtube video was uploaded.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 22 mars 2013 - 12:50 .

[Dorick]

I dont get it, I watched the whole vid and I see him and his friend go down and use ops packs with each frame rate. The biggest difference was that if he didnt go down right away in the lower frame rates, he acted like it was a big deal.

If I had a friend running around in circles I swear to god i could follow him in a way that I would be more likely to take more aggro, and another way where I would take less aggro. His friend needs to be removed and the video needs to be retaken using a faction that doesnt use smoke nades.

Also, commented on his video and confirms that the video WAS edited at 10:46 on the grounds that he needed less content for faster upload times.

[Tybo]

Dorick wrote...

I dont get it, I watched the whole vid and I see him and his friend go down and use ops packs with each frame rate. The biggest difference was that if he didnt go down right away in the lower frame rates, he acted like it was a big deal.

If I had a friend running around in circles I swear to god i could follow him in a way that I would be more likely to take more aggro, and another way where I would take less aggro. His friend needs to be removed and the video needs to be retaken using a faction that doesnt use smoke nades.

Also, commented on his video and confirms that the video WAS edited at 10:46 on the grounds that he needed less content for faster upload times.

I posted this earlier, but I'll repeat myself.

We died because WE WERE TRYING TO GET KILLED.  At 30 FPS, it was quickly clear to me that the enemies were having trouble hitting me.  So I started seeing if I could WALK instead of run through the enemies.  And I could, with some regularity, though definitely not all of the time.  In fact, I spent some time trying to see how well I could stay behind a trooper, without it being able to shoot me because it was too derpy.

Modifié par tyhw, 21 mars 2013 - 09:53 .

[Dorick]

tyhw wrote...

Dorick wrote...

I dont get it, I watched the whole vid and I see him and his friend go down and use ops packs with each frame rate. The biggest difference was that if he didnt go down right away in the lower frame rates, he acted like it was a big deal.

If I had a friend running around in circles I swear to god i could follow him in a way that I would be more likely to take more aggro, and another way where I would take less aggro. His friend needs to be removed and the video needs to be retaken using a faction that doesnt use smoke nades.

Also, commented on his video and confirms that the video WAS edited at 10:46 on the grounds that he needed less content for faster upload times.

I posted this earlier, but I'll repeat myself.

We died because WE WERE TRYING TO GET KILLED.  At 30 FPS, it was quickly clear to me that the enemies were having trouble hitting me.  So I started seeing if I could WALK instead of run through the enemies.  And I could, with some regularity, though definitely not all of the time.  In fact, I spent some time trying to see how well I could stay behind a trooper, without it being able to shoot me because it was too derpy.

I'm not arguing for either side, I just feel there are too many variables in the video to make large assumptions about how much the fps changes the difficulty. 

Would like to see another vid where as many variables as possible are isololated, and nothing is assumed during the making of the video. Like an actual experiment. 

It seems like a lot of players are taking fps really seriously, like its game breaking. 

[Tybo]

Dorick wrote...

tyhw wrote...

Dorick wrote...

I dont get it, I watched the whole vid and I see him and his friend go down and use ops packs with each frame rate. The biggest difference was that if he didnt go down right away in the lower frame rates, he acted like it was a big deal.

If I had a friend running around in circles I swear to god i could follow him in a way that I would be more likely to take more aggro, and another way where I would take less aggro. His friend needs to be removed and the video needs to be retaken using a faction that doesnt use smoke nades.

Also, commented on his video and confirms that the video WAS edited at 10:46 on the grounds that he needed less content for faster upload times.

I posted this earlier, but I'll repeat myself.

We died because WE WERE TRYING TO GET KILLED.  At 30 FPS, it was quickly clear to me that the enemies were having trouble hitting me.  So I started seeing if I could WALK instead of run through the enemies.  And I could, with some regularity, though definitely not all of the time.  In fact, I spent some time trying to see how well I could stay behind a trooper, without it being able to shoot me because it was too derpy.

I'm not arguing for either side, I just feel there are too many variables in the video to make large assumptions about how much the fps changes the difficulty. 

Would like to see another vid where as many variables as possible are isololated, and nothing is assumed during the making of the video. Like an actual experiment. 

It seems like a lot of players are taking fps really seriously, like its game breaking. 

Video wasn't really trying to prove anything.

All that's in this video has been proven, a long time ago, in a thread by Caratinoid.  He's the one who first explained the issue, and why it was likely happening.  He even was able to tinker with the code to adjust it.

This was just for fun, and to provide an example of what kind of things you can get away with at different FPS.

[Zero132132]

Watching the way that enemies behave at 30 FPS makes me absolutely certain that consoles and PC run very differently at 30 FPS. There's no damned way that running through a crowd of enemies would work that way on console. Not even close.

[Tybo]

Zero132132 wrote...

Watching the way that enemies behave at 30 FPS makes me absolutely certain that consoles and PC run very differently at 30 FPS. There's no damned way that running through a crowd of enemies would work that way on console. Not even close.

I've never played on Xbox, so I can't definitively prove anything.  But:

a)  I know that VerySeed played on Xbox for quite a while, and claims that you are pretty much invulnerable while sprinting on Xbox.

It is very unlikely that BioWare bothered to change their code to scale differently with FPS between PC and console.  If they did, they likely would have implemented this change in to modify the enemy AI with FPS on PC to prevent the super derpy AI

c) Given that in Mass Effect 2 BioWare intentionally made enemies more difficult on PC  (due to our superior controls)  (link here), I find it highly unlikely that they would turn around and do the opposite in ME3

[jrm_ayun]

[quote]upinya slayin wrote...

only thing i'm accusing you of is being a dick, but i'm making the point that its human nature to get defensive when you have somehting to hide. its basic knowledge. and you get defensive alot. My point is there isn't any point in getting defensive if you aren't cheating and i didn't accuse YOU of cheating.. it has nothign to do with you. It was a civil discussion about FPS and difficuly between PC and console until you showed up and started being a dick.
[/quote]

1) Uh sure if you say so

2) well you did start it here

[quote]upinya slayin wrote...

a while ago i said after watching some of the vids (before any of the frame rate stuff or anyhting came out) that some of the vids i watched teh enemies were too dumb and it looked too easy and the weapons did more damage and enemies did less etc etc. i was flamed dam hard for it to. now w find out that some famous BSN celebs were suing aimbots, modded files to do more damage (which i said they could add 30-40% more and nobody would really notice)

[Stardusk]

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

just form watching the videos. several BSNers flamed me for my acucusions on the videos which all turned out to be rate. 

There's only been proof of ONE PC cheater. A single one.

So please STFU.

why don't you STFU?
link got caught modding and extra skill points
jay's been banned form L4D for aimbotting why would he not in ME3?
you guys admittied consumable stacking and a few others i won't mention during the tourament back in the day
you guys called each other uot for cheating in the PHOF thread
there was another one i can't remmebr his name who got banned for modding files and restarted his hanifest with a 1 at the end of his normal Origin ID

i'm not saying you are cheating but you saying only 1 is pure nonsense. grow the **** up and stop taking **** so personal and stop ebing a DB and open your eyes. the mroe pisse dyou get about accusaitons the guiltier you look.

not only do you look like cheaters you lok like cry babies when you make posts like this. i kept this calm and civil w/o flaming. if you can't do the same GTFO of the thread

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

[ABjerre]

Saradas85 wrote...

Litefire wrote...

Saradas85 wrote...

and how do i set a maximum frame rate?
on my pc even the most useless of mooks has laser accuracy from 600m

RedJohn wrote...

How do I cap the FPS ?

I want to see something on GF's laptop

browse to
C:UsersXXXXXDocumentsBioWareMass Effect 3BIOGameConfig

open file GamerSettings with notepad  add the following lines to the end of the document
UseVsync=False
SmoothFramerate=True
MinSmoothedFramerate=xx
MaxSmoothedFramerate=yy


replaces xx and yy with fps values you want ideally 22 and 30 (i have mine set to 22 and 62 just cause the harder is funner save for magnetic hands B and P. ) and play the game in full screen mode not fullscreen windowed mode.

thank you for the help

Congrats on the Lone Wolf Banner

[ABjerre]

Stardusk wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
YOU!

STFU.

no you STFU?

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

We may never know why he was banned, and i reeeeaaally dont care - it was the hilarious conversation between the people you quoted that caught my attention... but now that we're at it:

Speculating (and doing that is a dangerous game, i know) one can assume that he must have done something
to earn himself said ban, and since what he was best known for doing, is using his super-human aiming skillz to achive extraordinary results and makes videos to document it, which for the majoritys part are no longer avalible on youtube, i can see why one would arrive at the conclusion that he was probably banned for something related to doing exactly that. Perhaps using an aimbot. Who knows?

Edit: As it could be percieved as i am taking sides, or that i even have an oppinion on the matter, i bolded, and underlined (and put it in italic to stay classy) the important part of the post. It was merely a share of thought as to why someone, somewhere that was butt-hurt already could make the connection that he was cheating by using an aim-bot.

Modifié par ABjerre, 21 mars 2013 - 12:17 .

[Chealec]

tyhw wrote...


Xbox running past enemies

It's pretty obvious that there are no magical changes in the AI between console and PC, our controls are just better. 

Zero132132 wrote...

Watching the way that enemies behave at 30 FPS makes me absolutely certain that consoles and PC run very differently at 30 FPS. There's no damned way that running through a crowd of enemies would work that way on console. Not even close.

You couldn't run through a crowd of enemies like that on a console anyway ... watching that Drell video; they kinda look like they're running through magic, invisible soup.

I'm not sure I could even play the game like that - not being able to see where the hell I'm going when running round a corner would drive me bugs**t - those long, slow looping turns.

All else aside - even if the AI is more responsive at 60fps... I seriously doubt that would offset the ability to rapidly turn whilst running, while being able to see where you're going, plus the ability to actually aim/snapfire quickly. Kinda reminds me why I have about 50x as many PC games as PS3.

Modifié par Chealec, 21 mars 2013 - 01:08 .

[Stardusk]

ABjerre wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...
YOU!

STFU.

no you STFU?

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

We may never know why he was banned, and i reeeeaaally dont care - it was the hilarious conversation between the people you quoted that caught my attention... but now that we're at it:

Speculating (and doing that is a dangerous game, i know) one can assume that he must have done something
to earn himself said ban, and since what he was best known for doing, is using his super-human aiming skillz to achive extraordinary results and makes videos to document it, which for the majoritys part are no longer avalible on youtube, i can see why one would arrive at the conclusion that he was probably banned for something related to doing exactly that. Perhaps using an aimbot. Who knows?

Edit: As it could be percieved as i am taking sides, or that i even have an oppinion on the matter, i bolded, and underlined (and put it in italic to stay classy) the important part of the post. It was merely a share of thought as to why someone, somewhere that was butt-hurt already could make the connection that he was cheating by using an aim-bot.

Clearly a case of envy on the accusers' part.

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

i just tried 30 FPS

the result was

VERY MELON....LIGHT

the enemy reaction not so frustating and Geth Rocket Trooper's double.triple/quadruple rocket didn't occur even when I'm pugging

I tested that on silver

Modifié par 4ut0b4hn5child27, 21 mars 2013 - 01:11 .

[4ut0b4hn5child27]

Air Quotes wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

just form watching the videos. several BSNers flamed me for my acucusions on the videos which all turned out to be rate. 

There's only been proof of ONE PC cheater. A single one.

So please STFU.

why don't you STFU?
link got caught modding and extra skill points
jay's been banned form L4D for aimbotting why would he not in ME3?
you guys admittied consumable stacking and a few others i won't mention during the tourament back in the day
you guys called each other uot for cheating in the PHOF thread
there was another one i can't remmebr his name who got banned for modding files and restarted his hanifest with a 1 at the end of his normal Origin ID

i'm not saying you are cheating but you saying only 1 is pure nonsense. grow the **** up and stop taking **** so personal and stop ebing a DB and open your eyes. the mroe pisse dyou get about accusaitons the guiltier you look.

not only do you look like cheaters you lok like cry babies when you make posts like this. i kept this calm and civil w/o flaming. if you can't do the same GTFO of the thread

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

 

How do we know for sure that Jay was a pro CS player? 

more importantly....how did stardusk knew. about it...?

[Stardusk]

Air Quotes wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

just form watching the videos. several BSNers flamed me for my acucusions on the videos which all turned out to be rate. 

There's only been proof of ONE PC cheater. A single one.

So please STFU.

why don't you STFU?
link got caught modding and extra skill points
jay's been banned form L4D for aimbotting why would he not in ME3?
you guys admittied consumable stacking and a few others i won't mention during the tourament back in the day
you guys called each other uot for cheating in the PHOF thread
there was another one i can't remmebr his name who got banned for modding files and restarted his hanifest with a 1 at the end of his normal Origin ID

i'm not saying you are cheating but you saying only 1 is pure nonsense. grow the **** up and stop taking **** so personal and stop ebing a DB and open your eyes. the mroe pisse dyou get about accusaitons the guiltier you look.

not only do you look like cheaters you lok like cry babies when you make posts like this. i kept this calm and civil w/o flaming. if you can't do the same GTFO of the thread

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

 

How do we know for sure that Jay was a pro CS player? 

On his word, stories, often with extreme details, the current doings of his former teammates, what they are up to, why he quit to do something else etc. It would take a tremendous amount of effort (wasted I might add) to make all of that up. You are of course, of of the hackusers, they're are professional FPS players out there who can do the stuff Jay does, whether you can or not. All the accusations are just supposition with no firm evidence. Additionally I have hosted games where he attempted solos and he missed several times. He is not a hacker.

Modifié par Stardusk, 21 mars 2013 - 02:04 .

[Stardusk]

4ut0b4hn5child27 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

just form watching the videos. several BSNers flamed me for my acucusions on the videos which all turned out to be rate. 

There's only been proof of ONE PC cheater. A single one.

So please STFU.

why don't you STFU?
link got caught modding and extra skill points
jay's been banned form L4D for aimbotting why would he not in ME3?
you guys admittied consumable stacking and a few others i won't mention during the tourament back in the day
you guys called each other uot for cheating in the PHOF thread
there was another one i can't remmebr his name who got banned for modding files and restarted his hanifest with a 1 at the end of his normal Origin ID

i'm not saying you are cheating but you saying only 1 is pure nonsense. grow the **** up and stop taking **** so personal and stop ebing a DB and open your eyes. the mroe pisse dyou get about accusaitons the guiltier you look.

not only do you look like cheaters you lok like cry babies when you make posts like this. i kept this calm and civil w/o flaming. if you can't do the same GTFO of the thread

Jay was not banned for using an aimbot; no one knows why he was banned and it was pure supposition on one individual's part who insisted he was using an aimbot. Jay used to be a professional Counterstrike player, it makes sense that he has insane aim, just an Olympic sprinter can outsprint virtually anyone. So now the console folk come out and accuse every PC player of being a cheater, good one. I heard somewhere most console players were 12+....hmm.

 

How do we know for sure that Jay was a pro CS player? 

more importantly....how did stardusk knew. about it...?

To the extent anyone on the internet is a friend, I consider Jay a friend, hence from conversation.

[dumdum2]

Chealec wrote...

You couldn't run through a crowd of enemies like that on a console anyway ... watching that Drell video; they kinda look like they're running through magic, invisible soup.

Are you refering to our Drell Platinum Speedrun?! 

And I agree with Zero, from watching the video it doesn't look at all like when I'm playing the game on my Xbox even though the FPS is the same. The things that they got away with in this video at 30 FPS I would never get away with when I'm playing 

[Stardusk]

dumdum2 wrote...

Chealec wrote...

You couldn't run through a crowd of enemies like that on a console anyway ... watching that Drell video; they kinda look like they're running through magic, invisible soup.

Are you refering to our Drell Platinum Speedrun?! 

And I agree with Zero, from watching the video it doesn't look at all like when I'm playing the game on my Xbox even though the FPS is the same. The things that they got away with in this video at 30 FPS I would never get away with when I'm playing 

Generally speaking, when you are young, you still have time, and can get away with a lot more.

[Commander_Rafael]

Hey, just wanted to add the following to the subject:

I was playing with a friend currently with out his pc due to HD malfunction

He tried to run me3 on his notebook

FPS was around 20 or less, he supposed.

> I could dodge Atlas missiles.

edit: for those who don't know, Caratinoid confirmed FPS also affects projectile turning angle. (that's why prime cannon is also master of space-time bending)

Modifié par Commander_Rafael, 21 mars 2013 - 02:10 .

[Kaall]

Legendaryred wrote...

What the hell? so apparently a lot of people have been playing on easy mode (30 fps) while this whole time I been playing full 60 fps master race.

30 fps is not easy mode.
Thanks to difficulty scalling with fps, playing at 30 fps give you the exact enemy AI, response time and shield regen than Console players have because they too are playing at 30 fps.

Playing at 30 fps is playing at the difficulty the game was intended to be played.

It sucks for those who want's to have a better fluidity, but it's either that, or impose on your game a difficulty that has not been designed for it at all.

Higher difficulty with higher fps, is a bug, at some point in fps drell shield even stop to regen, so there is no shame at playing at 30 fps, because playing at 30 fps is not a cheat, it is simply refusing to suffer a major bug.