134 réponses à ce sujet

[ForTuchanka]

MaxCrushmore wrote...
I only play infiltrators at sub level 10 on gold personally. Besides the character level though, there are other indicators as to who falls into the other %2 ... as I stated in another post on this thread, if I join your lobby with a level 1 TGI, but am using a BW X, with grenade capacity V, sniper amp III, AP III, with 1900 N7 10,000 Challenge pts (both typically meaningless i agree, but indicators) ... can you unilaterally say that this kit will not contribute?

No, but I can unilaterally say with 100% certainty that YOU personally would do better in the game with a level 10 TGI or especially a level 20 TGI.   For me, it's an issue of respect for PUG players.  If you're not willing to show me that you're willing to put for a full effort by your choice of a purposely low character and/or gear, then you're not worth risking 20-30 minutes of time on.   I've found no other easily available indicator in the game lobby that has any proven relevance to in game skill or effort that I've found other than taking both an appropriately leveled and equipped character. 

MaxCrushmore wrote...

Common sense can tell you who belongs and who doesn't

I agree completely which is why I'd boot you.  Like I've said, I've only been wrong ONCE in hundreds of games out of a total 2,000+ games regarding this issue.  If 99% of the time I'm disappointed when I allow someone with a level 1-10 character into a gold game, COMMON SENSE tells me that I shouldn't allow it. 

[ForTuchanka]

Hulk Hsieh wrote...

Level 1 carrying 9 missiles and using them >> Level 20 and not using missiles.

You have NO way of knowing if that level 1 carrying 9 missles in the lobby will actually USE them.  I've found that the vast majority of players who take inappropriately leveled and geared characters will also NOT use gels and rockets appropriately either.  They'll choose to bleed out instead of gel'ing when they go down frequently multiple times a wave and choose to do nothing if they end up being one of two remaining players not surprise or lag instakilled on a wave 10 objective instead of using rockets.   Again, I have only what you objectively show me to make an admittedly subjective decision.  If you show me that you want to ready up for the game with crap, I'll show you a short loading screen on your way out.

[Shampoohorn]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Though I promise I won't do it next time we're in a match.  (Though the time after that...)

Star fury wrote...

Why not? You're free to bring lvl 1 even on plat. 

Just that we haven't played together in a while.  Complete destruction would be a more interesting way to reacquaint.  Preferrably with krogans.

I doubt I'll bring a lvl 1 into a Plat match unless I'm impressed into it by one of my more role-playing focused friends. 

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 21 mars 2013 - 05:28 .

[MaxCrushmore]

ForTuchanka wrote...

MaxCrushmore wrote...
I only play infiltrators at sub level 10 on gold personally. Besides the character level though, there are other indicators as to who falls into the other %2 ... as I stated in another post on this thread, if I join your lobby with a level 1 TGI, but am using a BW X, with grenade capacity V, sniper amp III, AP III, with 1900 N7 10,000 Challenge pts (both typically meaningless i agree, but indicators) ... can you unilaterally say that this kit will not contribute?

No, but I can unilaterally say with 100% certainty that YOU personally would do better in the game with a level 10 TGI or especially a level 20 TGI.   For me, it's an issue of respect for PUG players.  If you're not willing to show me that you're willing to put for a full effort by your choice of a purposely low character and/or gear, then you're not worth risking 20-30 minutes of time on.   I've found no other easily available indicator in the game lobby that has any proven relevance to in game skill or effort that I've found other than taking both an appropriately leveled and equipped character. 

MaxCrushmore wrote...

Common sense can tell you who belongs and who doesn't

I agree completely which is why I'd boot you.  Like I've said, I've only been wrong ONCE in hundreds of games out of a total 2,000+ games regarding this issue.  If 99% of the time I'm disappointed when I allow someone with a level 1-10 character into a gold game, COMMON SENSE tells me that I shouldn't allow it. 

LOL, I agree ... I am laughing because you must not play on PSN? I find it almost impossible to either join a game with anyone using consumables, or start a lobby and have anyone join at all. Sadly I cannot afford to be that picky ...

Ideally it would all be level 15+ characters using consumables, but that is currently a pipe dream. If someone joins my lobby with consumbles, that shows me they are committed to the match, regardless of level ...

And I roll my characters over when they hit 20, I don't find silver challenging enough with the infiltrator class specifically, so I level them up in gold.

Curious, you would rather have a level 20 person with an N7 rating at 200 using no consumables, than someone with the setup I listed above? because by your criteria you must wait a long time at the start of your matches looking for the perfect PUG ...

[sabreracer]

If I was PUGing I wouldn't take less than a level 10 into Gold. With friends it's completely different now. A few weeks ago I would have hesitated taking a level 1 into Silver. But now I'm confident in both my own skills and especially theirs for the match to be straight forward regardless of the level of a kit that I'm happy with. Likewise if I'm running a kit that I'm not good with I wouldn't gimp the team by using a low level for Gold/Plat.

[ForTuchanka]

MaxCrushmore wrote...
LOL, I agree ... I am laughing because you must not play on PSN? I find it almost impossible to either join a game with anyone using consumables, or start a lobby and have anyone join at all. Sadly I cannot afford to be that picky ...

*snip*

Curious, you would rather have a level 20 person with an N7 rating at 200 using no consumables, than someone with the setup I listed above? because by your criteria you must wait a long time at the start of your matches looking for the perfect PUG ...

No, I'm on the xbox which does admittedly have a bigger player base for the series for obvious reasons.  Lobbies are filling up slower now that they did months ago even on the xbox but I'd rather spend an extra 5 minutes in the lobby seeking a group of 4 appropriate characters and players that will likely stay stable for a few games (from my experience) than wasting 20-30 minutes on a failed wave 10 objective because one or two players didn't try.  I don't want my comments in this thread to feel like I'm addressing or attacking you personally but I've simply found no other comparable way of judging quickly in a lobby the effort that the player will put forth and the skill they display than the choices they make pregame.  To answer your question, I rarely spend more than 5 minutes searching for a gold game that fits what I want even if I'm not playing with any friends.  If I'm playing with friends, one of us hosts; otherwise, I just search for other people's games.   Platinum takes longer because I refuse to hide in the Rio box of shame so that rules out half of platinum lobbies on xbox.

As I've said, I ask that players both use appropriate character level AND equipment regardless of their rank.  I've found that players who take level 20 characters but don't use equipment pregrame ALSO choose not to use rockets and gels when appropriate either (like when others get istakilled and they're facing two primes, 2 hunters, two bombers, and pyro in a small room as the last player standing).  Those players also frequently quit out when things go south as well as they have nothing to lose by leaving the match.   It's obviously not perfect but I plug in my mic and ask the player to "invest" in the game by wagering at least 5 levels worth of consumable gear in the match.  I've found that requiring people to put a bet on the success of the game weeds out the people that will quit early quite successfully.  Do people occasionally quit regardless or refuse to use gels/rockets?  Sure... but much much less frequently than if they invested in the match pregame.  Mind you, I also follow the above myself when I join random games and leave voluntarily when the majority of players doesn't agree.

In the end, it comes down to simple math.  I've found a few indicators that work with a high degree of probability and I choose to use them.  Will I occasionally be wrong?  Sure... but I'd rather be occasionally wrong 1/10 of the time if that means that I have 9/10 fun games. 

Modifié par ForTuchanka, 21 mars 2013 - 05:50 .

[Shampoohorn]

ForTuchanka wrote...

MaxCrushmore wrote...
I only play infiltrators at sub level 10 on gold personally. Besides the character level though, there are other indicators as to who falls into the other %2 ... as I stated in another post on this thread, if I join your lobby with a level 1 TGI, but am using a BW X, with grenade capacity V, sniper amp III, AP III, with 1900 N7 10,000 Challenge pts (both typically meaningless i agree, but indicators) ... can you unilaterally say that this kit will not contribute?

No, but I can unilaterally say with 100% certainty that YOU personally would do better in the game with a level 10 TGI or especially a level 20 TGI.   For me, it's an issue of respect for PUG players.  If you're not willing to show me that you're willing to put for a full effort by your choice of a purposely low character and/or gear, then you're not worth risking 20-30 minutes of time on.   I've found no other easily available indicator in the game lobby that has any proven relevance to in game skill or effort that I've found other than taking both an appropriately leveled and equipped character. 

I hear you Tuchanka, but it's a bit unrealistic to apply criteria like personal 'risk' or maximal efficiency as requirements in pick up games.  If Max or me or whoever can be better with two skill points thank most players with 84, it's a win for the team.  By your logic, only an 84 point build with max amps and gear is Full Effort and therefor the only way to respect a PUG.  I can't imagine that's the standard you hold yourself to. 

I'm inclined to laugh at the notion of respect in this context, but I do get where you're coming from.  I would not show up in a PUG match with no gear, a Predator, and only a few points in fitness.  I don't want to make the game a chore.  That's not really what I was suggesting in my original post.

Like I said before, you're free to kick.  You're free to ignore other indicators that a player is going an asset to the team with a 2 point build.  You're also free not to and let it ride.  Such is the nature of PUGs.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 21 mars 2013 - 05:53 .

[S.T.G]

keep playing level 1's in gold, and i'll keep quitting or kicking dbag's like urself. Like the rest of the team enjoys carrying your weak sauce ass.

[Shampoohorn]

S.T.G wrote...

keep playing level 1's in gold, and i'll keep quitting or kicking dbag's like urself. Like the rest of the team enjoys carrying your weak sauce ass.

Troll.

[S.T.G]

Fu*ckstick.

[ForTuchanka]

Shampoohorn wrote...

I hear you Tuchanka, but it's a bit unrealistic to apply criteria like personal 'risk' or maximal efficiency as requirements in pick up games.  If Max or me or whoever can be better with two skill points thank most players with 84, it's a win for the team.  By your logic, only an 84 point build with max amps and gear is Full Effort and therefor the only way to respect a PUG.  I can't imagine that's the standard you hold yourself to. 

I'm inclined to laugh at the notion of respect  in this context, butI do get where you're coming from.  I would not show up in a PUG match with no gear, a Predator, and only a few points in fitness.  I don't want to make the game a chore.

Like I said before, you're free to kick.  You're free to ignore other indicators that a player is going an asset to the team with a 2 point build.  You're also free not to and let it ride.  Such is the nature of PUGs.

Indeed.  To each his own and (as I said earlier) I voluntarily leave game lobbies where the majority of players don't agree.  As for unrealistic criteria, I've been using the criteria for months and my MP experience in terms of fun (not actual XP necessarily) has improved dramatically.  Also, I'm not sure if I made it clear (although I did definitely mention it) but I don't ask people to use level 20 characters with full level 3+ gear in every spot with maxed UR or rare power weapons for gold games.  I consider gold appropriate to be a level 15+ character with 4-5 levels of consumable gear equiped (to avoid the pitifull all level 1 loadout).  Platinum for me means level 18+ will all level 3 and up consumables of your choice.

Modifié par ForTuchanka, 21 mars 2013 - 06:09 .

[Shampoohorn]

S.T.G wrote...

..*ckstick.

See.  I was right.  And not a very good one.

Also: reported.

[Shampoohorn]

ForTuchanka wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...
I hear you Tuchanka, but it's a bit unrealistic to apply criteria like personal 'risk' or maximal efficiency as requirements in pick up games.  If Max or me or whoever can be better with two skill points thank most players with 84, it's a win for the team.  By your logic, only an 84 point build with max amps and gear is Full Effort and therefor the only way to respect a PUG.  I can't imagine that's the standard you hold yourself to. 

I'm inclined to laugh at the notion of respect  in this context, butI do get where you're coming from.  I would not show up in a PUG match with no gear, a Predator, and only a few points in fitness.  I don't want to make the game a chore.

Like I said before, you're free to kick.  You're free to ignore other indicators that a player is going an asset to the team with a 2 point build.  You're also free not to and let it ride.  Such is the nature of PUGs.

Indeed.  To each his own and (as I said earlier) I leave game lobbies where the majority of players don't agree.  As for unrealistic criteria, I've been using the criteria for months and my MP experience in terms of fun (not actual XP necessarily) has improved dramatically.  Also, I'm not sure if I made it clear (although I did definitely mention it) but I don't ask people to use level 20 characters with full level 3+ gear in every spot with maxed UR or rare power weapons for gold games.  I consider gold appropriate to be a level 15+ character with 4-5 levels of consumable gear equiped (to avoid the pitifull all level 1 loadout).  Platinum for me means level 18+ will all level 3 and up consumables of your choice.

I still think there's validity to my top post though.  Particularly with respect to the audience here, which is mostly of high skill level and hardly the majority of actual players on any given platform.  Otherwise, I generally agree with you.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 21 mars 2013 - 06:56 .

[Star fury]

Shampoohorn wrote...

Just that we haven't played together in a while.  Complete destruction would be a more interesting way to reacquaint.  Preferrably with krogans.

Yes, agree 100%!

[The Answer]

It's been done. It's hilarious to get top score in a Gold game with a level 1 character.

[MaxCrushmore]

No worries Tuchancka, I certainly don't consider a constructive debate a personal attack (for that see: S.T.G. 'contributions' <generously labelled>)

But you nailed it, if someone has at least 4-5 levels of consumables, that shows me they are dedicated, will most likely use gels/rockets, not rage quit, etc. ... regardless of level. You say it is getting tougher to find good games, that decay will increase and you may be forced into a relaxation of your requirements ... again, I find your definition of consumable amp useage to be a good indicator of dedication.

Personally I don't give a damn about other players skill levels, as long as they are attempting to do objective waves, occasional revive, can keep themselves alive for 1 or 2 rounds, etc.

S.T.G. - It must burn you to be outscored by lower level characters, eh? Cause I personally don't give a damn about the scorboard, but your comments would indicate you do ...

The Answer - yes it happens, but top score with a level 1 character always takes a long game

Modifié par MaxCrushmore, 21 mars 2013 - 06:54 .

[longgamma]

Base human soldier and infiltrator are very good to get your character upto Level 10 with a good game. With the other kits, I mostly used to cheese it with the GPS.

[Shampoohorn]

longgamma wrote...

Base human soldier and infiltrator are very good to get your character upto Level 10 with a good game. With the other kits, I mostly used to cheese it with the GPS.

I've avoided taking kits that are cooldown dependant.  It's much easier to take a grenadier with GG-V and two heavy weapons.  The Ghost and other infiltrators are the obvious exception to this due to TC's mechanics.

[BYC]

I've said this before in other threads, but I haven't kicked anybody in a long time.

To me, it's not worth the effort. It's easier and faster to go into a game and find out if the team sucks or not. If it does (like people dying often on wave 1 or taking forever to finish early waves), I don't use consumes, and I'll just let myself bleed out. It's faster to start and finish a game quickly than it is to wait for the "perfect" teammates. In my 570+ hours of online play, I've seen tons of waiting in lobby while people setup, buy things, level a new character, small talk, or any other number of things that just kill time instead of just going and playing. JUST GO! I rather start/finish a game in 10 minutes than wait 5 minutes for a "good" team on paper but just might suck anyways in game. Doesn't matter if it's bronze or platinum, just GO.

[Shampoohorn]

^^^
I only ever wait in lobbies with friends. In PUGs my internal timer starts alarming after about 15 seconds. Nobody readying up? I leave. Nobody putting on a single piece of gear? I'll probably leave though not always.

I've got no interest in 5 minute matches though. I'd much rather have a game go to completion then fail on wave 2, 6, 9 whenever. The only exception to that is when we lose somebody and it's three of us or two of us and only one of us is really carrying the the group. After I've solo'd three straight waves, I've got no big issues with a team wipe. 30 minute matches suck.

[yamada1979]

This should be the unofficial weekend challenge for this weekend: extract on gold with a level one character.

[Shampoohorn]

yamada1979 wrote...

This should be the unofficial weekend challenge for this weekend: extract on gold with a level one character.

It's no big deal when one competent player in a Gold PUG is low level.  If everyone was trying to do it at once?  Filling all the Gold lobbies?  I shudder to think.

[HolyAvenger]

Shampoohorn wrote...

yamada1979 wrote...

This should be the unofficial weekend challenge for this weekend: extract on gold with a level one character.

It's no big deal when one competent player in a Gold PUG is low level.  If everyone was trying to do it at once?  Filling all the Gold lobbies?  I shudder to think.

 

I've been part of a match where we did it for the challenge, along with common weapons. I got DC'd wave 7 but the others extracted. Reapers/Goddess/Gold. TSent, Batdept, can't remember the other two. Took them 40 gruelling minutes I believe.

[Pugz82]

I bring level 1's into platinum...when I play with friends

[Shampoohorn]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...

yamada1979 wrote...

This should be the unofficial weekend challenge for this weekend: extract on gold with a level one character.

It's no big deal when one competent player in a Gold PUG is low level.  If everyone was trying to do it at once?  Filling all the Gold lobbies?  I shudder to think.

 

I've been part of a match where we did it for the challenge, along with common weapons. I got DC'd wave 7 but the others extracted. Reapers/Goddess/Gold. TSent, Batdept, can't remember the other two. Took them 40 gruelling minutes I believe.

PUG vs friends being the most relevant difference.  I'll try anything with friends once.  Maybe twice.