186 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

io9.com/5890421/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-mass-effect


5. The over-arching theme of organics versus machines shaped all the story choices.

Once they had arrived at the notion of telling a story about organics versus machines, that became the "key theme," says Hudson. And that theme, in turn, "answered whether storylines were part of the main arc or smaller things. Stories about the Geth and the Quarian, the cautionary tale of creating artificial intelligence." Thus, the story of EDI in Mass Effect 2 becomes more important, because she goes from being a shackled to an "unshackled" A.I.


Well, what do you think?


EDIT -  In one of my later posts, I've tried to clarify what the theme of "organics vs. synthetics" may actually mean:


Maybe it's less about "organics vs. synthetics" and more about the nature of life and existence? What does it mean to be alive? What is consciousness? Does one's physical form really matter?

These questions are definitely relevant to Mass Effect.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 21 mars 2013 - 09:21 .

[David7204]

When did that interview take place?

[CosmicGnosis]

The article was posted on March 5, 2012, just before ME3's release. The interview apparently happened a week earlier.

[NeonFlux117]

duh.

[Ieldra]

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 mars 2013 - 08:24 .

[daaaav]

Over-arching theme? I think not. I was shown examples of conflict between organic and synthetic life throughout Mass Effect but I was given no reasoning as to why organics and synthetics are doomed to eternal conflict. I was even allowed to resolve those specific cases.

How do I resolve the supposed over-arching issue if I don't understand it?

[Applepie_Svk]

Casey loves Deus Ex, Casey loves Matrix, Casey loves ME - therefore ME has to be about Organics/synthetics...

Uh just no...

[NeonFlux117]

You can broker peace between the Geth and Quarian, thus ending this cycles main Synthetic and Organic conflict and "Chaos". The only chaos I see while Shepard is making peace is the reapers and Cerberus- who are basically reaper controlled by ME3.


But the catalyst tells you that the peace won't last...... Blah,blah,blah.


And I derped and picked synthesis........ Oh wait, no I didn't silly me. I always pick destroy. Cause you know, reapers are bad and the catalyst was the first reaper (Leviathan DLC). So........... Yeah.

Modifié par NeonFlux117, 21 mars 2013 - 08:29 .

[whalewhisker]

I think it's dumb and lazy.

[IanPolaris]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

io9.com/5890421/10-things-you-probably-didnt-know-about-mass-effect


5. The over-arching theme of organics versus machines shaped all the story choices.

Once they had arrived at the notion of telling a story about organics versus machines, that became the "key theme," says Hudson. And that theme, in turn, "answered whether storylines were part of the main arc or smaller things. Stories about the Geth and the Quarian, the cautionary tale of creating artificial intelligence." Thus, the story of EDI in Mass Effect 2 becomes more important, because she goes from being a shackled to an "unshackled" A.I.


Well, what do you think?

Two Words:

EPIC FAIL

-Polaris

[NeonFlux117]

whalewhisker wrote...

I think it's dumb and lazy.

Not dumb and lazy....... it's "art". Didn't you get the memo....... ART.

[d-boy15]

organics versus machines always the theme of ME, we keep fighting the reaper from the start.

but the problem about synthetic kill all organic is something that never been mentioned before
until the last 15 minutes.

and to be fair, they got about 20+ hours to do that but they don't, instead they just keep telling
us how evil reaper and illusive man are.

[daaaav]

d-boy15 wrote...

organics versus machines always the theme of ME, we keep fighting the reaper from the start.

but the problem about synthetic kill all organic is something that never been mentioned before
until the last 15 minutes.

and to be fair, they got about 20+ hours to do that but they don't, instead they just keep telling
us how evil reaper and illusive man are.

- Reapers don't discriminate between organics and synthetics.

- Javik gives you a possible reason why synthetics may resent organics but it is never followed up on and completely absent if you didn't buy the dlc.

- We are allowed to resolve every single conflict between Reapers and Organics presented to us.

[MrFob]

And this was exactly the wrong way to go. Once they decided that the main plot was going to be organics vs. synthetics (which they did far too late in the first place) it makes absolutely no sense to tell that story three for four times over. It makes even less sense to actually resolve the conflict to everyone's satisfaction in the b plots but describe it as unsolvable in the main plot. And top it all off, the main character doesn't even get to reference the side stories when the main plot is heading in that direction.
Sorry Mr. Hudson but that statement shows even more narrative incompetence, not less.

Modifié par MrFob, 21 mars 2013 - 08:50 .

[Eterna]

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment? 

Modifié par Eterna5, 21 mars 2013 - 08:52 .

[CosmicGnosis]

I think ME1 really does seem like an "organics vs. synthetics" story. ME2 is when that plot becomes less prominent, although Legion and the Reaper construction process contribute to it. By ME3, however, it doesn't really seem more important than the other plots going on until the very end.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 21 mars 2013 - 08:56 .

[daaaav]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment? 

It's Reapers vs non reapers. Not Reapers vs Organics. Can you give me one reason why synthetics and organics are supposed to hate each other that isn't resolved during the trilogy?

[Eterna]

I think some people forget that the Synthetic vs Organic conflict is not just a theme limited to the Geth vs Quarian arc.

[Applepie_Svk]

daaaav wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

organics versus machines always the theme of ME, we keep fighting the reaper from the start.

but the problem about synthetic kill all organic is something that never been mentioned before
until the last 15 minutes.

and to be fair, they got about 20+ hours to do that but they don't, instead they just keep telling
us how evil reaper and illusive man are.

- Reapers don't discriminate between organics and synthetics.

- Javik gives you a possible reason why synthetics may resent organics but it is never followed up on and completely absent if you didn't buy the dlc.

- We are allowed to resolve every single conflict between Reapers and Organics presented to us.

ME1 ? Yes

ME2? No, Geths relationship with Reapers was explained and Geth backstory estabilished in different way.

ME3 ? Again mutliple times thru narrative estabilished that Reapers are those behind the synthetics rebelling against organics. But in last 10 minutes all has changed, main two points of narrative hidden in paid DLC <_<  How I dare to question artistic integrity...

ME3 plot of synthetics vs organics was so contrived and forced thru narrative that I have to puke when I am just watching it on youtube. Reapers arrived - galaxy in fire - Quarians going to launch an assault because of "reasons", Geths running straight to Reapers because of "reasons" instead of trying to find Shepard and clear this crap.

ME series after ME2 was about cycle vs Reapers.

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 21 mars 2013 - 08:59 .

[NeonFlux117]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment? 

Reapers aren't synthetic, their organic material/essence/minds in a synthetic shell. They absorb the "essence of an organic species and preserve them". so.... yeah. 



BTW we never get an explanation of what an "essence of organic life" is. I really wanted to ask Harby, I mean the Catalyst that one. 

[Eterna]

daaaav wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment? 

It's Reapers vs non reapers. Not Reapers vs Organics. Can you give me one reason why synthetics and organics are supposed to hate each other that isn't resolved during the trilogy?

http://masseffect.wi...Signal_Tracking

Also, most of the Synthetic conflicts would not be resolved without Shepard. There would have been no peace on Rannoch without him/her, not to mention that there is no canon outcome for the Rannoch arc. It is only resolved for some people and honestly they should have removed the peace option entirely. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

So Ass Effect was previously known as SEX? I see the correlation now.. O.o

[NeonFlux117]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

daaaav wrote...

d-boy15 wrote...

organics versus machines always the theme of ME, we keep fighting the reaper from the start.

but the problem about synthetic kill all organic is something that never been mentioned before
until the last 15 minutes.

and to be fair, they got about 20+ hours to do that but they don't, instead they just keep telling
us how evil reaper and illusive man are.

- Reapers don't discriminate between organics and synthetics.

- Javik gives you a possible reason why synthetics may resent organics but it is never followed up on and completely absent if you didn't buy the dlc.

- We are allowed to resolve every single conflict between Reapers and Organics presented to us.

ME1 ? Yes

ME2? No, Geths relationship with Reapers was explained and Geth backstory estabilished in different way.

ME3 ? Again mutliple times thru narrative estabilished that Reapers are those behind the synthetics rebelling against organics. But in last 10 minutes all has changed, main two points of narrative hidden in paid DLC <_<  How I dare to question artistic integrity...

ME3 plot of synthetics vs organics was so contrived and forced thru narrative that I have to puke when I am just watching it on youtube. Reapers arrived - galaxy in fire - Quarians going to launch an assault because of "reasons", Geths running straight to Reapers because of "reasons" instead of trying to find Shepard and clear this crap.

ME series after ME2 was about cycle vs Reapers.

No, no, No!!! you are thinking in a practical and logical way.Go away. Be gone demon be gone. 

[Eterna]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment? 

Reapers aren't synthetic, their organic material/essence/minds in a synthetic shell. They absorb the "essence of an organic species and preserve them". so.... yeah. 



BTW we never get an explanation of what an "essence of organic life" is. I really wanted to ask Harby, I mean the Catalyst that one. 

"Sentient race of Machines responsible for cleansing the Galaxy..."

From the ME3 intro.

[Ieldra]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What I think? That the perception of the writers that specific story arcs became more important in the context of the main theme "organics vs. synthetics" was not sufficiently communicated to the players. The geth/quarian conflict and Legion's story do not appear to be more important than, say, the genophage arc. The first hint we get of the organic/synthetic theme being more important is is at the end of the Reaper Base mission on Rannoch.

But isn't the Reaper vs all organic life a prime example of Synthetic vs organic theme which was present in each installment?

In ME1 the theme was intact, yes. But the reimagining of the Reapers as "organic constructs" (EDI on the SM) did a lot of damage to that idea at a critical junction of the story. Had they stuck with the cut dialogue and made Legion's conversation about the nature of the Reapers more accessible, the idea may have held.

The fraying out of the plot into several seemingly unrelated strands in ME2 didn't help either.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 mars 2013 - 09:07 .