87 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

You cannot make a game that has, for example, medicine, where using medicine in the game is as difficult and requires as much knowledge as it does in real life. Even if you made it just as challenging and 'realistic', it would have to be actually somewhat enjoyable to players. And even if you found the miniscule number of players in the market  that would find it doable and enjoyable, you'd go completely bankrupt since you're not selling to anyone else. And even if money wasn't an issue, you would constrained by the limits of practicing medicine through a mouse and keyboard on a video screen. You can't replicate it perfectly, and for some things, such as combat, you can't replicate them at all.

Again, that's all assuming the developers themselves would make a satisfying and convincing simulation at all, which of course very, very, very few would be able to.

Modifié par David7204, 23 mars 2013 - 07:22 .

[shodiswe]

Valentia X wrote...

 

If ME3 always had a happy end, no matter what, I'd also be disappointed. I was hoping that BW would reflect the different experiences, the player can have during the game in their endings but that didn't happen. That's what's causing my dissatisfaction, the lack of variety, not my preference to a certain type of narrative.

I still think they would have been better off if they gave us a number of choices. Hell, they could keep the current 4 in, in different incarnations.


1. Low EMS Destroy. Rocks fall, almost everyone dies, basically the same as it is now. Synthetics die. This is the 'no risks taken' ending- you sacrifice must to save everyone.
2. Low-ish EMS Destroy. Rocks falls, not quite as many people die, you manage to save at least a few squaddies. Synthetics dies.
3. Control becomes an option. Shepard is uploaded into the Great Reaper Slushie in the Sky, same as in game.
4. Medium EMS Destroy. Rocks fall, a lot of people die, but you manage to save the council.
5. Medium Control. Shepard is permanently mindlinked to the Reapers but remains in a human body. This creates a 'what will happen in the future' scenario. For lulz, put Shepard into a coma that they're trying to wake them out of.
6. Synthesis becomes an option. Shepard polevaults into the Green Steam o' Doom, space magic happens.
7. High EMS Destroy. Rocks fall, Reapers die. Synthetics live.
8. High Control. Shepard's personality is uploaded, but Shepard remains in their own body. The Reapers, now working on Shepard logic, act according to Paragon or Renegade beliefs.
9. High Synthesis. Shepard touches the Green Stream, their DNA is dispersed. Space magic with a still alive Shepard.
10. Refuse. This option should technically be avaliable at the beginning, but if you have everything JUST in place, with insanely high War Assets, almost everyone on board, you are able to direct a frontal assault on the Reapers. Many die, but the war is won on the Galaxy's terms.

I could accept most of that, thoguh it's far too easy to get those war assets maxed, it would be hard to justify the difference when the onyl way to get it too low is by conciously sabotaging the war effort.

And Point 10. I have a problem with Point 10, the galaxy woudlnt waste Resources on the crusible if the Reapers were even remotely vulnerable to a conventional victory. The Crusible show how utterly desperate the galaxy is, we're told there is no way to win conventionaly.
Beating the Reapers on and above Earth just destroys a small percentage of the reapers, by the end of ME3 the Reapers are all over the galaxy and it looks like the reapers around Earth took down most of the combined allied fleet. The reapers might have taken losses around Earth but they still got most of their war assets left, while the galaxys organics and synthetics just wasted most of what they had to bring down a few reapers. And yes peopel say they could use different tactics, not after the crusible has been delivered and the fleets are nothing more than debris..

Secondly there are too many reapers in the galaxy to wear them down conventionaly, they will eventualy have worn down every inustrial facility and major population center within a year the galactic economy will be in shambles and there won't be enough Resources to maintain rearm and fuel the fleets of the galaxy.

If the Reapers could be defeated conventionaly then it would have been the idea choice from the beginning due to the huge unknown factors of the crusible Project, they didn't even know what it did, just that it would bleed them dry but it was a better chance than no chance what so ever.

Bioware made it this way. Do I like the endings, not really I tihnk they were poorly executed, the basic ideas arn't bad themselves but Bioware didn't build it up, explain it so everyone understood them and it was somthign thrown in the face of the player in the last minute. If Shepard had gained a codex entry and a further explanation of the crusible for every scientist engineer and other assets gathered for the crusible specificly then it could have leed up to the realziation that the crusible is a powersource for a device.... Perhaps the last pieces recovered from Cronus station could have explained more about the original ideas behind the device and how it was thought to work with the citadel.
Hackett and the council coudl have told you to follow it thoguh what ever it takes then the council's transmission is broken as the citadel is moved to Earth and Communications are jammed.

Then there and then where you know a lot about it and you know you got the mandate to do whatever it takes to save people you would be better armed to face off agaisnt the catalyst and hear it's side of the story and whatever it would have to say which would be somewhat confirmed by what you have already been told by the galaxys scientists and the protean VI.
You have also been ordered to do whatever it takes to end the cycles and save and protect the galaxy. Which in a way is the job descriotion of a Spectre already, but just to clarify it to those who didn't Think the council gave Shepard that authority back in ME1.
Which meens that all options would work, they would also be better explained, and better justified.

As for Point 8, if Shepard is still alive then it would be better if a link is created between Shepard and the servers that once housed the Catalyst, with the catalyst killed by flashing the catalysts databanks and replacing it with Shepard. Shepard would work in a similar way as EDI with a body and a serverside that Controls and directs the Reapers. The Lazarus Project Tech in Shepard could keep rebuilding and preserving Shepards body for all eternity or until someoen kills him permanently, or an accident happens. But really, if all of Shepards memories are there then the bocy could just be cloned since it's as replacable as and Geth platform. Just make a new and transfer the personality(as long as Everything was stored and copied sucessfully).

[shodiswe]

David7204 wrote...

You cannot make a game that has, for example, medicine, where using medicine in the game is as difficult and requires as much knowledge as it does in real life. Even if you made it just as challenging and 'realistic', it would have to be actually somewhat enjoyable to players. And even if you found the miniscule number of players in the market  that would find it doable and enjoyable, you'd go completely bankrupt since you're not selling to anyone else. And even if money wasn't an issue, you would constrained by the limits of practicing medicine through a mouse and keyboard on a video screen. You can't replicate it perfectly, and for some things, such as combat, you can't replicate them at all.

Also there is now Vetigel or Medigel as the producer wants to call the military version. With advanced VI's and onitools you can easy get an easy delivery system for the medication. People woudln't have to be medics to perform emergency patchups.

If people survived the "action" they can see a doctor afterwars to see if anythign else needs or can be done by a Medical professional.  Maybe scar reduction or replacement of badly damaged tissues with cloned tissues.

[shodiswe]

Now, if a supersecret super ending would have been made available with a dificulty and choces to be made but it required you to soloing content on par with a Platinum MP game with a few extra chocies and things along the way while limping around... then sure.

On the other hand people would complain that they can't get the best ending and be upset about that.
Or you could have multiplayer promoted forces join you N7 ops run by (NPC mechancis) that suicide their way towards your goal as you limp along. when you run out of forces you have to fight on your own or fail utterly.

That way it coud lbe accomplished with just single player and hours a tedious soloing for each ending, but it would get a lot easier if you did soem multiplayer.
Which would reward multiplayer but it woudln't add a multiplayer exclusive ending.

Maybe add one of each playable multiplayer character from each of the archetypes from multiplayer that had been promoted, but just one batch of each type. Sending in ten Waves of adepts, Soldiers and so on would be crazy.

Modifié par shodiswe, 23 mars 2013 - 07:34 .

[shodiswe]

Secondly I think the singleplayer recruited war assets could have been portrayed better in priority Earth.

[David7204]

Hell. No. No multiplayer nonsense, period.

Restarting the game 80 times in a row to beat a super-hard last level is not going to be the slightest bit enjoyable. It's going to be miserable and frustrating. A game should not be miserable and frustrating.

Modifié par David7204, 23 mars 2013 - 07:33 .

[shodiswe]

David7204 wrote...

Hell. No. No multiplayer nonsense, period.

Restarting the game 80 times in a row to beat a super-hard last level is not going to be the slightest bit enjoyable. It's going to be miserable and frustrating. A game should not be miserable and frustrating.

It woudl only be for the super special ending where Shepard disables the Reapers and makes all their Tech and knowledge available for the galaxy and ensures that the galaxy is forever free of the reaeprs and kills of the Catalyst sending it screaming to it's Death. People would torture themselves to kill the catalyst with their bare hands!

[Raiil]

I could accept most of that, thoguh it's far too easy to get those war assets maxed, it would be hard to justify the difference when the onyl way to get it too low is by conciously sabotaging the war effort.

Initially, no, at least not in the way I had in mind. Eventually, yes- much in the same way that, with Lair of the Shadow Broker, it became much easier to get lots of upgrades since you could roll over to a new game and use the bonus resources. I have no problem with subsequent playthroughs becoming much easier. It's also why I said you needed to have things done specifically- in my mind, certain permaters would have to be established (i.e. you MUST have both the quarians and the geth on board, as many squaddies alive as is possible in game, that sort of thing). It should be difficult- at least at first.

And Point 10. I have a problem with Point 10, the galaxy woudlnt waste Resources on the crusible if the Reapers were even remotely vulnerable to a conventional victory. The Crusible show how utterly desperate the galaxy is, we're told there is no way to win conventionaly. (snip)

And again, in order to do so and do so effectively, Shepard would have to get things done in a certain way, with a lot of assets, and they would still have losses from war.

And you can already make the resources moot. The Refuse ending as it is in game allows you to do so.


The whole point of Refusal would be that it's a win/lose scenario- you can only win under extremely specific circumstances, AND Shepard has a variety of options with much less potential of loss. It's philosophical, and no less loopy then, say, Synthesis, which came from left field via the Horsehead Nebula (in terms of Deus Ex Machina). It's a matter of choice; do you win with the help of the Starkid, or do you grit your teeth and do it the hard way, knowing you're condemning a lot of people to death BUT doing it on your terms, not the term of some ancient AI? Winning with Refusal would be extraordinarily difficult and still result in a badly damaged galaxy anyways. It's choice, and choice should matter.

As for Point 8, if Shepard is still alive then it would be better if a link is created between Shepard and the servers that once housed the Catalyst, with the catalyst killed by flashing the catalysts databanks and replacing it with Shepard. Shepard would work in a similar way as EDI with a body and a serverside that Controls and directs the Reapers. The Lazarus Project Tech in Shepard could keep rebuilding and preserving Shepards body for all eternity or until someoen kills him permanently, or an accident happens. But really, if all of Shepards memories are there then the bocy could just be cloned since it's as replacable as and Geth platform. Just make a new and transfer the personality(as long as Everything was stored and copied sucessfully).

That's partially the point of Control- it's more or less a crapshoot, albeit one that some people might be willing to take. It also allows for some wiggle room in a player's personal canon, because some people might want to be high and mighty overlords, others might want to be Almight Janitors, and still others might be the type who would rather destroy themselves instead of hurting innocents, driving the Reapers to self-terminate. And your idea is closer to my point 5.

[David7204]

shodiswe wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hell. No. No multiplayer nonsense, period.

Restarting the game 80 times in a row to beat a super-hard last level is not going to be the slightest bit enjoyable. It's going to be miserable and frustrating. A game should not be miserable and frustrating.

It woudl only be for the super special ending where Shepard disables the Reapers and makes all their Tech and knowledge available for the galaxy and ensures that the galaxy is forever free of the reaeprs and kills of the Catalyst sending it screaming to it's Death. People would torture themselves to kill the catalyst with their bare hands!

No. A game should not be miserable and frustrating. Period.

Modifié par David7204, 23 mars 2013 - 07:40 .

[shodiswe]

But really I think the endigns coudl have been presented in a better fashion. And I know most casual players would get frustrated if there was an ending that was almost impossible for them to get. But it would be Close to a sucessful refuse, I guess.  I could acept it if there was some Catch to getting it.

But you don't give a vastly superior ending for the price of a lesser ending, then it invalidates the other edings. Things like a sucessful refuse would requier soemthing that people wouldn't want to do or would have to work hard to get as compared to lesser endings.

But tbh im against Sucessful Refuse for the above mentioned reasons. It would give the game 1 superior ending that invalidates all others with no justification.  We would go down from a few endings to just one ending with a few troll endings that people laugh at.

[Raiil]

shodiswe wrote...

But really I think the endigns coudl have been presented in a better fashion. And I know most casual players would get frustrated if there was an ending that was almost impossible for them to get. But it would be Close to a sucessful refuse, I guess.  I could acept it if there was some Catch to getting it.

But you don't give a vastly superior ending for the price of a lesser ending, then it invalidates the other edings. Things like a sucessful refuse would requier soemthing that people wouldn't want to do or would have to work hard to get as compared to lesser endings.

But tbh im against Sucessful Refuse for the above mentioned reasons. It would give the game 1 superior ending that invalidates all others with no justification.  We would go down from a few endings to just one ending with a few troll endings that people laugh at.

How is an ending where you sustain a big loss of life and still have a crippled galaxy a 'superior' ending?

[AshenShug4r]

Steelcan wrote...

I'm going to have to agree with David on this....., reluctantly

x2. I tend to disagree on everything else, but this post had me nodding my head.

[katamuro]

I agree with you OP. Games should be fun. I am not a hardcore player. Some people think that the only real fun comes out of barely beating the game, but I disagree. If you struggle throughout the whole game just to arrive at the ending so you can say you beat it you strip yourself from having fun while playing.