15 réponses à ce sujet

[Vuduu]

(cross posted from the Story and Campaign board)

  Friends at Bioware,

Over the last several months, two fan-made endings have gotten a lot of attention and praise from the community.  The MEHEM ending (http://social.biowar...ndex/14795358/1) and the Hero Ending (http://social.biowar...ndex/13207216/1).  Both of these endings attempt to wrap up the Mass Effect series in a way that many, but not all, fans want.

With the release of the latest DLC, it's clear that the authors of this wonderful trilogy of games share the affection that many fans have for scenes of the Normandy crew walking off into the sunset and raising a glass to the destruction of the Reapers.  The existance of the CItadel DLC and all the fan-made endings are strong testimony to the love that players have for these characters.  

We'd ask you now to please let those of us who are so inclined make our headcanon into official canon.  Fans have provided many ways that the MEHEM and Hero endings could co-exist along with Bioware's original vision for the conclusion of the series.  We'd ask you to please make this so - allow characters who max out their game performance to have a way to trigger some version of the MEHEM or Hero endings, and end their trilogy with a sound Reaper tail-kicking, a drink at the bar, and a reunion with our LI.

Respectfully,
Vuduu, author of the Hero Ending

Modifié par Vuduu, 21 mars 2013 - 02:09 .

[Pressedcat]

Not going to happen, and nor should it.

I have absolutely nothing against the fan made endings (indeed I think the the creators have done very good jobs considering the limited toolsets they had to work with), but its BioWare's game and they get to choose how it ends. Ask for clarification: fine; give feedback about why you didn't like it: fine; ask them to staple on fan made endings: not so fine.

People are entirely within their rights to use fan-made endings if they are truly unhappy with what they already have (indeed it's a shame those on consoles can't do the same), but at the end of the day it's BioWare's story, and they get to end it how they want.

What you're suggesting is akin to sending your own final chapter/epilogue to an author and asking that it replace/be included in the glossary of all copies of their book because you didn't like what they wrote.

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Enjoy mods, don't worry about making them official.

[AlexMBrennan]

What you're suggesting is akin to sending your own final chapter/epilogue to an author and asking that it replace/be included in the glossary of all copies of their book because you didn't like what they wrote.

Stop pretending that this is somehow a new threat to art (books have always been edited by editors and movies have test screenings); the only difference is logistics - it is actually possible for Bioware to change the endings thanks to our much loved origin infrastructure.

[Tarkov33]

Pressedcat wrote...

Not going to happen, and nor should it.

Pretty much this.

BioWare's done with Mass Effect 3 content outside of perhaps the odd multiplayer balance patch and even if they weren't, and even if this weren't entirely against their 'artistic integrity', if they ever started to canonize mass effect fan fiction, they'd never stop getting requests from other people who think their work should be in the game. It's a slippery slope and one I doubt they'd be fool enough to climb

I like what you've done, but I agree with what Pressedcat said about asking an artist to replace his work with yours

Modifié par Tarkov33, 21 mars 2013 - 05:24 .

[Pressedcat]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

What you're suggesting is akin to sending your own final chapter/epilogue to an author and asking that it replace/be included in the glossary of all copies of their book because you didn't like what they wrote.

Stop pretending that this is somehow a new threat to art (books have always been edited by editors and movies have test screenings); the only difference is logistics - it is actually possible for Bioware to change the endings thanks to our much loved origin infrastructure.

I'm not pretending that this is somehow a new threat to art, nor even that others do not have the right to dislike the ending as is and go to the effort of making their own ending mod: I'm simply stating my opinion that BioWare have no obligation to include such fan re-writes in their already published game. Indeed, to do so would set a precedent for all their future games: 'you included X's alterations for plot point Y which nobody had liked; why wont you include my re-interpretation for how story arc Z should be handled?'.

There will always be a place for fan-made mods - their continued discussion and development on BioWare's forums indicates that this is a fact they are accepting of - but that place is in the mods section, not incorporated in the already produced game.

Also, although books are indeed edited, it is a two way process where the editor highlights problem areas and an accord is arrived at: editors do not simply take the finished text, cut out those bits they do not like and re-write chapters according to their own interpretation before forwarding the manuscript on to the printers. The same goes with movies and test-screening: audiences will give feedback and changes may well be made, but these changes are hopefully negotiated and abetted by those responsible for making the film up to that point. In those cases where the control is taken away from these people, ill feelings abound and it is often reflected in the finished product. In the case of ME3, a parallel may be drawn between feedback of the test-audience and the production of the EC. It acts to expands and clarify on the ideas touched upon, it does not whitewash the writers' initial intent in favour of an outside source's alternate ending.

[jimw884]

I wouldn't hold your breath for this ever happening officially. However, if someone with the technical know how was able to mod them in...

[Gilbert Salarian]

Pressedcat wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

What you're suggesting is akin to sending your own final chapter/epilogue to an author and asking that it replace/be included in the glossary of all copies of their book because you didn't like what they wrote.

Stop pretending that this is somehow a new threat to art (books have always been edited by editors and movies have test screenings); the only difference is logistics - it is actually possible for Bioware to change the endings thanks to our much loved origin infrastructure.

I'm not pretending that this is somehow a new threat to art, nor even that others do not have the right to dislike the ending as is and go to the effort of making their own ending mod: I'm simply stating my opinion that BioWare have no obligation to include such fan re-writes in their already published game. Indeed, to do so would set a precedent for all their future games: 'you included X's alterations for plot point Y which nobody had liked; why wont you include my re-interpretation for how story arc Z should be handled?'.

There will always be a place for fan-made mods - their continued discussion and development on BioWare's forums indicates that this is a fact they are accepting of - but that place is in the mods section, not incorporated in the already produced game.

Also, although books are indeed edited, it is a two way process where the editor highlights problem areas and an accord is arrived at: editors do not simply take the finished text, cut out those bits they do not like and re-write chapters according to their own interpretation before forwarding the manuscript on to the printers. The same goes with movies and test-screening: audiences will give feedback and changes may well be made, but these changes are hopefully negotiated and abetted by those responsible for making the film up to that point. In those cases where the control is taken away from these people, ill feelings abound and it is often reflected in the finished product. In the case of ME3, a parallel may be drawn between feedback of the test-audience and the production of the EC. It acts to expands and clarify on the ideas touched upon, it does not whitewash the writers' initial intent in favour of an outside source's alternate ending.

Take a look at Sherlock Holmes.  He was killed off by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, but the fans blew a gasket over it and he brought Holmes back.  So it can be done and has been done both in literature and in video games (Brotherhood of Steel, anyone?)

That said, when you take fan creations -no matter how well they are made- and use them, you can be assured of an uproar.  Even just getting fans involved in the creative process can unleash a nightmare.  Look at all the ruckus that occurred when fans got to choose the default fenShep.  When you get passionate fans actively involved in the creation of a game things seldom go well.

[MrFob]

I don't know, I think I wouldn't ask BW to take my ending and implement it. While I'd be flattered if they did, lot's of the stuff you see in MEHEM is the way it is out of necessities, rather then actual design decisions.
Apparently BW doesn't want to change the ending and I have accepted that. However, if they were to change their mind for some fully hypothetical reason, I'd like to see something better than MEHEM for instance, something with their own style and touch, something that takes full advantage of their resources.
Also, to answer some comments here, personally, I don't feel like I have handed a couple of new pages to the author and said "this is better". I can see how it may be interpreted that way but as far as I am concerned, this is just another fan fiction, not unlike the hundreds that have been created over the past year. It's meant to be tribute to the universe, not an attempt at correction or insult.
I have no fondness for the original endings and I'd love to see a different ending made by BW, that is true but it sure as hell doesn't have to be - probably shouldn't be - the one I made.

[barbara2012]

PKchu wrote...

Enjoy mods, don't worry about making them official.

100 % agreed, loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeee you mehem

[Pressedcat]

MrFob wrote...

I don't know, I think I wouldn't ask BW to take my ending and implement it. While I'd be flattered if they did, lot's of the stuff you see in MEHEM is the way it is out of necessities, rather then actual design decisions.
Apparently BW doesn't want to change the ending and I have accepted that. However, if they were to change their mind for some fully hypothetical reason, I'd like to see something better than MEHEM for instance, something with their own style and touch, something that takes full advantage of their resources.
Also, to answer some comments here, personally, I don't feel like I have handed a couple of new pages to the author and said "this is better". I can see how it may be interpreted that way but as far as I am concerned, this is just another fan fiction, not unlike the hundreds that have been created over the past year. It's meant to be tribute to the universe, not an attempt at correction or insult.
I have no fondness for the original endings and I'd love to see a different ending made by BW, that is true but it sure as hell doesn't have to be - probably shouldn't be - the one I made.

Hi MrFob, I just wanted to say that I certainly didn't want to imply that your creation of the MEHEM mod was in any way akin to you sending new pages to an author with the note 'this is better'. You've always been clear that you made the mod because you weren't happy with the way the trilogy ended, and neither were a large group of other players. You created a mod showing how you would have preferred the ending to have gone down (within the limitations of the toolset and materials you had available), but as far as I know you didn't ever request that this new ending be adopted by BioWare. No doubt there are many people on these boards who wish BioWare had produced an ending more similar in tone to your own, but hopefully the more reasonable will aknowledge that BioWare had the right to finish the game accordingto their own vision, even if this unfortunately varied from their own preferences. There were certainly problems with the original ending; the major ones for me being the lack of closure and abruptness of the ending. For some the EC fixed (or at least partially mitigated) these problems; for others the problems ran deeper. For such people fan-made mods offer an alternative that hopefully allows them to carry on playing and enjoying the game. And that is a good thing: both for the fans and for BioWare (since a certain disenchanted section of their playerbase might come to appreciate other aspects of the game and come away with a more positive outlook of the company).

I never wanted to argue that fan-made mods were a bad thing or an insult to the company: far from it. I might personally prefer the concepts behind the 'canon' endings, but I recognise that the fan community is diverse enough that others might have tastes entirely different to my own, and it is impossible for BioWare to cater to all these different preferences whilst concluding the story as they want. Thus there will always be an apetite for mods such as your own. My ownly argument was that BioWare has no obligation to absorb these mods into their main plot, and that to demand they do so is to risk stepping on the toes of the company's writers. You did no such thing and are thus deserving of absolutely no criticism.

Edit: Also, to Gilbert: good point. Arthur Conan Doyle did indeed bow to fan pressure and continue the series past its intended conclusion. But by all accounts he was not best pleased to do so, as he wanted to move on to other things. Also he did not rewrite Sherlock's fall from the waterfall, he simply continued on the premise that Holmes survived the fall. I have no doubt that BioWare will be similarly influenced by their own fans feedback in going forward, I just don't think they should necessarily rewrite the end to have Moriarty flung over the crevasse and close with Sherlock lighting a pipe whilst witnessing his nemesis plummet to his lonely death.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 22 mars 2013 - 07:03 .

[dsl08002]

That MEHEM happy ending was really pleasent and you didnt´get depressed nor want to kill yourself. It was really good.

but by looking at this and then at the Ending with EC and the original bioware has truly deserved the strapline:

"what the bloody hell were you thinking of !?"

" is it that so difficult to actually create!?"

Modifié par dsl08002, 26 mars 2013 - 04:09 .

[Necrotya]

Tried out MEHEM yesterday and .......it's brilliant, props to all that were involved in it, awesome job!

[milkytoast]

I think there needs to be an expansion on the biotic god ending.
Hans Moleman aka Biotic god shows up and just crushing reapers with his mind. you know just an over to the top ending, for fun.

[Dr_Extrem]

milkytoast wrote...

I think there needs to be an expansion on the biotic god ending.
Hans Moleman aka Biotic god shows up and just crushing reapers with his mind. you know just an over to the top ending, for fun.

something like this?