232 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

Say if I were to compliment mass effect as a good work of art, would that be too taboo? If I said I enjoyed the sounds and musics of mass effect, the rich visuals mass effect has, or the well written portions of it, would that be crossing the forbidden line within the internet on how you can compliment a game?

Has ME3 made the word "art" akin to a black spot on any and all video games now?

[Makrys]

Who cares what other people think. Call it what you want. To me, it is absolutely art. The best art of this gaming generation.

[Dr_Extrem]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Say if I were to compliment mass effect as a good work of art, would that be too taboo? If I said I enjoyed the sounds and musics of mass effect, the rich visuals mass effect has, or the well written portions of it, would that be crossing the forbidden line within the internet on how you can compliment a game?

Has ME3 made the word "art" akin to a black spot on any and all video games now?

no .. only in combination with this game


"gesamtkunstwerk" is the word we are looking for.


a game can have good visuals or sound - but that alone does not make it a piece of art.

[NCommand]

Never been a bad word for me, if everything had to be done by consensus everything would be boring and bland

[SilJeff]

I don't think ME3 alone is a work of art, but I do think the trilogy as a whole definitely is to me.

TBH the only individual game in the trilogy that is to me is ME2

[3DandBeyond]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Say if I were to compliment mass effect as a good work of art, would that be too taboo? If I said I enjoyed the sounds and musics of mass effect, the rich visuals mass effect has, or the well written portions of it, would that be crossing the forbidden line within the internet on how you can compliment a game?

Has ME3 made the word "art" akin to a black spot on any and all video games now?

Well, it's not wrong to discuss games as art at all but in so doing you must be prepared for strong disagreement and to have your opinion challenged, just as I must in answering you.

ME as a whole had the potential to be real "written" art.  The visuals, well I can't say they achieved that-I've seen some amazing visuals in other less "artistic" leaning video games, including Uncharted games and Killzone 2 and 3, even CoD games had some even more amazing visuals than ME(3).

As a derivative product, I'd also challenge the concept of it being art and not just that ideas were derived from other subjects.  ME3 specifically took (at the end) whole pieces of other products out of context and then dumped them into the story largely unchanged.  You can borrow ideas from others, you can borrow pieces of content from others, but in order to create true art, you must make it your own-adapt it to fit your creation.

ME was art-the greatest art within it was in the writing of the characters and their interaction, the emotions we ended up feeling about pixels on a screen.  That's art at its best.  As flawed as many things were some of the stories within the games and the characters themselves were the best gaming's had to offer.  The endings smashed the idea of art into the dust.  As the one point where debate about art was the heaviest, the ending to ME3 is the least artistic thing about the games-yet it is clear it is something BW may have sort of considered art.  Originally they wanted ME3 to be more Star Wars-like, and to be a blockbuster in that vein, but I think they got worried about it ending simply with some "heroes save the day" type ending and they created an open-ended, speculation ending.  They then decided it fit their artistic vision though many thought they were blind (I still do).

In fact, a new category for gaming has been created because there are games out there that are more like fluid paintings, art in motion.

Computer graphics can be artistic and quite beautiful, but in a game with a story it takes more than good looks to be considered art.  And it takes more than saying something is art or implying it's intellectual (speculation mode)-art kind of speaks for itself.  Just like some movies can look really good, have a great cast, and then stink up the place with a bad story/script, and then end up not being considered artistic or big money makers.

A funny note-in the midst of the debate over the endings of ME3, one of the major US art museums (I think in New York but I could be wrong) had a video exhibit discussing this very thing as to whether video games were art.  And ME3 was being included in the exhibit that was asking the question (they didn't say ME3 or any video game was art).

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Makrys wrote...

 The best art of this gaming generation.

Dear Lord I hope you are Joking.

[Xamufam]

Me 3 doesnt have any Narrative Coherence at the end to make it art.

secondary belief

Inside it, what [the author] relates is 'true:' it accords
with the laws of that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as
it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises, the spell is broken; the
magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World
again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from the outside. J.R.R. Tolkien

Games are NOT art, they are PRODUCT that INCLUDES art. Just like a car, a
house, furniture, and almost every other product you pay money for and
then get annoyed with if it turns out to be less than you expected.
There are artistic elements involved to be sure, but in the end, they
are only product.


Not to mention that any claims to artistic integrity in ME3 were
compromised the second they made a single decision based on the
directives of the corporate masters. Like Multi-player, getting it out
by a certain date, including or not including material because it would
alienate/ reach out to certain communities, etc., etc. Decisions that
are made not out of artistic choice, but to sell a product.

Modifié par Troxa, 21 mars 2013 - 05:52 .

[Kabooooom]

It's art, by definition of the god damn word. Obviously.

What isn't obvious is what that entails. It is art, made for consumers, whom subsequently become invested in the story and make that art their own. This is different from a painting or a book, it is a modern creation. What obligations, if any, does the artist have to the fans?

If they are smart- they do it for the fans, as musicians should. If they have no business sense, they do it for themselves. The success of the Citadel dlc is proof positive that the former strategy works.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 21 mars 2013 - 05:41 .

[AHadley23]

Is a novel a work of art?
Is a sculpture a work of art?
Is a painting a work of art?
Is a film a work of art?
Is an album a work of art?

The answer to all five questions, technically, is yes. Whilst the philosophical definition of "art" is subjective, the technical/legal definition is not. Video game development combines all five of those disciplines and more, so arguing that video games are *not* a form of art is, as far as I'm concerned, very silly indeed.

Modifié par AHadley23, 21 mars 2013 - 05:43 .

[Kabooooom]

Pretty much what AHadley said. If you don't think it is art, you need to open a dictionary.

[ForThessia]

***

[archangel1996]

DinoSteve wrote...

Makrys wrote...

 The best art of this gaming generation.

Dear Lord I hope you are Joking.

I hope so too......

[Taboo]

A toilet hung on the wall is also art. Point being art is a very loose term.

[Applepie_Svk]

Bwahahaha art...

DLCiathan: There is no art, only the harvest.

[archangel1996]

Kabooooom wrote...

Pretty much what AHadley said. If you don't think it is art, you need to open a dictionary.

And you need to buy one

[Mcfly616]

Only to anti-enders on the BSN....

[archangel1996]

In a serious note, BW tryed tod efend themselves with the art crap, and there is people who bought that ****....good God.....who is worst?

[Redbelle]

ME3 is not art (more on that later)...... but, the trilogy and what BW did with their previous KOTOR game design, and the expansion of those game design theme's that later became Mass Effect, put all 3 into the 'classics' category I think.

But maybe I think ME isn't art because for me art is a passive experience. My heart doesn't skip a beat when I look at thing's categorised as art. I do get involved in my gaming, to the point where it can sometimes lead to tension, frustration, glee, satisfaction, etc... That kind of physical reaction is something I get from sport and exercise....... and <cough> prawn cocktails.

However, I do think that the ME trilogy is something that should be preserved for future gamer's to experience...... and that to me is an aspect of success. Keeping something stored for the future because it's influence goes beyond the norm. In which case there is an aspect of art to the trilogy, but I think the word art is getting in the way of some other descriptive word that's keep's escaping me and art is simply used as shorthand.

Modifié par Redbelle, 21 mars 2013 - 05:49 .

[archangel1996]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Only to anti-enders on the BSN....

I'm sorry but, unlike you, many "anti-enders" has some other games, better games than ME
If you play only COD i guess ME3 is art, well BO2 to me actually beat ME3 but....

[Kabooooom]

archangel1996 wrote...

Kabooooom wrote...

Pretty much what AHadley said. If you don't think it is art, you need to open a dictionary.

And you need to buy one

If you can provide a logical and coherent argument for why a video game does not fit the definition of art, when it very clearly does, then go ahead. But I haven't heard one thus far with every attempt I've seen being idiotic drivel from fanboys who are still butthurt by the 'artistic integrity' fiasco.

[archangel1996]

Redbelle wrote...
...

ME will never be a classic thanks to the ending
The best they can do now is squeeze everything out of it, at least since there is people to buy it

[BrookerT]

Among BSN it certainly has.

I think even Bioware is amazed about how much of a contentious issue Art is with the player base. They joke about it in Leviathan and Citadel. I never really got why some people on BSN use it to insult bioware, of all the sound bytes associated with mass effect 3, art was never really a thing said a lot. I'm pretty sure Artistic Integrity was only said once, but it's used as if it was a common defence by bioware or something.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I think all that art entails is that it can be appreciated on a slightly higher degree than other mediums, maybe be a source of inspiration for others to draw ideas from and form thoughts, opinions, morals, and many other things from it. In essence, art to me is something that inspires and promotes thoughts, and that there is art all around in us various forms and types, for various people.

That's just my own opinion though, art means different things for different people afterall.

[archangel1996]

Kabooooom wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

Kabooooom wrote...

Pretty much what AHadley said. If you don't think it is art, you need to open a dictionary.

And you need to buy one

If you can provide a logical and coherent argument for why a video game does not fit the definition of art, when it very clearly does, then go ahead. But I haven't heard one thus far with every attempt I've seen being idiotic drivel from fanboys who are still butthurt by the 'artistic integrity' fiasco.

See, you are confused and you don't know what you are saying
We are called "Haters goona hate lulz lulz"
I have to provide soemthing that you, and others, will anyway reject because you are fanboys?

Modifié par archangel1996, 21 mars 2013 - 05:52 .