232 réponses à ce sujet

[MadCat221]

Is "Art" a dirty word in video games now?

No.

Is "Art" a dirty word for attempting to deflect criticism for bad design?

Yes.

[Applepie_Svk]

Makrys wrote...

Who cares what other people think. Call it what you want. To me, it is absolutely art. The best art of this gaming generation.

ME3 and best of this generation ? 

Storytelling is maybe one of the oldest forms of art and Mass Effect 3 failing misserably. And what´s left from Mass Effect without narrative is shooty game mechanism, bang part of your crew and enviroment and music, the only thing which achieved to kept a quality was artist performance and music quality, otherwise Mass Effect 3 is bad - filled with bugs, core narrative in DLC and lot more...



fallacy

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 21 mars 2013 - 09:30 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Kanye West > the Beatles

Yeah. You heard me. Come at me, bro.

Drake > Kanye > Beatles. What ya got now homeslice? 

Plies > Drake > Kanye > Beatles.

Repent, the end is neigh!

[tamperous]

The meme of the prissy, pretentious and out of touch artist is much older than the internet. It's used every time a populist politician needs to get votes at the expense of moneyed opera goers in their opera glasses and fancy velvet jackets. When we make fun of the black turtle neck, skinny jean wearing poseurs drinking merlot at their little gallery opening. It's used by columnists when Gandhi beats E.T. for best picture.

Bottom line, PR people should have stopped Bioware from even mentioning the defense of art. Anyone could see what would happen as soon as they went down that path. It makes you wonder what kind of processes they have in Edmonton.

[Ridwan]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Kanye West > the Beatles

Yeah. You heard me. Come at me, bro.

Drake > Kanye > Beatles. What ya got now homeslice? 

Plies > Drake > Kanye > Beatles.

Repent, the end is neigh!

Kendrick Lamar > Plies > Drake > Kanye > Beatles.

Am I doing it right?

Random techno DJ > Any foppish pop star that's non stop in the media.

Except for Michael Jackson, he was the best eva!

[NeonFlux117]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Kanye West > the Beatles

Yeah. You heard me. Come at me, bro.

Drake > Kanye > Beatles. What ya got now homeslice? 

Plies > Drake > Kanye > Beatles.

Repent, the end is neigh!

Kendrick Lamar > Plies > Drake > Kanye > Beatles.

Am I doing it right?

Gucci Mane> Kendrick Lamar> Piles> Drake> Beatles> Fallout Boy. 

[Applepie_Svk]

BrookerT wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

When did Bioware actually use art as a defence for the endings, I really don't seem to remember.

leave it here.... for educational purpose.

I'm currently on a mobile here, does he actually use Art to defend the endings?

They used art as defense of game, that should be enough... I am missing Mona Lisa DLC meme... because that´s what ME3 achieved

[Da_old_Boss]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Has ME3 made the word "art" akin to a black spot on any and all video games now?

Yes.

[wright1978]

MadCat221 wrote...

Is "Art" a dirty word in video games now?

No.

Is "Art" a dirty word for attempting to deflect criticism for bad design?

Yes.

Indeed

[whalewhisker]

Games can be art, yes. I wouldn't say ME3 is though. Something like Journey and Bioshock would be, to me at least.

[dreamgazer]

It's amusing how this art conversation has blown so far out of proportion due to one statement.

[CroGamer002]

MadCat221 wrote...

Is "Art" a dirty word in video games now?

No.

Is "Art" a dirty word for attempting to deflect criticism for bad design?

Yes.

Pretty much.

[Animositisomina]

Art has always been a dirty word in gaming, just ask Roger Ebert.

[dreamgazer]

Animositisomina wrote...

Art has always been a dirty word in gaming, just ask Roger Ebert.

His argument against video games as art is hilarious, and hilariously shortsighted. 

[SurfaceBeneath]

People who use art as a "dirty word" are petty **** heads.

[chemiclord]

When I read Muzyka's letter that invoked "artistic integrity"; I personally didn't see it as an attempt to squash criticism, but as a response to fans who wanted a conventional victory or a successful refuse option with a high enough EMS. Bioware's team wanted to end the game on a moral judgment, which any "golden ending" would inherently defeat. It was also a response to fan demand that the Catalyst be removed. To Bioware, it was an important element to that final conundrum (whether fans agreed with that assessment or not is irrelevant).

And THAT is artistic integrity. It's not a shield from criticism, it's not a dismissal of personal taste. It's the right to compose a work the way you want to. No more, no less.

Of course, many fans TOOK it as an insult, and went out of their way to twist and cherry-pick past and future statements to mean further insult to justify their rage.

[frostajulie]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Say if I were to compliment mass effect as a good work of art, would that be too taboo? If I said I enjoyed the sounds and musics of mass effect, the rich visuals mass effect has, or the well written portions of it, would that be crossing the forbidden line within the internet on how you can compliment a game?

Has ME3 made the word "art" akin to a black spot on any and all video games now?

The problem is not the word the problem is the word art was used as an excuse that was thrown out to cover all the plot holes and lore inconsistencies and outright BAD writing decisions that made the ending such a suckfest.

I also believe that videogames are a form of art but that is not what they are meant to be they are sold as a product and meant to fullfill the function of a videogame which has always been a pleasurable pastime and for many a form of escapism and wish fulfillment.

The word art should not have been used as a flimsy shield for a ****ty ending the way it was.  So no, the word is not bad but now it is suspiciuous because of the precedent set by bioware.  Shame on them.

[Venom man4]

 Is info and a picture of ME2 in a art museum somewhere?

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think where this gets messy is whether the status of a video game or anything else as "art" (in this case a game designer, or group of game designers) means that the artist or the audience should have the final say on how the narrative takes shape. Ray Muzyka's statement about ME3 came down on the side of the artist, arguing that the game ended the way its creators wanted it to end and that therefore the ending should not just be discarded and rewritten altogether because fans didn't like it.

In most examples of what we *would* all agree to be art, I think that's exactly correct. Da Vinci didn't convene a focus group or a test audience to decide whether the Mona Lisa should be a blonde or a brunette. On the other hand, if something is clearly a product - say, a bottled beverage - and 99% of taste-testers say it makes them want to vomit, it would be crazy to ship it anyway on the grounds of the beverage-maker's "artistic integrity."

When push comes to shove, I'd have to say I would side with Muzyka in the case of ME3 and video games in general (which is not to say that game designers shouldn't listen to constructive criticism). Yes, games are products that we pay for and use for our own purposes, but so are movies, music, TV, books, etc., and games are closer to that end of the spectrum than they are to drinks, pieces of clothing, furniture, and the like. That's not to say that we have to *like* all "works of art" - I can sit down to read a novel and decide it's worthless crap, but I still wouldn't say that my opinion, even if widely shared, means that the novelist should be required to rewrite it if (s)he honestly believes it should remain unchanged.

[Morty Smith]

I think it´s a word as hollow and meaningless on it´s own as it was before.