232 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

[MegaSovereign]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

When I read Muzyka's letter that invoked "artistic integrity"; I personally didn't see it as an attempt to squash criticism, but as a response to fans who wanted a conventional victory or a successful refuse option with a high enough EMS. Bioware's team wanted to end the game on a moral judgment, which any "golden ending" would inherently defeat. It was also a response to fan demand that the Catalyst be removed. To Bioware, it was an important element to that final conundrum (whether fans agreed with that assessment or not is irrelevant).

And THAT is artistic integrity. It's not a shield from criticism, it's not a dismissal of personal taste. It's the right to compose a work the way you want to. No more, no less.

Of course, many fans TOOK it as an insult, and went out of their way to twist and cherry-pick past and future statements to mean further insult to justify their rage.

That is pig-headedness. That was destroying the ME universe because EA put the pedal to the metal on the rush out the door, and they were like WTF do we do now? Uh, let's see.... red, blue, and green all destroy the mass relays leaving the galaxy a wasteland and in a dark age for 10,000 years. Let EA learn about rushing a game now.

But then let us not forget that same Ray Muzyka saying that the same ending was "fun" http://youtu.be/igjfrbmCDlk?t=44m47s

I'm not cherry picking here. This is a fact. They honestly thought the original ending was fun. What were they smoking?  

They used it to deflect fan criticism. They didn't understand. They were living in a bubble. Art? I would call it the most disappointing ending I've ever played. There was no conundrum. Moral judgement? There was no moral judgement! Stupid Bos'htets!

Two options didn't complete the mission. One did. Bottom line. It took me less than 1/2 second to figure out that I needed to go to the red side. Then this piano music starts playing, I see Anderson, Thane, Liara, and these red explosions, Joker, Liara, and Javik get out of the Ship, and I get a 1/4 second gasp of air. Then an old man tells says "okay one more story". And I get a screen that says "Buy DLC".

I thought I did something wrong. I felt so empty. I felt cheated. I checked on the forum. I checked Youtube. All the endings were the same.

I blew up the galaxy at 3:20 am on March 22, 2012!

ART!!!!! It was so artistic!!!!

Off-topic but I love how all your posts have a narrative-style to them. lol

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 21 mars 2013 - 11:28 .

[archangel1996]

HiddenInWar wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Who cares what other people think. Call it what you want. To me, it is absolutely art. The best art of this gaming generation.

Agreed. 

:)<_<
They joking, r-r-r-right?

[archangel1996]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

When I read Muzyka's letter that invoked "artistic integrity"; I personally didn't see it as an attempt to squash criticism, but as a response to fans who wanted a conventional victory or a successful refuse option with a high enough EMS. Bioware's team wanted to end the game on a moral judgment, which any "golden ending" would inherently defeat. It was also a response to fan demand that the Catalyst be removed. To Bioware, it was an important element to that final conundrum (whether fans agreed with that assessment or not is irrelevant).

And THAT is artistic integrity. It's not a shield from criticism, it's not a dismissal of personal taste. It's the right to compose a work the way you want to. No more, no less.

Of course, many fans TOOK it as an insult, and went out of their way to twist and cherry-pick past and future statements to mean further insult to justify their rage.

That is pig-headedness. That was destroying the ME universe because EA put the pedal to the metal on the rush out the door, and they were like WTF do we do now? Uh, let's see.... red, blue, and green all destroy the mass relays leaving the galaxy a wasteland and in a dark age for 10,000 years. Let EA learn about rushing a game now.

But then let us not forget that same Ray Muzyka saying that the same ending was "fun" http://youtu.be/igjfrbmCDlk?t=44m47s

I'm not cherry picking here. This is a fact. They honestly thought the original ending was fun. What were they smoking?  

They used it to deflect fan criticism. They didn't understand. They were living in a bubble. Art? I would call it the most disappointing ending I've ever played. There was no conundrum. Moral judgement? There was no moral judgement! Stupid Bos'htets!

Two options didn't complete the mission. One did. Bottom line. It took me less than 1/2 second to figure out that I needed to go to the red side. Then this piano music starts playing, I see Anderson, Thane, Liara, and these red explosions, Joker, Liara, and Javik get out of the Ship, and I get a 1/4 second gasp of air. Then an old man tells says "okay one more story". And I get a screen that says "Buy DLC".

I thought I did something wrong. I felt so empty. I felt cheated. I checked on the forum. I checked Youtube. All the endings were the same.

I blew up the galaxy at 3:20 am on March 22, 2012!

ART!!!!! It was so artistic!!!!

Yeah, that day was my fist day here in BSN, the good ol' fleet, when we all tought at BW were genius, the stage of denial i guess, good times, good times

Modifié par archangel1996, 21 mars 2013 - 11:31 .

[spirosz]

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

[Pepper4]

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

Is art created only for artists? Are artists alone worty of judging art?

Modifié par Pepper4, 21 mars 2013 - 11:32 .

[archangel1996]

Pepper4 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

Is art created only for artists? Are artists alone worty of judging art?

If you ask BW OH HELL YES

[Morty Smith]

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

[spirosz]

Pepper4 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

Is art created only for artists? Are artists alone worty of judging art?

No, but certain types of criticism needs certain background before people start spewing things out of their mouth without realizing what goes behind that art.  

Modifié par spirosz, 21 mars 2013 - 11:34 .

[MegaSovereign]

I passed my Art class with a C+. So **** yes I have every right to judge.

[Pepper4]

spirosz wrote...

Pepper4 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

Is art created only for artists? Are artists alone worty of judging art?

No, but certain types of criticism needs certain background before people start spewing things out of their mouth without realizing what goes behind that art.  

I will try to take this discussion elsewhere.

Do you believe video games can be art?

[spirosz]

Of course, I wasn't trying to argue against it, I just don't like when people give specific forms of criticism without knowing or experiencing what goes behind it.

Every form of media is an art form in my mind. Doesn't have to be restricted to "artists."

[NeonFlux117]

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Do you know how to do anything that I mentioned though?

But is it relevant to citicise? I mean it would be nice if I could go up to my client or his target market and tell them:

"Sorry, but do you even typography?"

World would be a better place.

Do you even lift? 

You came here to face artistic integrity and instead you found a God!!!!!

[spirosz]

Oh god, where's a spiderman meme when you need one.

[spirosz]

[Pepper4]

spirosz wrote...

Of course, I wasn't trying to argue against it, I just don't like when people give specific forms of criticism without knowing or experiencing what goes behind it.

Every form of media is an art form in my mind. Doesn't have to be restricted to "artists."

So your argument is, then, that I am not qualified to say that Mass Effect is good art? Ok.

If I go on with this idea, it means that I am not qualified to judge any kind of art, since I have little to no artistic background.

If Bach didn't compose a single piece in his lifetime, would he have been qualified to pass his judgement on piano sonates? (I am pretty sure there is something wrong with the grammar in this sentence)

[o Ventus]

"Art" isn't a dirty word. Not at all. In fact, it can be a great compliment.

It's just when the producers of said "art" use the word as some sort of magical anti-criticism shield, when what they out out is just bad.

[spirosz]

I wasn't trying to be specific towards you, sorry. And judging and criticizing are two different things when it comes this, in my opinion.

[Pepper4]

spirosz wrote...

I wasn't trying to be specific towards you, sorry. And judging and criticizing are two different things when it comes this, in my opinion.

I didn't take any offence, nor did I take anything personally. I was talking about myself as a person without an artistic background.

ok, then. 
Can a movie critic with no background in making movies be a good movie critic?

[spirosz]

Pepper4 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

I wasn't trying to be specific towards you, sorry. And judging and criticizing are two different things when it comes this, in my opinion.

I didn't take any offence, nor did I take anything personally. I was talking about myself as a person without an artistic background.

ok, then. 
Can a movie critic with no background in making movies be a good movie critic?

Well, most film critics take film classes specifically and become immersed in learning and knowing everything there is to know about movies, the terminology, the attitude and mindset going into certain types of films, etc.  I'm assuming most would like to experience this as well, with either their own little projects that make them dive deeper in the whole movie life experience, which well help with their critiquing.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Off-topic but I love how all your posts have a narrative-style to them. lol

I do my best.

Love your new avatar. Poor little girl.

[chemiclord]

spirosz wrote...

Well, most film critics take film classes specifically and become immersed in learning and knowing everything there is to know about movies, the terminology, the attitude and mindset going into certain types of films, etc.  I'm assuming most would like to experience this as well, with either their own little projects that make them dive deeper in the whole movie life experience, which well help with their critiquing.

If you don't like something... you don't like something.

Your level of education in the field in that regard is irrelevant.  It may help you understand why something is the way it is; but if it doesn't do it for you, it doesn't work.

Criticizing something is perfectly legit, regardless of how well you "know" the medium.

[chemiclord]

Doublepost.

Modifié par chemiclord, 22 mars 2013 - 12:05 .

[spirosz]

chemiclord wrote...
Criticizing something is perfectly legit, regardless of how well you "know" the medium.

I disagree tbh. 

[Dendio1]

Art is not a dirty word. People just recited the same slogans of hate against mass effect equating art with turd. That is low level intellect simply trying to make the devs feel bad.

Art is a great thing to have in games. I love arty games from bastion to braid to mass effect. One of the reasons I dislike omega dlc is because it felt very generic...lots of shooting, less unique arty things compared to leviathan