175 réponses à ce sujet

[january42]

What game is this based on anyway?  I'm not that familiar with them, so I don't recognize it.  Pretty much every ME PVP mode I've seen turns out to be another game with ME trim.

To balance PvP you basicly need to remove everything that make ME Mp interesting. It's possible to balance it, but It would lose what is fun, interesting and unique about th game.

For one thing, I'm not sure why you would play anything more than a gun class. The "gathering power or programming powers" thing just seems like it would destroy all caster classes, esp the "lose all progress if hit".

[SSuicideKKing666]

kiltysue wrote...

Did not even consider reading the OP.

If I want pvp, there are scads of games built
with that focus available. CoD, Halo series,
BF3, etc... Some might even include games
with something similar to WoW arena.

That kind of environment is so pervasive, that
even here, in a decidedly cooperative game. Even
in me3, you get people that have fits over "kill"
stealers.

Try out any of a ton of other games for pvp, please
keep mass effect 3 multiplayer focused on cooperative
play.

This game is focused on cooperative play?

[kiltysue]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

This game is focused on cooperative play?

In the spirit of the awesome gifs in this thread...

Didn't read!

[SSuicideKKing666]

kiltysue wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

This game is focused on cooperative play?

In the spirit of the awesome gifs in this thread...

Didn't read!

I mean that, this game's multiplayer is just as focused on cooperative play as BF3 or PS2.
I'd love to see a PvP for the MP because I'd love to see the skill cap for the game brought up, right now this game has almost no skill cap, did this guys post display a good PvP system?  Not really, but it is possible and all it would take to make it work is...work!

[Theghostof_timmy]

january42 wrote...

What game is this based on anyway?  I'm not that familiar with them, so I don't recognize it.  Pretty much every ME PVP mode I've seen turns out to be another game with ME trim.

To balance PvP you basicly need to remove everything that make ME Mp interesting. It's possible to balance it, but It would lose what is fun, interesting and unique about th game.

For one thing, I'm not sure why you would play anything more than a gun class. The "gathering power or programming powers" thing just seems like it would destroy all caster classes, esp the "lose all progress if hit".

It's not based on anything, other than the general framework of a 3rd person shooter. The idea is that you would spend most of your time in cover, along with your teammates. Biotics and tech users would be protected from frontal attacks by the cover, and flanking attacks by teammates. Biotics excel at flushing enemies out of cover, tech users are debuffers and defensive specialists, and combat soldiers are for cutting down exposed and weakened enemies, and protecting the more vulnerable teammates. If anything, this could be compared more to Ghost Recon.

[RaptorSolutions]

herculeswill22 wrote...

january42 wrote...

What game is this based on anyway?  I'm not that familiar with them, so I don't recognize it.  Pretty much every ME PVP mode I've seen turns out to be another game with ME trim.

To balance PvP you basicly need to remove everything that make ME Mp interesting. It's possible to balance it, but It would lose what is fun, interesting and unique about th game.

For one thing, I'm not sure why you would play anything more than a gun class. The "gathering power or programming powers" thing just seems like it would destroy all caster classes, esp the "lose all progress if hit".

It's not based on anything, other than the general framework of a 3rd person shooter. The idea is that you would spend most of your time in cover, along with your teammates. Biotics and tech users would be protected from frontal attacks by the cover, and flanking attacks by teammates. Biotics excel at flushing enemies out of cover, tech users are debuffers and defensive specialists, and combat soldiers are for cutting down exposed and weakened enemies, and protecting the more vulnerable teammates. If anything, this could be compared more to Ghost Recon.

Although chances are the weapon guys will sweep in on the power users position, spray fire to dirsupt all their charging, then the shotguns will come in to pick them off at close range.

[Cyonan]

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

[StrawHatMoose]

This is one of the worst ideas for PvP. And I would throw this out if the airlock.
What Cyonan said.

Modifié par StrawHatMoose, 22 mars 2013 - 05:34 .

[SSuicideKKing666]

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

So you're against reworking the game?  But they have done that with ever game and changed how pretty much everything in the previous game worked.  The keep reinventing their wheel and honestly the best one they had was in ME1.

[HolyAvenger]

herculeswill22 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Awful. You've basically stripped all the space magic out of it. Singularity is about lifting enemies and throwing them around like a biotic god, not some crappy DoT.


0/10, would not bang.

You targeted singularity as the main reason you don't like it? Really? Think about it, man. With how it is now, you throw the singularity into a group and drop their shields, then suddenly you can kill all of them extremely easily. OP much?

To those saying "no those powers are bad and you should feel bad" (or at least thinking it) you will notice that I put "etc." after most of them. It is not a complete list, they are examples.

 

It was one example. You've killed most of the powers like that. And yes I want to shoot into a group of enemies and ragdoll them all. That's what the power does. Which is why it should stay a PvE game and not become a PvP one.

Because I don't know what game you've constructed in the OP, but it ain't a Mass Effect one. 

[Zkyire]

Would love PvP in future Mass Effect games.

But not if it requires the removal or severe nerfing of powers. Do that and you basically ruin the classes.

[Theghostof_timmy]

RaptorSolutions wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

january42 wrote...

What game is this based on anyway?  I'm not that familiar with them, so I don't recognize it.  Pretty much every ME PVP mode I've seen turns out to be another game with ME trim.

To balance PvP you basicly need to remove everything that make ME Mp interesting. It's possible to balance it, but It would lose what is fun, interesting and unique about th game.

For one thing, I'm not sure why you would play anything more than a gun class. The "gathering power or programming powers" thing just seems like it would destroy all caster classes, esp the "lose all progress if hit".

It's not based on anything, other than the general framework of a 3rd person shooter. The idea is that you would spend most of your time in cover, along with your teammates. Biotics and tech users would be protected from frontal attacks by the cover, and flanking attacks by teammates. Biotics excel at flushing enemies out of cover, tech users are debuffers and defensive specialists, and combat soldiers are for cutting down exposed and weakened enemies, and protecting the more vulnerable teammates. If anything, this could be compared more to Ghost Recon.

Although chances are the weapon guys will sweep in on the power users position, spray fire to dirsupt all their charging, then the shotguns will come in to pick them off at close range.

They won't be able to hit unless they're literally standing right in front of your cover or from behind. More likely your weapons users will mow them down before they get that close. There are lots of strategies good players could use to stop the rush: keeping a programmed power in reserve on a tech class, firing off a weaker attack with a biotic just to stop their momentum, giving your team time to stop them. All classes will still have weapons, as well, and out of cover you are quite vulnerable, soldiers and armored sentinels just somewhat less so. I would actually expect soldiers to be the least effective of all, really. It's not a run-and-gun thing, it would need a lot more team coordination than a regular shooter, again take a look at ghost recon.

[DHKany]

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

[SSuicideKKing666]

DHKany wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

Have you ever played WoW?  It has both of those things and its PvP works wonderfully.

[solsphinx]

I can see it now. Entire teams of turian soldiers giving each other damage bonuses while using marksman.

[DHKany]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

Have you ever played WoW?  It has both of those things and its PvP works wonderfully.

I never knew WoW had high powered sniper Rifles which have up to 1 meter pentration distance and in some cases wall hacks scopes, not to mention 1 Hit KO abilities. 

I never knew WoW had One HIt Kill weapons period. 

Why the hell are we comparing this to WoW again? ME3 is NOTHING like it AT ALL.

The closes PvP game we can get to is probably Gears of War and even that's still a far cry from ME3. 

Modifié par DHKany, 22 mars 2013 - 05:48 .

[spettro_sannita]

I like the idea, BSNers don't like PvP because are usually scared ******

[Theghostof_timmy]

The general theme I'm getting here is "I won't play it unless it's CoD, but if it's CoD I won't play it."

@Zkyire I'll pick you because you're the closest. You see this as "nerfing" and "removal". That's like saying the sentry turret in Halo 4 is a nerf to the one in ME3. It's not, they're two different things with different purposes. What I'm doing is taking a general mass effect framework, and making something new out of it. For example, singularity is not just a way worse version of the current singularity, it's a new ability with the same name and vaguely similar effects.Gamers are very resistant to new ideas, yet complain games get stale when they come out with the same thing over and over.

[Cyonan]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

So you're against reworking the game? But they have done that with ever game and changed how pretty much everything in the previous game worked. The keep reinventing their wheel and honestly the best one they had was in ME1.

I'm against a reworking of the game that only serves to refocus the entire game around an idea that the entire trilogy had nothing to do with. Refining and polishing existing systems that worked well is to be expected, and reworking a system that you didn't feel was working in the first place to try to achieve what you were going for is fine. Adding in new systems is also good, provided they serve a purpose.

Honestly if we're talking about the game from a purely gameplay perspective(this means not considering story, dialogue, graphics, etc.), then I think Mass Effect 3 is significantly better than Mass Effect 1. This is mainly because I didn't care much for the combat in Mass Effect 1.

[Theghostof_timmy]

DHKany wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

You must not have played Halo, then. It's not invisibility, you're just more difficult to see. Even in Halo 4, where Active Camo is the best it's ever been, you can see cloaked people if you're paying attention. Stasis BUBBLE is overpowered in PVP, absolutely, which is why it wouldn't exist. I don't think a single target, cover blocked, and duration-of-charge stasis would be overpowered though. That said, I would more likely remove it, because lift accomplishes what niche it would have.

[UnknownMercenary]

Your ideas suck. It should be done Left 4 Dead style. Two squads of 4. One squad plays like how ME3 is now. They have limited revives from medigel, and must survive. The second squad controls boss units who can infinitely respawn, and they are tougher than in ME3. Maybe have one player on the opposing squad control and direct enemy mook spawns as well.

[SSuicideKKing666]

DHKany wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

Have you ever played WoW?  It has both of those things and its PvP works wonderfully.

I never knew WoW had high powered sniper Rifles which have up to 1 meter pentration distance and in some cases wall hacks scopes, not to mention 1 Hit KO abilities. 

I never knew WoW had One HIt Kill weapons period. 

Why the hell are we comparing this to WoW again? ME3 is NOTHING like it AT ALL.

The closes PvP game we can get to is probably Gears of War and even that's still a far cry from ME3. 

WoW does have high powered sniper rifles and one shots, just google one shot macro theres a ton of them.  And actually the two games have a lot in common.  Both have space magic, both are about toppling an old evil alien race that actually birthed the current spiecies.  And The reason I was making the comparison is because if they were to do PvP, WoW's arena is probably the best comparision for it, because no one wants a full on TDM respawn game like GoW or CoD, they would want a composition based squad battle, like WoW's arena teams.  And since WoW has many many CC abilities and still manages to balance between extremely squishy and tanky classes and the hundereds of abilites available across all the classes and specs, I would say there are plenty of good solutions to draw from.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Cyonan wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

So you're against reworking the game? But they have done that with ever game and changed how pretty much everything in the previous game worked. The keep reinventing their wheel and honestly the best one they had was in ME1.

I'm against a reworking of the game that only serves to refocus the entire game around an idea that the entire trilogy had nothing to do with. Refining and polishing existing systems that worked well is to be expected, and reworking a system that you didn't feel was working in the first place to try to achieve what you were going for is fine. Adding in new systems is also good, provided they serve a purpose.

Honestly if we're talking about the game from a purely gameplay perspective(this means not considering story, dialogue, graphics, etc.), then I think Mass Effect 3 is significantly better than Mass Effect 1. This is mainly because I didn't care much for the combat in Mass Effect 1.

I agree with you that ME3 is definitely better than ME1. However, I disagree with this being a "reworking" because PVP doesn't exist in mass effect right now. You can't "refine and polish" something that doesn't exist. Most people agree PVP is untenable with the current system mass effect runs with. I am not saying this is how all mass effect should be, I am saying that if there is PVP, it would have to be significantly different than anything around now.

[Cyonan]

herculeswill22 wrote...
I agree with you that ME3 is definitely better than ME1. However, I disagree with this being a "reworking" because PVP doesn't exist in mass effect right now. You can't "refine and polish" something that doesn't exist. Most people agree PVP is untenable with the current system mass effect runs with. I am not saying this is how all mass effect should be, I am saying that if there is PVP, it would have to be significantly different than anything around now.

The thing is that you're completely reworking the skill system so that it supports PvP that has some semblance of balance. This is a much bigger reworking than the system got in ME2, which was more of a heavy refining.

Most of us know the game would need to be significantly different, we're saying that it shouldn't be done for the sake of PvP.

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...
Have you ever played WoW?  It has both of those things and its PvP works wonderfully.

Not really from a balance perspective.

[DHKany]

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

SSuicideKKing666 wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

As I've said in many of these threads, very few of us are saying that PvP can't be done.

We're saying that it shouldn't be done because you would need to revamp the game completely, which is exactly what you've done here.

There's no point in shoehorning in a game mode that requires you build your entire game around it, when the game didn't need that game mode in the first place.

I would rather them just polish and refine the wheel they have rather than trying to reinvent it.

The very existence of Stasis and an invisibility Cloak make PvP nigh impossible. 

Have you ever played WoW?  It has both of those things and its PvP works wonderfully.

I never knew WoW had high powered sniper Rifles which have up to 1 meter pentration distance and in some cases wall hacks scopes, not to mention 1 Hit KO abilities. 

I never knew WoW had One HIt Kill weapons period. 

Why the hell are we comparing this to WoW again? ME3 is NOTHING like it AT ALL.

The closes PvP game we can get to is probably Gears of War and even that's still a far cry from ME3. 

WoW does have high powered sniper rifles and one shots, just google one shot macro theres a ton of them.  And actually the two games have a lot in common.  Both have space magic, both are about toppling an old evil alien race that actually birthed the current spiecies.  And The reason I was making the comparison is because if they were to do PvP, WoW's arena is probably the best comparision for it, because no one wants a full on TDM respawn game like GoW or CoD, they would want a composition based squad battle, like WoW's arena teams.  And since WoW has many many CC abilities and still manages to balance between extremely squishy and tanky classes and the hundereds of abilites available across all the classes and specs, I would say there are plenty of good solutions to draw from.

The thing is Mass Effect never had a PvP mentality, and even the powers I mentioned are just a few of the bunch that would need COMPLETE reworking or severe nerfs to even be considered for a PvP environment. 

Also I don't cont macros. Feel a bit to cheap IMO just in the same way that I frown upon the Mattock Macros people use. 

Sorry if i sounded hostile/dumb its just that this has been discussed to death.