175 réponses à ce sujet

[ryanshowseason3]

herculeswill22 wrote...

@ryanshowseason Not really. To do what you've suggested, you would need to do several things in a row, and a number of conditions would need to be present.
1. You would have to put on the pure engineer and biotic implants, with the right powers selected.
2. You need to program your overload. Reminder, if you are hit at all while it's charging, you have to restart. There will be a visual cue for when biotics or tech abilities are charging. But let's assume you run away beforehand and charge up overload in safety.
3. You must have them targeted. When I say, "through cover" I don't mean "across the map and through walls". I mean if they are behind short walls and if you can see them around big boxes or walls. It's not an iWin power by far.
4. You overload their shields, and switch to your biotic set. You then have to begin charging up your dark energy for lift. Again, if you are hit at any time during the charge process, or indeed any time before releasing the power with biotics, you must restart. Lift is going to have a fairly long charge time, considering I have it as a top tier power. And in order for it to affect a target, THEIR SHIELDS MUST REMAIN DOWN. Overload doesn't blow up their shields forever, it drops them and they recharge regularly like anytime your shields go down. Without somebody keeping their shields down, it is HIGHLY unlikely you will be able to get lift off in time to affect them.

Tl;DR What you say is nigh impossible without team support to keep an enemy's shields down after your overload, and in that case, why not just have a biotic and an engineer working together?

All this charging and what not is not what you said. This all may be in your head, but it isn't in anyone elses. Here is what I read verbatim

herculeswill22 wrote...
Lift: An unprotected foe
is lifted in the air and exposed to additional attacks. Works through
cover, but ONLY on unprotected targets.
Overload: Instantly drops a target's shields, no matter how strong they are. Penetrates cover. Only affects shields/barriers.
Human:
Adaptability:
The genetic diversity and adaptability of the human race allows them to
switch between implants on the fly. On the loadout screen, when human is
chosen, a second loadout will be available. This can be switched to in
mid battle.
No implant restrictions.

Now you tell me how I'm supposed to know these abilities have casting times or interruptions or that shields will be able to start recharging in the space of the cast time. You never said any of this so why would I assume it?

Also if shields will start recharging within the space of a lift cast time what is the point of lift? You literally need a teamate to distract to make any use out of it if
A. their shields will start recharging
B. you can be interrupted by being shot

Cast times with interruptions sounds frustrating. Why would I not just shoot my gun at this point and just interrupt every else all the time?

Also having a combo like this between two people is not the best idea for non frustrating gameplay. Its halo and the plasma pistol -> head shot combo all over again. Its no fun to be instakilled whenever you go around a corner.

[BridgeBurner]

I completely want PVP in the next mass effect game.

Just so all the lore / PVE only noobs would cry about competitive online play being added.

As for the idiots crying about COD...

There are a myriad of other games which involve pvp which are far superior to the moronic trash that call of duty is. Many before, and after which are far better examples of PVP than stupid COD. 

What makes you think PVP automatically means call of duty? Could it possibly be because you've never played anything PVP related which isn't COD?

Modifié par Annomander, 22 mars 2013 - 08:20 .

[GreatBlueHeron]

No. No. No no no, no no no. No. And more no.

Play COD if you want PVP.

[oknenah]

xtorma wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

oknenah wrote...

I made a serious attempt at reading this but could not go any farther when I read biotic combos removed.

I've said it earlier, they would serve no purpose in a PVP game. Can people honestly not imagine a game without them? There were only 1 or 2 biotic combos in ME2, all of them involving warp, and none in ME1.

You are going backward though. Combos make the game much more interesting. Powers woking as they do make the game much more interesting. I mean if every power just staggers, why do we need a huge list of them. Throw is just that, it hurls unprotected mobs across the map, damaging them with the force.  

Mass effect fields do certian things to people and objects in the mass effect universe. If you change how mass effect fields work you change the mass effect universe. You basically want to rewrite the physics of the mass effect universe so you can pvp. If you can't see the problem with this, it can't be explained to you. 

I guess you could always JJ Abrams it though.

I agree with this. I feel like combos is how the game evolved and taking them away would just undo all the hard work Bioware has put into their combo system. I like playing Mass Effect because of its unique mechanics that other games do not have. If we take that away it would be like any other generec CoD shooter that has become old and boring.

[Theghostof_timmy]

ryanshowseason3 wrote...


Now you tell me how I'm supposed to know these abilities have casting times or interruptions or that shields will be able to start recharging in the space of the cast time. You never said any of this so why would I assume it?

Also if shields will start recharging within the space of a lift cast time what is the point of lift? You literally need a teamate to distract to make any use out of it if
A. their shields will start recharging
B. you can be interrupted by being shot

Cast times with interruptions sounds frustrating. Why would I not just shoot my gun at this point and just interrupt every else all the time?

Also having a combo like this between two people is not the best idea for non frustrating gameplay. Its halo and the plasma pistol -> head shot combo all over again. Its no fun to be instakilled whenever you go around a corner.

You seem to think I was being condescending. I regret that you got that impression, because that's not how it was at all.

Anyways, there are a lot of details that I'm not qualified to iron out, and that should be left to developers. They have the opportunity to test and modify things, while I don't. The stuff I can answer:

Yes, having to have good communication and synergy with teammates is exactly what I was looking for. Lift has a purpose because if you charged up Lift, then when you were charged had a teammate hit them with overload, you could immediately fire off your lift, and the target would be a sitting (floating) duck. In this sort of way, I would have teamwork be more productive than lone wolfing, unlike how it is now.

You can't "shoot your gun and interrupt everyone else all the time" because they will be in cover. Without penetration, weapons have no way to hit a protected enemy. Dieing every time you turn a corner is unlikely because, you know, this is a third person shooter, and you can just look.

[Cyonan]

herculeswill22 wrote...
That's the point I've been trying to make though, ideally you won't be spending much time in the open where you are easily staggered. Most if not all powers will be unable to stagger in cover. Pacing is entirely relevant, since in a mmo type game like wow where you just stand still and hack at each other with abilities and whatnot battles can last a full minute. A few seconds of stun is nothing. In a shooter, a second of stun can mean instant death. On the other hand, being staggered 1 second out of 3 still leaves you 2 seconds to get closer and attack, and a single landed hit will prevent the throw user from charging throw. Stagger in my idea will be a delaying tactic, not a war winner.

The thing is that in WoW of that full minute I'm not typically staggered or stunned for 20 seconds of it(unless I'm outnumbered but then I'm probably not going to survive the full minute anyway). There was a time when Rogues could do that to you and they nerfed that into the ground because nobody but Rogues liked it.

In a game where you can die as quickly as you do in Mass Effect, a 1-2 second stagger certainly can be a battle winner. In PvP you want to be very careful about handing out CC abilities, especially if they aren't on lengthy cooldowns.

It's actually less of a concern in MMOs like WoW because I know my Paladin's heavy armour is going to keep him alive while a Rogue has me stunned for a few seconds, or if it's an emergency everybody has a trinket on a 2 minute cooldown that lets you break all CC/slowing effects.

Modifié par Cyonan, 22 mars 2013 - 08:26 .

[Omega_Spectre]

Yeah, no thanks. Keep your filthy MLG, Super-L33t, CoD crap away from Mass Effect.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Cyonan wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...
That's the point I've been trying to make though, ideally you won't be spending much time in the open where you are easily staggered. Most if not all powers will be unable to stagger in cover. Pacing is entirely relevant, since in a mmo type game like wow where you just stand still and hack at each other with abilities and whatnot battles can last a full minute. A few seconds of stun is nothing. In a shooter, a second of stun can mean instant death. On the other hand, being staggered 1 second out of 3 still leaves you 2 seconds to get closer and attack, and a single landed hit will prevent the throw user from charging throw. Stagger in my idea will be a delaying tactic, not a war winner.

The thing is that in WoW of that full minute I'm not typically staggered or stunned for 20 seconds of it(unless I'm outnumbered but then I'm probably not going to survive the full minute anyway). There was a time when Rogues could do that you do and they nerfed that into the ground because nobody but Rogues liked it.

In a game where you can die as quickly as you do in Mass Effect, a 1-2 second stagger certainly can be a battle winner. In PvP you want to be very careful about handing out CC abilities, especially if they aren't on lengthy cooldowns.

It's actually less of a concern in MMOs like WoW because I know my Paladin's heavy armour is going to keep him alive while a Rogue has me stunned for a few seconds, or if it's an emergency everybody has a trinket on a 2 minute cooldown that lets you break all CC/slowing effects.

Just because staggering exists doesn't mean you spend all of your time staggered. Either way, if it does turn out that the staggering is too much, just like the rogue patch it can be fixed fairly easily.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I think I've accrued enough "oh no PVP didn't read blarg blarg" posts for another I MOCK YOU.

[TeamLexana]

I appreciate how much time and thought that went into the OP but I still gotta HELL NO.

[Sundance31us]

PvP for the ME universe takes place on BSN.

[Omega_Spectre]

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

[Cyonan]

herculeswill22 wrote...

Just because staggering exists doesn't mean you spend all of your time staggered. Either way, if it does turn out that the staggering is too much, just like the rogue patch it can be fixed fairly easily.

Every 3 seconds is a lot of stagger, and we have a lot of abilities that can stagger even if you remove the stagger from a couple of them.

The Rogue thing required multiple expansions to be fixed =P

[Stinja]

Just too watered down from Mass Effect. I'd go the absolute oppersite.

Give massive customisation to the player: you want a tank? You make a Krogan with max physical stats, DR, health regen etc. you could literally stand in front of someone with a heavy pistol and they could not kill you. Headshot - headshot - headshot, you'd laugh it off.

On the upside, no mental stats or biotic protection, and an max adept could cast a single lift, then throw you off the map for an instant kill. They would be very squishy, and a double tap to the body would put them down.

So the game would become one of tactics and movement, can the krogan close under cover, while trying to get a shot off? Can the adept get that winning singularity?

If it was two krogan against each other it be more of a snooty-bashfest. Ditto adept vs adept.
Most people would not be extremes, with some gun or Botic or tech power.

IMO a really unbalanced scheme, where everything is overpowered, would be much more fun.

Oh, and no respawns. You die, you spectate until everyone finished the match. SOCOM or counterstrike with space magic if you will.
Who's that sound first poster dude?

Modifié par Stinja, 22 mars 2013 - 08:51 .

[Omega_Spectre]

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

And you're an even bigger fool if you think this won't turn into a Mass Effect version of CoD. Another mindless PVP shooter filled with campers, map glitchers, etc. And the only thing the "Epic Pwnrs" care about is their K/D ratio.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Cyonan wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Just because staggering exists doesn't mean you spend all of your time staggered. Either way, if it does turn out that the staggering is too much, just like the rogue patch it can be fixed fairly easily.

Every 3 seconds is a lot of stagger, and we have a lot of abilities that can stagger even if you remove the stagger from a couple of them.

The Rogue thing required multiple expansions to be fixed =P

Of the sample abilities I listed, only a couple have stagger attached to them, and they are weak, low-to-no damage abilities. It's not a complete list by any means, but only a couple stagger powers are needed, so other powers would have other effects and no stagger. There's little reason to import all ME3 powers into the next game, many of them would be discarded completely for PVP.

[Diasasterman12]

This just reminds me of gears of war for some reason..

[Theghostof_timmy]

Omega_Spectre wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

And you're an even bigger fool if you think this won't turn into a Mass Effect version of CoD. Another mindless PVP shooter filled with campers, map glitchers, etc. And the only thing the "Epic Pwnrs" care about is their K/D ratio.

I'll survive being called a fool by you.

"who is more of a fool, a fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Diasasterman12]

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

And you're an even bigger fool if you think this won't turn into a Mass Effect version of CoD. Another mindless PVP shooter filled with campers, map glitchers, etc. And the only thing the "Epic Pwnrs" care about is their K/D ratio.

I'll survive being called a fool by you.

"who is more of a fool, a fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

 that was really really bad..

[Theghostof_timmy]

Diasasterman12 wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

And you're an even bigger fool if you think this won't turn into a Mass Effect version of CoD. Another mindless PVP shooter filled with campers, map glitchers, etc. And the only thing the "Epic Pwnrs" care about is their K/D ratio.

I'll survive being called a fool by you.

"who is more of a fool, a fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

 that was really really awesome..!

Fixed

[Diasasterman12]

herculeswill22 wrote...

Diasasterman12 wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...

Omega_Spectre wrote...

Yeah, I read it. Still think it's wack. Blarg, blarg, mock, mock.

You weren't reading very closely if you still think it's CoD. You're entitled to like or not like it, but making unsubstantiated claims just makes you look like a fool.

And you're an even bigger fool if you think this won't turn into a Mass Effect version of CoD. Another mindless PVP shooter filled with campers, map glitchers, etc. And the only thing the "Epic Pwnrs" care about is their K/D ratio.

I'll survive being called a fool by you.

"who is more of a fool, a fool or the fool who follows him?" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

 that was really really awesome..!

Fixed

Oh no, i meant what i said...it was really really bad...but on topic...THIS idea is really really bad. 

[Cyonan]

herculeswill22 wrote...
Of the sample abilities I listed, only a couple have stagger attached to them, and they are weak, low-to-no damage abilities. It's not a complete list by any means, but only a couple stagger powers are needed, so other powers would have other effects and no stagger. There's little reason to import all ME3 powers into the next game, many of them would be discarded completely for PVP.

So many things have stagger that you'll have rebuilt most of the game if they don't have stagger or aren't included.

Which was just my original argument against it. You're cutting out way too much of the game to make room for just one game mode.

[Stinja]

No comment on my post above?

Fine. "Did not read"ing this anymore.

[DHKany]

Cyonan wrote...

herculeswill22 wrote...
Of the sample abilities I listed, only a couple have stagger attached to them, and they are weak, low-to-no damage abilities. It's not a complete list by any means, but only a couple stagger powers are needed, so other powers would have other effects and no stagger. There's little reason to import all ME3 powers into the next game, many of them would be discarded completely for PVP.

So many things have stagger that you'll have rebuilt most of the game if they don't have stagger or aren't included.

Which was just my original argument against it. You're cutting out way too much of the game to make room for just one game mode.

Just imagine Area Reave in PvP.......