162 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Interesting and unfortunate (found his post). I knew it was super close I wondered if there was a logic error.

Unfortunate, but completely intentional. So obviously someone didn't think so at the time.

It really doesn't help that at least one other developer has tried to pass it off as a bug. And that was a post on the forum - it wasn't like they were backed into a corner at a convention or something.

Modifié par David7204, 23 mars 2013 - 07:51 .

[AlanC9]

I noticed some ME devs and staff seemed to be either genuinely confused about this issue or doing a great imitation of being confused. The story broke back when some of them would drop by the boards or at least answer PMs. IIRC a QA guy stated that he had been able to get all endings without MP. With some version that I guess wasn't the released version.

Anyway, this is another thing I don't imagine Bio's going to do again.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 mars 2013 - 08:10 .

[Xewaka]

Why would they bother with microtransactions when they already have the cheap-to-produce weapon and armor packs? They serve the exact same purpose.

[MissOuJ]

I don't mind microtransactions as long as they are 110% optional and don't add anything to the game a player can't achieve for free if they put enough hours into the game. Case in point: ME3 MP. Also, I'm pretty sure the popularity of microtransactions was a big reason why all the ME3 MP DLC's were free (no need to charge anything for them since MTA's covered the costs of making the DLC's and then some), so maybe they're not that bad after all... Of course the 200 MP horse armours are a compeltely different can of worms

Modifié par MissOuJ, 23 mars 2013 - 09:56 .

[Allan Schumacher]

AlanC9 wrote...

I noticed some ME devs and staff seemed to be either genuinely confused about this issue or doing a great imitation of being confused. The story broke back when some of them would drop by the boards or at least answer PMs. IIRC a QA guy stated that he had been able to get all endings without MP. With some version that I guess wasn't the released version.

Yeah I had heard conflicting data (nothing internal, just the same musings on the interwebs) that there was some communication that it was possible, just exceptionally hard.  It made me wonder if there was some sort of bug that was introduced sometime just before launch.

Though rather than deny Chris' statements, I'm willing to take the lumps for it being the way that it is.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

I don't really see why you would need to take the lumps there, Allan. But I really think there is a lesson to be learned.

Many (MANY, MANY) players, in this thread and in general, say they are fine with MTX, or MP, or other features, as long as they are optional, or are not tied to the SP portion, or can be achieved through time alone. And I agree with that viewpoint.

The problem becomes a matter of total transparency. If people were told numerous times that MP/a smart phone app/etc. would not be required to access all SP content, then people can make an informed decision based on that. Similarly if they are told that MTX are not required to complete the game, or other such promises.

But if the players feel they cannot trust what they are being told, then how can anyone make an informed decision?

Maxis just got run through the ringer with the release of the always-online Sim City, but at least they came out as soon as they realized that people were having issues. Granted, they still got framed for it, but people did feel like the complaints were heard and the issue was being fixed.

Two weeks after ME3 came out, though, there were a number of complaints: the endings, first and foremost (responded to with the now-famous "artistic integrity" line), but also the Face Import bug (which was not hopped on to be talked about or fixed, just a "we know this is an issue, we are looking at it), the statements showing that Javik was nearly 100% on the disc by data miners that was unlocked by the DLC (which players were told they were wrong, without giving any kind of real technical explanation to combat the numbers the data miners were presenting) and, of course, the Breathe Scene Galactic Readiness issue we were talking about.

So there were many issues that arose in those first 10-20 days that many fans felt like they were told incorrect information in regards to, both before and after release. Instead of hopping in front of every available camera/blog/social media outlet/etc. to say "we know people are experiencing issues, here are why they happened, this is what we are doing to fix them," the overall message was "there is nothing wrong, but we love listening to the fans - what was your favorite part about ME3?"

That is why you'll see me fight MP and MTX and Always Onlien features. Not only because they can cause a terrible consumer experience - any game release can cause that, honestly. But because such things, since they concern features tied to revenue/profit generation, can be spun, selectively ignored or even downright lied about. And that's not making an experience where a consumer can make a smart, informed decision. If a player feels tricked into buying and paying for a game where they feel all the facts weren't available to them, then that puts a bad mark on the entire gaming industry as a bunch of shysters.

[Dave of Canada]

I don't want to really continue this tangent but I've stopped relying on marketing, they've been misleading people for years and it gets tiresome after a while until you feel nothing but apathy whenever you hear anything because they might be lying to your face or be condensending about it.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 mars 2013 - 01:15 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Well, I wouldn't consider responding to actual issues with your game that need correction or clarification as Marketing/PR. At least, it SHOULDN'T be. I realize that when you say there is a problem that there is a certain amount of face to be saved, but such things should be done openly and honestly, not with sound bites and sticking the collective corporate head in the sand.

[Lord Gremlin]

Hm, I'm conflicted. On one hand, if DA3 has microtransactions I'm not buying it at all ever - saves me the trouble of any decision-making in the matter, like it did with Dead Space 3, which I will never buy. On the other hand, it would be unfortunate because it cements the fact that I will never play a new Dragon Age game (I never go back to a series if I've missed even one installment).
I wonder if CEO resignation will bring change. A lot of DLC can be way more successful for such game than microtransactions.

Anyway, I feel like I should explain why I'm so adamant in never playing any games with microtransactions. I like to be immersed in a game and I like having a complete game. See, microtransactions ruin that. First, this is something that refers to real world stuff like Ps store or credit cards. Or purchasing digital content. Immersion broken. Second, this is like a bleeding hole, it makes game impossible to make whole. For example, I've bought all DLC for Fist of the North Star. So now my game is 100% full version (I'm talking about first game, not second which still getting DLC). Any game with microtransactions is NEVER complete.

[stormhit]

Conduit0 wrote...

That article is talking about ads in FTP as a revenue source. What Sylvius is talking about is product placement and ads in AAA retail games. Companies pay good money to get their products shown in a movie or tv show, if game developers could get in on that, it would help mitigate rising costs.

Either way, the main point is that it's already been done in AAA games. Maybe nobody here plays sports and racing games, but they've been in those for quite some time...and FTP or not, if companies purchasing advertisements aren't seeing much of a return on their buys, they won't continue.

[DreGregoire]

I got all the endings without playing mulitplayer and without modifying the game based on my actions in the first 2 games on a couple of my playthroughs. Then when the EC came out it was much easier to get all the endings because they decreased the EMS requirements. I suppose it's nice that they did that but for variety and to match the games style it would have been better, IMO, not to lower it so far.

I didn't even play multiplayer until much later and I liked being able to get ahead in multiplayer by purchasing the packs. *shrugs* I did not play multiplayer to improve my single player game experience.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 23 mars 2013 - 03:50 .

[Fast Jimmy]

DreGregoire wrote...

I got all the endings without playing mulitplayer and without modifying the game based on my actions in the first 2 games on a couple of my playthroughs. Then when the EC came out it was much easier to get all the endings because they decreased the EMS requirements. I suppose it's nice that they did that but for variety and to match the games style it would have been better, IMO, not to lower it so far.

I didn't even play multiplayer until much later and I liked being able to get ahead in multiplayer by purchasing the packs. *shrugs* I did not play multiplayer to improve my single player game experience.

False.

It was not possible to get the Breathe scene after choosing Destroy without MP or using the smart phone app. Regardless of imported game states and in-game choices. 

Empirically, mathematically, unequivocally impossible. 

[LilyasAvalon]

You do realise this is EA we're talking about, right? They'd probably make you pay micro-transactions to run if they could...

OH WAIT. They've already done that in SWTOR.

[AlanC9]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 the statements showing that Javik was nearly 100% on the disc by data miners that was unlocked by the DLC (which players were told they were wrong, without giving any kind of real technical explanation to combat the numbers the data miners were presenting)

My recollection of that response is that we were told that the miners were wrong about From Ashes being on the disk. Which is both technically true (the mission wasn't there, or at least wasn't complete) and a fairly transparent attempt to change the subject. Sort of like saying that you can get "the best" ending without MP pre-EC.

Whatever else Bio does, this communication strategy doesn't work.

[AlanC9]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

DreGregoire wrote...
I got all the endings without playing mulitplayer and without modifying the game based on my actions in the first 2 games on a couple of my playthroughs. Then when the EC came out it was much easier to get all the endings because they decreased the EMS requirements. I suppose it's nice that they did that but for variety and to match the games style it would have been better, IMO, not to lower it so far.

I didn't even play multiplayer until much later and I liked being able to get ahead in multiplayer by purchasing the packs. *shrugs* I did not play multiplayer to improve my single player game experience.

False.

It was not possible to get the Breathe scene after choosing Destroy without MP or using the smart phone app. Regardless of imported game states and in-game choices. 

Empirically, mathematically, unequivocally impossible. 

There were some modified coalesced files kicking around that gave you more EMS than the base game. Maybe he had one of those?

[DreGregoire]

Nope she didn't have a modified coalesced file. I wasn't really talking about the breath scene; I was talking about something else. *shrugs* It's not worth the debate in a thread that isn't about that; however. my issue was more that they lowered the EMS requirement so much that it made me feel like I couldn't get as many resulting changes for each ending based on how much or how little I did in the previous games.

-------------

I happen to like microtransactions because they save me some time, but I definately don't think a player should have to play multiplayer just to get even a minimal change to the ending like Shepard taking a breath in destroy.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 23 mars 2013 - 05:28 .

[Fast Jimmy]

DreGregoire wrote...

Nope she didn't have a modified coalesced file. I wasn't really talking about the breath scene;

Fair enough, but it is an ending/piece of SP content completely unobtainable without the MP/smart phone app. That's what I am talking about.

That's what people who say "I don't mind MP/MTX/Always Online/what-have-you in my game as long as I can receive all content without it." If a game developer comes out and says "sure, it is fine. You can get all SP content without these other things" and it is not true, players are unable to make an informed decision.

The fact that this was changed in the EC is completely immaterial. If you lie in court, get caught, then tell the truth, it doesn't make the original lie not perjury. In the same vein, in the court of public opinion, companies that tap dance around the truth when it comes to these types of practices and how they actually affect the core game are going to be found "guilty."

If Bioware had said that there were certain Easter Eggs in the SP game tied to MP right from the get go, then there would be no sense of being lied to. But the fact that they said all SP content was accessible without MP, continued to say so after the game was released and numbers told a different story, then come to find out, there was no way to achieve all of this, then that is seriously concerning. And fuel to the fire for arguments that say game developers are neither responsible nor ethical to be allowed to use these types of practices in a wise manner.

[Enigmatick]

EntropicAngel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

You do realise this is EA we're talking about, right? They'd probably make you pay micro-transactions to run if they could...

OH WAIT. They've already done that in SWTOR.

So where in TOR are you FORCED to use microtransactions?

Nowhere?

It's hardly a game unless you indulge in those microtransactions, they strip basic features out of the game make it f2p and sell em back to ya. But no you are right they don't force you to pay. 

[Fast Jimmy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

You do realise this is EA we're talking about, right? They'd probably make you pay micro-transactions to run if they could...

OH WAIT. They've already done that in SWTOR.

So where in TOR are you FORCED to use microtransactions?

Nowhere?

I think she meant that it is required to, physically, run. The ability to Sprint is limited to Premium or Preferred customers. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

You do realise this is EA we're talking about, right? They'd probably make you pay micro-transactions to run[/b] if they could...

OH WAIT. They've already done that in SWTOR.

So where in TOR are you FORCED to use microtransactions?

Nowhere?

They meant "run" in the sense of moving the legs briskly, in case there's any confusion here. TOR does have it set so you have to pay if you want to sprint before level 15. No, you're not actually forced to pay it. But huffing around like you need to cut back on the donuts and pudding for 15 levels really is designed for no reason but to pain your ass enough to spend the money.

...nah...

[Some Geth]

It's true...