18 réponses à ce sujet

[DragoGoldenwing]

They were carrying cooldown-boosting gear, as much as they could, turning on Bloodlust, then using Carnage with incapacitate instead of Flamer, they said to knock down enemies to ensure their heavy melee didn't mess up.  They'd do that to stack up Bloodlust, then go around heavy meleeing mooks and throwing a Carnage at bosses whenever they could.  They told me they knew Flamer was better DPS, but they could Carnage distant targets or use it as an oh-**** button if mooks got too close and after all the boosts were applied it could actually tear down armor pretty quickly.  Apparently the only sticking point was that even carrying lots of cooldown gear and a light shotgun/shotgun with ULM, the cooldown on Carnage with Bloodlust on was pretty poor, but they were willing to deal with it for something that seemed like it was ripping Ravagers and Brutes new totally superfluous body cavities.

(Speaking of I wonder why Bloodlust has such a huge penalty with no way to mitigate it like similar powers have?)

[Pyroninja42]

Because bloodlust is awesome?

Anyway, fascinating. I shall have to investigate this. What difficulty was it?

[chefcook90]

I only took 5 levels in passives and put three in carnage

I can make my own fire explosions!

[DragoGoldenwing]

Silver, but they said they used it on Gold too and were just playing around in Silver to try to figure out ways to adjust the cooldown without sacrificing power.

I was fascinated myself and dinked around in Nerida. Apparently with power damage passives and cooldown boosting gear you can get Carnage outside of Bloodlust down to ~1600 damage a shot to armor every 3 seconds, not including bonus damage from Bloodlust stacks.
Bloodlust probably inflates that number ridiculously high though, but maybe the power damage bonus offsets it a bit?
I dunno. It was just interesting to see a Vorcha using Carnage over Flamer and actually doing well.

[Kittstalkur]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

Because bloodlust is awesome?

Anyway, fascinating. I shall have to investigate this. What difficulty was it?

Given the power creep it could easily do with losing 20-30% of the power cooldown penalty. Maybe more.

Hell, the Trooper's more durable in the end and can flame harder.

[DragoGoldenwing]

Kittstalkur wrote...

Pyroninja42 wrote...

Because bloodlust is awesome?

Anyway, fascinating. I shall have to investigate this. What difficulty was it?

Given the power creep it could easily do with losing 20-30% of the power cooldown penalty. Maybe more.

Hell, the Trooper's more durable in the end and can flame harder.

I just find it strange that other sustained skills with cooldown increasing penalties have ways to offset the penalty, and offer larger increases to power damage than Bloodlust, yet Bloodlust has to spec specifically for power damage to get any out of the skill and has no way to offset the crazy penalty.
I know they aren't going to be patching it to give it an evolution that lets you increase power damage AND reduce cooldown penalty, but it'd be nice to see some way to offset the penalty.

Modifié par DragoGoldenwing, 22 mars 2013 - 02:48 .

[xOrpheon]

You haven't seen weird until you've seen an all melee Vorcha soldier who doesn't carnage or flamer. All heavy melee. Needless to say he didn't do too well. He might have been spec'd into one or the other, but he didn't use either the entire match.

[J4mes]

Vorcha Soldier = Best Melee utilizing Carnage
Vorcha Sentinel = Best Flamer with Cluster Grenades 3 Points for FEs
Vorcha Engy = Skip Incenerate and use the Kishock with Net for Predator Spear fun.

[DarkerCompanion]

I built a carnage Vorcha once and was dramatically disappointed with the results. Not fast enough and not nearly enough damage.

[LegionofRannoch]

i use a talon on my vorcha soldier with carnage instead of  flamer.

Modifié par LegionofRannoch, 22 mars 2013 - 03:01 .

[CobraJet97]

LegionofRannoch wrote...

i use a talon on my vorcha soldier with carnage instead of  flamer.

Really? I'd never given it much thought. How well does it work? 

[CitizenThom]

I re-built my VS last night... for power damage boosts out of Bloodlust, all weapon damage on the passive, up to heavy melee kill bonus damage on fitness (5), armor damage with flamer, and three in Carnage for detonations. Carrying only the Carnifex on Gold... Flamer is pretty darn effective on the build.

I used to take weapon damage boosts from Bloodlust.... power damage seems to be making more of an impact though.

[LegionofRannoch]

CobraJet97 wrote...

LegionofRannoch wrote...

i use a talon on my vorcha soldier with carnage instead of  flamer.

Really? I'd never given it much thought. How well does it work? 

it suits my playstyle, fast paced.. i do not like just sitting in one spot and using flamer..

its pretty good.. Fire Explosions cuz of dat incendiary ammo + carnage. you can just dance around brutes and ravagers.. especially ravagers because of bloodlust. collectors can be a problem tho.

[DragoGoldenwing]

So if my math is right, with Bloodlust active and fully stacked, if you go for power damage instead of cooldown on all your gear, you can fire off a Carnage every 3.8 seconds for nearly 2800 against armor. And if you take recharge speed over incapacitate, you can fire it off every 3 seconds but you lose knocking down mooks for protection/more reliable HM lock-on.

Six ranks in Flamer severely outperforms it of course, but you can't spam Flamer on something on the other side of the map while dancing in and out of soft cover, either, which for some might be worth the tradeoff.

Edit: And if you go for recharge speed gear over damage gear, with recharge speed instead of incapacitate on Carnage, you can fire off Carnage every 2.75 seconds for about 2k damage against armor with Bloodlust up and fully stacked, every 3 seconds if you take incapacitate instead of recharge speed.

Modifié par DragoGoldenwing, 22 mars 2013 - 05:33 .

[Ziegrif]

I use a pure power build specced to firesplode.
Too bad I just can't stay alive on a Vorcha unless I snipe.

That does sound interesting but the melee aspect turns me off.

[Oni Changas]

Any Vorcha Sen/Sol without flamer is doing it wrong. Very damn wrong. You sacrifice so much DPS. Why not go engineer and use incinerate?

[Badpanzer]

I actually use both flamer and carnage on my Vorchasol...built 6/6/6/5/3.
Carnage allows me to detonate TB/FE at range using ammo powers and I can self detonate flamer at closer ranges.
Carnage does little damage to health/shield/barrier but the TB/FE's do and against armour carnage is actually pretty good.
Bloodlust keeps him alive(mostly)and he is quite playable on gold or even plat.

Modifié par Badpanzer, 22 mars 2013 - 05:37 .

[peddroelm]

Vorcha melee builds can be plenty of fun and somewhat effective in gold games

vorcha hunter all melee build experiment on gold (solo cerberus attempt )

vorcha hunter melee build (more durable variant) vs gold collectors (team game)

Modifié par peddroelmz, 22 mars 2013 - 05:58 .

[Flambrose]

I use a similar build on my VSol. Vsent makes better use of Flamer, so I figured Vsol should be specced differently, even if it's sort of gimmicky.

... I find the heavy melee is just a bit too weak. Granted, I still haven't tried giving up health regen for more melee, but I don't like the idea of meleeing with gimped regen. Carnage as a standalone power is pretty mediocre to bad as well.. Melee vorcha can be really fun to play though, and it can work on gold, but I wouldn't expect to be able to carry a team with it.