346 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

Its about guns, boobs and explosions these days.
Frack storytelling.

Ah well, that's $60.00 saved.

[o Ventus]

Wayning_Star wrote...

all shooters..you're easy..lol

Literally half of that list are titles that aren't shooters.

[galland]

I did not expect to come onto the ME forums and hit spoilers about Bioshock!(which I have preordered!)Thanks a bunch.

[Robhuzz]

OdanUrr wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Without spoilers, how bad is it?

I read another analysis on another forum


 
It is plot holes ridden (one in particular is major one) and the feeling at the end is like the original ME ending leaving you with a zillion questions and no answers

But... but... I was going to pre-order it. It looked so shiny...

my suggestion? Wait

It comes with free copies of Bioshock 1 and XCOM.

I interpret that as: The game is not good enough to be sold on its own merit so we'll throw in a few free games to get people to pre order it. That way they won't see it sucks until it's too late and we already have their money.

You're killing my buzz here.

Didn't want to kill your buzz=]

Just trying to warn people against pre ordering. It's the easiest way to stop developers from crapping over their customers. Can't do stuff like this when people have a chance to test out your game before spending money. Or well they can but they'd sell a lot fewer copies. As it should be:pinched:

[crimzontearz]

o Ventus wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

all shooters..you're easy..lol

Literally half of that list are titles that aren't shooters.

I know right? Besides shooters can touch certain themes and make endings meaningful...look at Crysis 3 and Halo 4 for instance

[crimzontearz]

galland wrote...

I did not expect to come onto the ME forums and hit spoilers about Bioshock!(which I have preordered!)Thanks a bunch.

can you not read???

[DirtyPhoenix]

Lol.. ain't gonna read. Would see it for myself. There are many games whose endings were described as terribad in these forums which I found not half as bad so.. will see for myself.

Modifié par pirate1802, 22 mars 2013 - 04:02 .

[3DandBeyond]

Archonsg wrote...

Its about guns, boobs and explosions these days.
Frack storytelling.

Ah well, that's $60.00 saved.

Yep you got it. 

This means devs are really not understanding how their fanbase (or potential one) is changing.  The fact is, gamers are now older and trending that way and they're more diverse and trending that way.  But it seems devs don't like that and want to go for a different group, one that may not buy their own games or complain when they stink.  It's like they want to force games to be played by pre-teens. 

I'll admit I play CoD games and have generally "enjoyed" sometimes getting in on mindless action.  Black Ops 2 is IMO the worst of the bunch as far as bugs and unequal play in MP.  In all the years I have played CoD games I have never heard this much complaining about how bad online is (complaining while playing).  And I've also noticed that the older players are dropping it-most of the players now sound like they just recently stopped breastfeeding.

I've looked at company descriptions for Bioshock Infinite and even those make it sound like a mess that is just all over the place.  They don't make me want to buy it and I was sort of excited that a new Bioshock was due out-stopped being so after ME3's debacle, then the Sims3, and Dead Space 3, as well as Black Ops2, a lot of other games with 3 in the title and so on.  The state of gaming is now make it look good and act childish, with lots of sounds that go boom.  Then try to make it sound smart.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Now, I haven't played BioShock, but I have read plot synopses for both of the first two, and it seems to me that the whole reason people enjoyed it was because it was a massive mind screw. This just sounds par for the course to me.

ME3's ending is worse because the writers wrote a straightforward, black-and-white-morality hero's tale and tried to turn it into a mind screw just for the final ten minutes.

[3DandBeyond]

Ok, I don't think I can take another game where it all must be open to speculation.

http://metro.co.uk/2...before-3364536/

I don't mind some of it, but in this interview the dev is making claims that seem eerily familiar. If I ever get this game it will be used. The only good thing seems to me to be that there's no MP-I like MP in some games but not when it takes focus from the SP game.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 mars 2013 - 04:13 .

[crimzontearz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Its about guns, boobs and explosions these days.
Frack storytelling.

Ah well, that's $60.00 saved.

Yep you got it. 

This means devs are really not understanding how their fanbase (or potential one) is changing.  The fact is, gamers are now older and trending that way and they're more diverse and trending that way.  But it seems devs don't like that and want to go for a different group, one that may not buy their own games or complain when they stink.  It's like they want to force games to be played by pre-teens. 

I'll admit I play CoD games and have generally "enjoyed" sometimes getting in on mindless action.  Black Ops 2 is IMO the worst of the bunch as far as bugs and unequal play in MP.  In all the years I have played CoD games I have never heard this much complaining about how bad online is (complaining while playing).  And I've also noticed that the older players are dropping it-most of the players now sound like they just recently stopped breastfeeding.

I've looked at company descriptions for Bioshock Infinite and even those make it sound like a mess that is just all over the place.  They don't make me want to buy it and I was sort of excited that a new Bioshock was due out-stopped being so after ME3's debacle, then the Sims3, and Dead Space 3, as well as Black Ops2, a lot of other games with 3 in the title and so on.  The state of gaming is now make it look good and act childish, with lots of sounds that go boom.  Then try to make it sound smart.

crysis 3 came out good in my opinion. Crytek listened to the fanbase and the result was good, then again, Crytek is not owned by EA

[CronoDragoon]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Now, I haven't played BioShock, but I have read plot synopses for both of the first two, and it seems to me that the whole reason people enjoyed it was because it was a massive mind screw. This just sounds par for the course to me.

Agreed for 1, not so much for 2. 2 is more about the paternal relationship between Little Sisters and Big Daddies, specifically you (a Big Daddy) and a girl named Eleanor. This is why I prefer 2, because the story doesn't hinge on a big plot twist.

Then again, I don't believe Levine was in charge of 2, so in terms of games he has directed, if Infinite trades a compelling story for a big plot twist, it's not unprecedented for him considering 1. Then again, even people who like the plot twist in 1 tend to agree that the game stagnates afterwards.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 22 mars 2013 - 04:16 .

[3DandBeyond]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Now, I haven't played BioShock, but I have read plot synopses for both of the first two, and it seems to me that the whole reason people enjoyed it was because it was a massive mind screw. This just sounds par for the course to me.

ME3's ending is worse because the writers wrote a straightforward, black-and-white-morality hero's tale and tried to turn it into a mind screw just for the final ten minutes.

I agree-ME3's ending will always be the worst (until something even worse comes along) based upon the fact that it was that giant twisty ending that came out of nowhere, had no explanation, forced you to make a choice that never made any kind of sense to simply end a galactic war of annihilation.  The story was straightforward and made a lot of sense-the ending was so bad because it didn't fit the story world ME3 lived in.

[crimzontearz]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, I don't think I can take another game where it all must be open to speculation.

http://metro.co.uk/2...before-3364536/

I don't mind some of it, but in this interview the dev is making claims that seem eerily familiar. If I ever get this game it will be used. The only good thing seems to me to be that there's no MP-I like MP in some games but not when it takes focus from the SP game.

the post credits tag in Bioahock infinite renders everything in the game up to speculation

[DirtyPhoenix]

crimzontearz wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, I don't think I can take another game where it all must be open to speculation.

http://metro.co.uk/2...before-3364536/

I don't mind some of it, but in this interview the dev is making claims that seem eerily familiar. If I ever get this game it will be used. The only good thing seems to me to be that there's no MP-I like MP in some games but not when it takes focus from the SP game.

the post credits tag in Bioahock infinite renders everything in the game up to speculation

I don't mind that. Speculation is good if done properly. See: Spec Ops The Line. You can't even freaking say if the whole game was real or just your hallucination or even your personal hell. So really have to play it to see how exactly it is. Still looking forward to the game.

Modifié par pirate1802, 22 mars 2013 - 04:20 .

[Kel Riever]

It seems the current breed of developers are rather incestuous, thinking they and they alone have some big secret story to tell, which is hallmarked by the hated responses received. They don't seem to understand the difference that maybe people don't like a story because it is actually badly done, don't like a game because it is badly done, and don't like their hamfisted excuses over that 'it was supposed to be that way.' Translation: 'We meant to not do our jobs on purpose. Aren't we clever?' Surrounded by input only received in their ivory tower, and listening only to the positive feedback, it shouldn't be any surprise why, when a game goes south, the developer sounds like a stone cold idiot, rather than someone actually thoughtful.

[ThatDancingTurian]

3DandBeyond wrote...

I agree-ME3's ending will always be the worst (until something even worse comes along) based upon the fact that it was that giant twisty ending that came out of nowhere, had no explanation, forced you to make a choice that never made any kind of sense to simply end a galactic war of annihilation.  The story was straightforward and made a lot of sense-the ending was so bad because it didn't fit the story world ME3 lived in.

Right. Even if this game doesn't hit the mark, I have more respect for someone trying to tell a philosophical/controversial story from the beginning and focusing on that, both in conception and execution, than someone who tries to have it both ways. You can't tell a mainstream action-adventure story and then tack on pseudo-intellectual ramblings at the last second and have it work out.

[elitecom]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ok, I don't think I can take another game where it all must be open to speculation.

http://metro.co.uk/2...before-3364536/

I don't mind some of it, but in this interview the dev is making claims that seem eerily familiar. If I ever get this game it will be used. The only good thing seems to me to be that there's no MP-I like MP in some games but not when it takes focus from the SP game.

Yeah, it's pretty much all there.

elitecom wrote...

I haven't played any of the Bioshock games but with this quote from the designer :

"The end of the game.... It's like nothing you've actually experienced in a video game before"

Now, where have I heard something like that before? Looks like Bioshock Infinte may be a contender to Mass Effect 3 after all.

Source: www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-18-levine-bioshock-infinite-ending-like-nothing-youve-experienced-in-a-video-game-before

That quote is just too familiar, but you know this could be fun maybe Bioshock Infinite will outdo ME3,
it's a fight!

Kel Riever wrote...
It seems the current breed of developers are rather incestuous, thinking they and they alone have some big secret story to tell, which is hallmarked by the hated responses received. They don't seem to understand the difference that maybe people don't like a story because it is actually badly done, don't like a game because it is badly done, and don't like their hamfisted excuses over that 'it was supposed to be that way.' Translation: 'We meant to not do our jobs on purpose. Aren't we clever?' Surrounded by input only received in their ivory tower, and listening only to the positive feedback, it shouldn't be any surprise why, when a game goes south, the developer sounds like a stone cold idiot, rather than someone actually thoughtful.

I think it's a bit along the lines of: Deep people strive for clarity while not so deep people strive for obscurity. That's exactly what Bioware did with ME3. They wanted to create this really deep ending or whatever and ended up with a blatantly obscure one instead.

Modifié par elitecom, 22 mars 2013 - 04:28 .

[Maverick827]

All of you are the reason why mindless shooters are so popular. With your childishness and vitriol, it's simply safer to make a non-story-driven game because there are no idiots to cry over endings they either don't understand or didn't like.

[tevix]

@Maverick

"Complaining about complaints is unproductive."

--Ninja Stan

[CronoDragoon]

Maverick827 wrote...

All of you are the reason why mindless shooters are so popular. With your childishness and vitriol, it's simply safer to make a non-story-driven game because there are no idiots to cry over endings they either don't understand or didn't like.

C-. Not bad, but you can do better.

[3DandBeyond]

elitecom wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...
It seems the current breed of developers are rather incestuous, thinking they and they alone have some big secret story to tell, which is hallmarked by the hated responses received. They don't seem to understand the difference that maybe people don't like a story because it is actually badly done, don't like a game because it is badly done, and don't like their hamfisted excuses over that 'it was supposed to be that way.' Translation: 'We meant to not do our jobs on purpose. Aren't we clever?' Surrounded by input only received in their ivory tower, and listening only to the positive feedback, it shouldn't be any surprise why, when a game goes south, the developer sounds like a stone cold idiot, rather than someone actually thoughtful.

I think it's a bit along the lines of: Deep people strive for clarity while not so deep people strive for obscurity. That's exactly what Bioware did with ME3. They wanted to create this really deep ending or whatever and ended up with a blatantly obscure one instead.

Yes, make it obscure enough that you can claim people just didn't understand how deep you were being and all.  They're just too stupid to understand what you were trying to say.

Well, that's great if devs really do have something they meant to say.  In the Bioshock Infinite interviews the dev seems to like to tell what he didn't mean by things (it's not saying nasty things about religion and all), but not big on saying what it is supposed to mean.

Another thing BW has yet to do, explain their intent as to ME3's ending-promised a long time ago and yet to be realized.

Apparently it's so much better to just throw stuff together and leave it up to fans to create some meaning for you-like gaming's Rorschach Test.  It's a vase, no it's two men with beards.  No matter what you're right and no matter what, you're wrong.

[SpamBot2000]

Maverick827 wrote...

All of you are the reason why mindless shooters are so popular. With your childishness and vitriol, it's simply safer to make a non-story-driven game because there are no idiots to cry over endings they either don't understand or didn't like.

Which generation is that hateful sig supposed to refer to anyways?

Idiotic vitriol indeed.

[3DandBeyond]

Maverick827 wrote...

All of you are the reason why mindless shooters are so popular. With your childishness and vitriol, it's simply safer to make a non-story-driven game because there are no idiots to cry over endings they either don't understand or didn't like.

Actually, it would be totally unique and wonderful and even profitable to create games that feature great stories and themes and then to stick to the plot in some way, or create a plot twist that works and makes sense at the end.  And if the game is to be one where choices matter and are meant to determine the outcome, then don't drop the ball at the end because you couldn't figure out how to make an ending.  Leaving it all up to fans to speculate and create some meaning to your game's ending that you then use to make an extended ending is laziness.  And hyping the ending as if it's some divine spirit's gift to the modern world and then delivering tripe that is pseudointellectual and anti-logical and defy fans to see it as such is just dumb.  Promising to explain it all when enough people have experienced your ending and then never doing so, is just pandering.

Making a great story with a great plot with a great ending and with great characters is something that would be treasured and it would break new ground and create a new vision as to what gaming could be.