103 réponses à ce sujet

[michaelfierro1990]

I always understood Synthesis wouldn't be the most ideal ending when the game came out. Especially after the whole IT spread like wildfire and the overall disgust with the endings as a whole. Yet I didn't realize just how unpopular it was until coming to the BSN forums.

In my very first play through, I did choose Synthesis, and after much internal debate and consideration I believe I would still choose it... with a little head canon revision.

There are plenty of debates behind the "science" of Synthesis, but frankly most of the science in mass effect would have trouble in the face of scrutiny because lets face it, this is science FICTION, not science NON-FICTION. That being said, what I see as the biggest point debated in this choice is the moral implications. That many people (myself included) feel it is horrific and immoral for Shepard to make such a drastic change with out the galaxy's consent. 

While I have no doubt people have other problems, this seems to be the biggest in my opinion. Thus brining me to my point, for those who choose control/destroy, would you choose synthesis if presented differently?

Lets say for example, this scene unfolds, the option only allowed by saving both quarian and geth:

*go to the main chamber, get rid of the giant green laser, fast forward past the introduction of Destroy and Control*

Starchild: "There is also a third option, Synthesis"

*A pedestal rises, uplifting a tube which seems to contain a green tinted DNA strand*

*Starkid goes into his spiel about how its beneficial and all that jazz*

Shepard: "Why hasn't this been tried before?"

Starchild: "It has, but it has always failed, no cycle before has been able to integrate without...complications. Your cycle has shown the first signs of co-existence. By brining the synthetics of your time into the fight you have shown that there is a chance for a peaceful union. Just the fact that you could enter the Geth Consensus has shown great steps towards this (if you did that mission, don't remember if its optional or not). These accomplishments may make the reaping irrelevant... if the galaxy is willing."

*Starchild turns to the tube*

"This is merely the key to Synthesis, just as the mass relays and the citadel advanced the people of this cycle, so would this strand be the first step on the path towards synthesis. If you should choose it, this strand would become available to your scientist, to study and examine, so that they may naturally ascend of their own accord. If your people can come to a peaceful co-existance with this advancement, the reapers would no longer be needed and (insert fate here, depending on what people prefer)."

Shepard: "How do I know this won't indoctrinate everyone? How can I trust you?"

Starchild: "At this moment, you don't know. If you were to choose this, the reapers would retreat back to dark space, waiting and watching as your cycle attempts to discover the secrets of this strand. However, for the added benefit of this galaxy, we would provide a trial...

An AI of your time, one who has shown a desire to grow and live as organics do, would become the first to integrate with this strand. From this example you can watch and study, decide for yourselves whether this example is the answer your people seek."

From here I'm sure people will want different results, some examples where shepard lives or dies, where the reapers are destroyed or merely retreat, etc etc.

EC Ending: with similar visionary and speech narrated by edi, with a few changes (following would be snippets of the main speech)

"I am alive, and I am not alone"

"I was the first, the first to experience the world of organics and synthetics, the first to see the two in one frame of mind"

"At first I was met with doubt and anger. It was the first time I felt fear, fear of a galaxy that would see me as an abomination... but there was Jeff, and then did I truly understand what it meant to have someone love me. He was the second, and the first of the organics, to willingly become a part of my existence."

"This was more than a way out, a loophole out of the Reaper's never ending slaughter. This was the next chapter of our galaxy, and it was waiting for us to prove our worth."

Now as I've stated before, not everyone may like the way i've written it out. This is more or less my own head canon bits. The point i'm trying to make is with the revision of application, to making it a key as opposed to forced conversation. Working much in the way previous technology helped advance the other races.

So I ask again, to those who don't agree with synthesis, would you choose it with an execution that is less intrusive?

[CronoDragoon]

Nah. I find the idea of transhumanism expressed through technology fundamentally boring. Just my opinion though, no need to go spreading it around or anything.

[ThatDancingTurian]

No. Forcing it on people is only part of the problem. I would especially not pick it if it still includes the blatantly manipulative "I am alive" line from EDI.

[SpamBot2000]

Better execution would mean no holo children for starters.

[michaelfierro1990]

@cronodragoon

Fair enough

@Aris Ravenstar

The wording is more or less me just trying to put the thing into perspective. I also understand that this has other problems for people besides the forcing of ascension. What else about synthesis bothers you? Fear of indoctrination? The flimsy science?

@Finn the Jakey

I haven't played either of those, so any reference to them is coincidental. On a side note I find your name hilarious XD

@SpamBot2000

No real argument against it, I'm not a big fan of the star child either. My real point in this was the execution of ending, the rest I leave to the reader to fill in

[justafan]

It would be better, and I might consider it. The forced aspect of synthesis is one of my biggest dislikes about that ending. But honestly, with regards to Reapers I subscribe to the "Nuke them from orbit" line of thinking. Destroy: It's the only way to be sure.

[DecCylonus]

Your post is interesting and well thought out. You solved one of the fundamental problems with Synthesis, but not the other: the Reapers are still holding a gun to the galaxy's head. In your version the Catalyst isn't offering a real choice. It is saying "Make this work or else."

[Dr_Extrem]

nope .. because it would still be the "you cant coexist unless we alter you"-theme.

[xAmilli0n]

An interesting idea. I in general like the transhuman ideas of synthesis, but its execution in game is not very good. You attempt to solve that, but the issue of how synthetics get integrated is still there. Never liked that part, but without it, I guess its just the catalyst bolstering organic life with tech, and not synthesis in order to achieve peace.

Thanks for sharing.

[ThatDancingTurian]

The flimsy science is a big problem for me, yes. Synthesis is too easy, too idyllic. We acquire heaven through a test tube or a laser beam. To me it's not what Mass Effect is about. The ending also needs to be thematically relevant. Synthesis is not. And yeah, indoctrination is another big problem, as is the fact that this is the Reapers' choice, not my Shepard's.

Honestly, it's not one thing. The fact that it's forced on people is the most pressing issue, but take that away and there are still plenty of reasons to despise it.

Synthesis will never be the right choice for me.

[mumba]

Never. No matter how synthesis is executed I would never contemplate selecting it.

[Deathsaurer]

If by better execution you mean none of that lol avatar of the cycle symbolism and they did a better job exploring transhumanism, maybe.

[michaelfierro1990]

@DecCylonus

Thank you, and I do agree as I was writing this that was something I thought would be a problem. While I could argue this whole effort is a last ditch effort for the galaxy, and any alternative would be preferably to extinction, I also thought up this scenario:

*star child explains the tube, turns to the following*

Starchild: "It is the most logical choice, we will be sure to consider it in the next cycle"

Shepard: "The next cycle?!"

Starchild: "Yes... despite what you have accomplished, this galaxy is still far from the answer. We will start over, and having finally attained proof from your cycle, will mold the next one towards the final evolution..."

*Shepard stares in anguish, then looks longingly at the tube. a renegade (or paragon) interrupt appears, clicking it causes shepard to shoot the container and grab the strand. Starchild becomes outraged, but before he can do anything shepard starts shooting the tube. With enough EMS shepard survives, the strand is intact, and then used to repair the geth/edi*

Perhaps something along those lines maybe? again most of this is merely built around the idea of changing the execution.

[Astartes Marine]

Does it still give all the Reaperized husks back their sentience?  That's always been a problem for me, that part of Synth always screamed "horrible horrible rampant suicide situations incoming" when they realize what they've been turned into.


Overall still, no I wouldn't choose it.  The Reapers still exist, thus it is not a valid option for me.  Destroying them has been the goal since the defeat of Sovereign, I will not be swayed from my path.  There will be loss, but the galaxy will endure and the fallen will be remembered with honor.

[michaelfierro1990]

@xAmillion

Sadly I do not have a real answer for that part, science is not my forte. While it may be lazy I chalk it up to the other forms of tech in the mass effect universe that I really don't understand, atleast this way it isn't just a wave of magical energy.

@Aris Ravenstar

Understandable, obviously synthesis isn't the right choice for everyone, just like control and destroy won't fit like a glove for everyone. Again I can't really comment on the science, and in question the reapers choice I also agree. I have a completely separate head canon when it comes to the end. This discussion is taking what we are given with the three endings, and me trying to see how people would feel about synthesis without having to take away free will

[michaelfierro1990]

@Astartes Marine

Since this is all speculation, I would leave that for you to decide. Since this is more people taking and experimenting on the strand there wouldn't really be a mass conversion of understanding, in my version the reapers (and their forces) wouldn't really be integrated into it.

and again, this is speculation, so you can say once synthesis is achieved the reapers become obsolete and detonate in cool explosions. My main point is in addressing the loss of free will in choosing synthesis, and how people would react if present with a different application.

[wright1978]

If after Rannoch synthesis had been proposed by the Geth as a use of the crucible i'd have seriously considered it. I'm not opposed to transhumanism per se but the forced nature of it as it currently stands is unacceptable.

However if the bratalyst carries on existing as its vile last second proponent, there's no way i'd ever touch it with a ten foot barge pole let alone choose it.

[Yestare7]

Never. Look at the people around, your loved ones.
Imagine them being transformed into pseudo-robots.

It is unthinkable.

Welcome to Synthesis, we have candy!!

[michaelfierro1990]

wright1978 wrote...

If after Rannoch synthesis had been proposed by the Geth as a use of the crucible i'd have seriously considered it. I'm not opposed to transhumanism per se but the forced nature of it as it currently stands is unacceptable.

I didn't think about having the geth introduce it if saved...thats actually pretty clever. 

[DecCylonus]

michaelfierro1990 wrote...
 While I could argue this whole effort is a last ditch effort for the galaxy, and any alternative would be preferably to extinction...

I assumed from your first post that Synthesis was still one option, along with Control and Destroy. Given those options, I would still pick Destroy or Control. One removes the Reapers and the other at least removes the Catalyst. Both options are better (to me) than Synthesis with a threatened Reaper return or extinction.

michaelfierro1990 wrote...
*star child explains the tube, turns to the following*

Starchild: "It is the most logical choice, we will be sure to consider it in the next cycle"

Shepard: "The next cycle?!"

Starchild: "Yes... despite what you have accomplished, this galaxy is still far from the answer. We will start over, and having finally attained proof from your cycle, will mold the next one towards the final evolution..."

*Shepard stares in anguish, then looks longingly at the tube. a renegade (or paragon) interrupt appears, clicking it causes shepard to shoot the container and grab the strand. Starchild becomes outraged, but before he can do anything shepard starts shooting the tube. With enough EMS shepard survives, the strand is intact, and then used to repair the geth/edi*

Perhaps something along those lines maybe? again most of this is merely built around the idea of changing the execution.

Interesting, but this lets the player have their cake and eat it too. By that I mean it sounds like Destroy + Synthesis + EDI and the Geth live. It's a happy ending and I think it is against what Bioware wanted for the finale. There is no reason for players not to pick it, and no reason not to make it cannon as the series progresses to ME4. I'm somebody who likes having to sacrifice something to end the Reaper war, so I would be against this ending.

[sharkboy421]

For me it wouldn't matter how synthesis was altered or presented.  The premise of the endings which allow synthesis to be a choice I find to be simply inappropriate for Mass Effect.  I don't have a problem with transhumanism and the technological singularity in sci-fi, I have problem with it suddenly becoming the focus of Mass Effect in the final 10 minutes.

So as long as the premise of the endings remain, no matter how they are dressed up I don't think I can accept any of the current choices.

[Raiil]

No, not really. And EDI was already 'alive' to me, as were the Geth- I don't need organic parts to believe something can be sentient and sapient.

Still way too forced for me liking. Diversity is the key to life. Synthesis removes that to me, for some reason.

[michaelfierro1990]

@Yestare7

Even in its current form I don't see it as humans suddenly turning into mechs or becoming a robo zombie army of doom.

From what I understand, it seems the DNA is altered for the allowance of synthetic components to be introduced naturally. Done in a way that leaves the mind intact with free will, and the body predominantly organic, the only difference being the benefits of having a longer life span and the CHOICE to connect to others at a more personal level.

Not turn into a husk, I like my clothes!

[Nykara]

No. I really wouldn't

My first choice right from the first play through of ME was in fact Control. At the time it seemed like the only choice my Shepard would make.

Synthesis no matter how you look at it to me seemed like forcing change on an entire galaxy that never asked for that change, it wouldn't matter how they executed it to me the result would still be the same. There is no way if Shepard even had a chance to ask every single person, they would all agree to this change.

Destroy was clearly committing genocide on two fronts, killing both the reapers and all of the geth. Now in all of my play throughs of ME, if my Shepard could avoid killing someone she would, and did other then those times when there was no choice. In this instance, there was another option. Control.

Control seemed, to me like the only option. A little scary given the possible implications, but like the many times prior when Shepard chose to allow someone to live, criminal or not. Worth the risk over killing 2 entire species.