191 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

megabeast37215 wrote...

The other vanguards can't touch this amount of damage output... NOT EVEN CLOSE...

Well, I just started breathing again after that FTLsomething guy made me laugh so hard.

So, I'll just toss my 2 cents in.

Mega, you know I love my Slayer very very much. But if you're talking mere damage output... Then he's quite behind a Drellguard. No clue about the Asari as I don't play her nearly enough to know, but I know that, as far as score goes, a Drellguard does make a Slayer eat dust.

I read your argument with Fortack, and the point is: if you're going for score, you should not be killing bosses. Period. It doesn't matter who's a better boss killer, cause you should leave them for last and then concentrate fire on them with your teammates (talking gold here mind you... Platinum is different of course).

As far as score goes, the only thing that matters is who's the better sub-boss and mook killer. Those are the ones who hold the score, not bosses. It takes too long to kill them.

And the Drellguard is a better mook/subbosses killer than the Slayer. Clusters do more damage than PD, doesn't matter how you go around that  Plus, they don't have a limit on the amount of enemies hit. Which is a huge thing.


That said, I wouldn't say that the Drellguard is a better character than the Slayer. Mere damage output isn't the only important thing in a character. Its survivability is also important. More or less, it depends on your playstile, but it's always important.

And when it comes to survivability... Nothing comes close to the Slayer. No other character in the entire game can pull off the stunts he can pull off, and come out alive. No other.


In the end, which character is better is just a subjective thing. I'd have a really hard time choosing, but I know I'd pick the Drellguard in the end. But that is just me, it has to do with my history in ME3 MP, with how much I like Drell in general, and with the way I like to play, as well as serveral other things...

And man. Dat jacket. You can't beat that. 

[Daxamite]

Most vanguards are frustrating to play off host.

I'd say the Phoenix is more rare than slayer , just about

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...
You can do it vs Ravagers or Scions or Primes - true. But fast auto mooks will track you no problem. 

They are all easy OSK fodder... I prioritize them before attacking the bosses. The guys with full auto weapons are the ones who murder the Slayer (Marauders/Captains/Centurions particularly).

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...The difference between Slayer and AssGuard is that he's locked in place when doing PD. He has no DR and he drains his bariers while doing it. He needs 3 PD's to match 1 Asari Lift grenade. And she can move while throwing them and use her barrier to purely absorb hits.   

Although I really enjoy my Bonus Power Slayer with Geth Scanner. 

Actually... he's not.

For instance: I used to do the light melee thing on Primes b/c standing in front of them spamming PD got me killed.... then I figured out I can circle strafe around the Primes while spamming PD at their feet and they can't land a shot on me.

Edit: Also.... things don't shoot back at you when they are stunlocked by PD. Asari can't stunlock entire mobs without depleting her grenade stores.

 

Play on PC with 60 FPS. They will shoot you no problem. 

But I don't wanna!!!

[megabeast37215]

Deerber wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

The other vanguards can't touch this amount of damage output... NOT EVEN CLOSE...

Well, I just started breathing again after that FTLsomething guy made me laugh so hard.

So, I'll just toss my 2 cents in.

Mega, you know I love my Slayer very very much. But if you're talking mere damage output... Then he's quite behind a Drellguard. No clue about the Asari as I don't play her nearly enough to know, but I know that, as far as score goes, a Drellguard does make a Slayer eat dust.

I read your argument with Fortack, and the point is: if you're going for score, you should not be killing bosses. Period. It doesn't matter who's a better boss killer, cause you should leave them for last and then concentrate fire on them with your teammates (talking gold here mind you... Platinum is different of course).

As far as score goes, the only thing that matters is who's the better sub-boss and mook killer. Those are the ones who hold the score, not bosses. It takes too long to kill them.

And the Drellguard is a better mook/subbosses killer than the Slayer. Clusters do more damage than PD, doesn't matter how you go around that  Plus, they don't have a limit on the amount of enemies hit. Which is a huge thing.

That said, I wouldn't say that the Drellguard is a better character than the Slayer. Mere damage output isn't the only important thing in a character. Its survivability is also important. More or less, it depends on your playstile, but it's always important.

And when it comes to survivability... Nothing comes close to the Slayer. No other character in the entire game can pull off the stunts he can pull off, and come out alive. No other.


In the end, which character is better is just a subjective thing. I'd have a really hard time choosing, but I know I'd pick the Drellguard in the end. But that is just me, it has to do with my history in ME3 MP, with how much I like Drell in general, and with the way I like to play, as well as serveral other things...

And man. Dat jacket. You can't beat that. 

But Drellguards damage output is limited to grenades/weapon... hence... finite sources. He has to goto ammo boxes...

I agree with you about mooks being the key to high score... but literally every mook in the game besides Phantoms/Possessed Captains gets OSK by a single Acolyte/Charge combo... so every Vanguard can do that.

I COMPLETELY disagree with the "you should not be killing bosses" comment. I don't f**king run away from bosses... what kind of sissy BS is that!?!? I will stand my ground and kick that bosses ass... or die trying. I've gotten so good at killing bosses with him that he is a go-to Platinum kit for me.

Concerning Clusters vs PD: I acknowledge that Clusters do more damage than PD... but in addition to cluster being of limited supply... they are much trickier to aim than PD is. PD can be aimed accurately across the map, no problem. You can't do that with clusters. Also.. when the spawn is spread out... PD can mop up separated groups, which the grenadiers have to spend a large amount of grenades/weapon fire to achieve the same results.

Agree 100% about the stunts he can pull off. That is probably the greatest allure of the kit to me... but I hadn't thought about it that way until you mentioned it.

[lightswitch]

MP-Ryan wrote...
I could see PD being less effective without a mouse.

I suspect this is the crux of the Slayers lack of popularity.

I wouldn't really know though, I don't play that vanguard cheez

[AGCeyx]

The Slayer is my Favorite Char, I just do not get to play him very often because I enjoy the very offensive meele/PD Slayer and he suffers greatly off host...

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
You can do it vs Ravagers or Scions or Primes - true. But fast auto mooks will track you no problem. 

They are all easy OSK fodder... I prioritize them before attacking the bosses. The guys with full auto weapons are the ones who murder the Slayer (Marauders/Captains/Centurions particularly).

 

You can prioritze. While you're fighting 2-3 troopers - some other douche can snipe you from range, because you're draining your barriers and you can't move while PD'ing. Plus his dodge while goes trough walls is rather slow. Asari can chain her dodges ultra fast.  

Anyway. For me Slayer is awesome. But Assguard and DrellGuard and even the Novaguard can keep up with him no problem. 

That's very true about the unseen enemies.... this is why Geth Scanner was such a blessing for me. With all the exploding, flipping, charging.. it can be very easy to miss a Marauder hiding behind a piece of cover... and he will down the Slayer pretty quickly before the Slayer can locate him.

If I get hit in the back from across the map... and gated... dodge spam.

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...

As I said - on PC with 60 FPS you can dodge spam all you want. If the freakin Marauder has locked on you - he's not going to miss. Not even once. It's gonna be a 1 continous stream of bullets right in your grill. I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Only if you manage to place a wall in between you may survive. 

Also I play without Cyclonics on him. Power Amplifiers for me. 

I believe you about the PC Marauder BS. It's been pretty well documented at this point

Power Amps for me too... and I only have 3 points in fitness.

[Deerber]

megabeast37215 wrote...

But Drellguards damage output is limited to grenades/weapon... hence... finite sources. He has to goto ammo boxes...

If you're playing with people that might actually manage to outscore you, you'll have to try very hard to finish all your grenades before the game ends - and you won't be able to. If you're playing with people who cannot outscore you (pugs) then using a bit more judgement with your grenades isn't gonna hurt your score much, so no problem.

megabeast37215 wrote...

I agree with you about mooks being the key to high score... but literally every mook in the game besides Phantoms/Possessed Captains gets OSK by a single Acolyte/Charge combo... so every Vanguard can do that.

Mooks, yeah. Subbosses, no. Not all of them. Dragoons/Brutes/Ravagers/Scion do not die from an acolyte/charge combo. And especially Dragoons and Ravagers, they're a score****r's best friends.

megabeast37215 wrote...

I COMPLETELY disagree with the "you should not be killing bosses" comment. I don't f**king run away from bosses... what kind of sissy BS is that!?!? I will stand my ground and kick that bosses ass... or die trying. I've gotten so good at killing bosses with him that he is a go-to Platinum kit for me.

Haha I understand and I completely agree :happy:. I'm not saying avoiding bosses is how you should play. I'm saying avoiding bosses is how you should play if all you care about is the score. Cause if you fire on the bosses when there's still other stuff on the map, the guy who's shooting the other stuff will outscore you - if he's good.

megabeast37215 wrote...

Concerning Clusters vs PD: I acknowledge that Clusters do more damage than PD... but in addition to cluster being of limited supply... they are much trickier to aim than PD is. PD can be aimed accurately across the map, no problem. You can't do that with clusters.

C'mon Mega... This is the same old argument I see everytime the "lift vs clusters" argument pops out. "But lifts are so much more accurate, you can hit the enemy across the map!".

Yeah, it's true. But you're playing a freakin' Vanguard. Instead of spamming grenades/PD from far away, why don't you charge and then spam grenades/PD in their face? It's much much more effective and fun...

And I'm sure you know that 

Air Quotes wrote...

As I said - on PC with 60 FPS you can dodge spam all you want. If the freakin Marauder has locked on you - he's not going to miss. Not even once. It's gonna be a 1 continous stream of bullets right in your grill. I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Only if you manage to place a wall in between you may survive. 

Also I play without Cyclonics on him. Power Amplifiers for me. 

You're exaggerating. A lot.

[MajorStupidity]

Arctican wrote...

They're highly host dependent. Not fun off host.

^this
He also has a fairly high learning curve compared to other characters (but isn't that the vanguard in general)

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

As I said - on PC with 60 FPS you can dodge spam all you want. If the freakin Marauder has locked on you - he's not going to miss. Not even once. It's gonna be a 1 continous stream of bullets right in your grill. I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Only if you manage to place a wall in between you may survive. 

Also I play without Cyclonics on him. Power Amplifiers for me. 

I believe you about the PC Marauder BS. It's been pretty well documented at this point

Power Amps for me too... and I only have 3 points in fitness.

 

So why did you go for maxed BS? It's so slow. Yeah, Geth Scanner helps with targeting, but damn I still hate it. 

For a few reasons.

Better synergy with Biotic teams (Reavers, Dark Sphere particularly). BS also has a +50% BE evo... so it makes high quality BEs... in addition to doing around 2500 damage to multiple targets.

The biggest reason = so I can wipe Collector spawns of Seeker Swarms and Geth Primes of Drones/Turrets before engaging them normally. This also applies to Cerberus Turrets somewhat... even though I can kill them with a simple Acolyte/PD combo... sometimes I don't have shields to spare for a PD (like when the turret sees me first). This lets me attack the turrets care-free without having to Biotic Charge them.

Because the range on BS is the exact same range as the Geth Scanner (20 meters). So if I can see it... I can damage it regardless of how many walls it's through.

Because I only had to give up 200 shields and 10% weapon damage to get it (10% on the Acolyte is nothing). Slayer lives on his gates... shields are redundant.

...and sometimes... it's just better/safer not to charge.

[Deerber]

Air Quotes wrote...

Deerber - you're not playing at 60 FPS.

But I've played on 60 fps hosts. And I know that if you spam dodge the right way, the marauder's gonna miss. And if he's gonna miss with the slow dodge you get off-host, he's surely gonna miss if you host at 60 fps.

Doesn't mean that at 60 fps getting out of bad situations isn't harder, though.

megabeast37215 wrote...

...and sometimes... it's just better/safer not to charge.

What is this blasphemy? 

Modifié par Deerber, 22 mars 2013 - 09:04 .

[Feneckus]

Drellguard not a good boss killer ?

There's this thing called Claymore. I hear it's quite good 

[megabeast37215]

One day... I'm going to take the time to do multiple quotes. Until then... I'm responding to you in BOLD

Deerber wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

But Drellguards damage output is limited to grenades/weapon... hence... finite sources. He has to goto ammo boxes...

If you're playing with people that might actually manage to outscore you, you'll have to try very hard to finish all your grenades before the game ends - and you won't be able to. If you're playing with people who cannot outscore you (pugs) then using a bit more judgement with your grenades isn't gonna hurt your score much, so no problem. I pretty much agree with this. The only thing that dings your argument is if there are other grenade users in the lobby... with PUGS, that means AUIs.

megabeast37215 wrote...

I agree with you about mooks being the key to high score... but literally every mook in the game besides Phantoms/Possessed Captains gets OSK by a single Acolyte/Charge combo... so every Vanguard can do that.

Mooks, yeah. Subbosses, no. Not all of them. Dragoons/Brutes/Ravagers/Scion do not die from an acolyte/charge combo. And especially Dragoons and Ravagers, they're a score****r's best friends. Those enemies are very easy to kill with multiple PDs... you know this, Dragoons particularly are a complete joke to the Slayer. Ravagers are the easiest of points also.

megabeast37215 wrote...

I COMPLETELY disagree with the "you should not be killing bosses" comment. I don't f**king run away from bosses... what kind of sissy BS is that!?!? I will stand my ground and kick that bosses ass... or die trying. I've gotten so good at killing bosses with him that he is a go-to Platinum kit for me.

Haha I understand and I completely agree :happy:. I'm not saying avoiding bosses is how you should play. I'm saying avoiding bosses is how you should play if all you care about is the score. Cause if you fire on the bosses when there's still other stuff on the map, the guy who's shooting the other stuff will outscore you - if he's good. I honestly don't care if I get outscored by a good player with a weapons class. If he is my equal or better... he should outscore me with a weapons kit. I honestly just attack whatever is in front of me.. or shooting at me.

megabeast37215 wrote...

Concerning Clusters vs PD: I acknowledge that Clusters do more damage than PD... but in addition to cluster being of limited supply... they are much trickier to aim than PD is. PD can be aimed accurately across the map, no problem. You can't do that with clusters.

C'mon Mega... This is the same old argument I see everytime the "lift vs clusters" argument pops out. "But lifts are so much more accurate, you can hit the enemy across the map!".

Yeah, it's true. But you're playing a freakin' Vanguard. Instead of spamming grenades/PD from far away, why don't you charge and then spam grenades/PD in their face? It's much much more effective and fun...

And I'm sure you know that  

Sometimes it's better IMO to start attacking a spawn (of Geth/Collectors particularly) by bombing them with Acolyte/PD from afar... then charging in after you've depleted their numbers. Especially if there are bosses in there too. If I get shot/shield gated... I'll just charge in anyway. I see no point in limiting myself to one particular tactic/moveset... this is why I respecced into Biotic Slash. I want as many tricks at my disposal as possible... with the exception of melee damage. I find it completely redundant. It LOOKS/FEELS extremely cool (especially the heavy melee)... but everything the melee can do, all his other tricks can do better.

[megabeast37215]

Air Quotes wrote...

3 points in BS gives you 20 meters all the same. 

The damage isn't the same... neither are the BEs.

[megabeast37215]

Feneckus wrote...

Drellguard not a good boss killer ?

There's this thing called Claymore. I hear it's quite good 

This is true... for every class. Question though... if you're toting Lord Claymore on him... do you go weapon or power synergy in rank 5 of charge?

I always run the Talon on him.