461 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRageGT]

Maviarab wrote...

awwww cmon Rage..I posted a classic song....timeless...and you posted....well......ohhh man....WHY?

I ain't THAT old!

[Irovagh]

RageGT wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

awwww cmon Rage..I posted a classic song....timeless...and you posted....well......ohhh man....WHY?

I ain't THAT old!

WoW then hell I must be old.

[DragonRageGT]

Irovagh wrote...
WoW then hell I must be old.

Well, I was born a few years after that video was made so I ain't that old... and since my age is the same as my footsize as some wise man said, I must be only 13! :happy:

"This is going nowhere"...(it's a nice song, Mav!)  where's the DLC? DAK? WOGW? IWTP!

[whtnyte-raernst]

Please don't let him shake his lil tush on the catwalk...

[Hellsteeth30]

I'm oldish too, and I'm quite frankly appalled by the treatment of old people on this forum, I'm writing to my MP to have you all shot.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

Please don't let him shake his lil tush on the catwalk...

Okay i think I've come into the wrong thread.  * runs out*

[Eragondragonrider]

Obtusifolius wrote...

whtnyte-raernst wrote...

Please don't let him shake his lil tush on the catwalk...

Whenever I glance at your name I always think it says 'White Supremacist', for some reason

IMAO looks like white racist to me

[Urazz]

Obtusifolius wrote...

Maviarab wrote...


"The Customer is ALWAYS right"......

Have you ever worked in retail? I have, and I can tell you that this wise old man is gravely mistaken. The customer is, more often than not, some thick **** who cannot tell his arse from his* elbow and has never in his life been right about anything ever.

Ahem


*Or her

Yep, I work in retail and for the most part, the unofficial rule is that customers tend to be idiots or too lazy to try to find an item themselves.  There are the rare ones that actually have a good question or are in a rush or something and can't afford to waste time trying to find an item themselves.  Alot of customers don't seem to understand that we have other things to do than pander to them.  But either way you should try to give an answer if there is some sort of problem preventing service.

I pretty much try to be one of those rare customers myself  when shopping and think to myself before asking a question to the employees at a place 'Will this question make me look like an idiot/lazy and waste these people's time?'

Modifié par Urazz, 15 janvier 2010 - 01:59 .

[Eowien Thiele]

Maviarab wrote...

Timurlane,

We get on but seriously, when has good sales had anything to do with business decisions....really...in the real world?

Matter snot, if EA think we can do it better, thats it, bye bye Bio....simple as. Just cos the game sold well, dlc sold well and pre orders on the expandsion are good, means absolutly nothing to the execs at EA who earn more money an year than we will see in a lifetime mate....

bad analogy, and rubbish. Business (high level like that) dont work that way I'm afraid....

I hope I'm very very wrong, but westwood was a very sucessful developer, who's games sold in the millions, EA still cut em loose and left them to rot.

Too true! 

[Aesir Rising]

Mr. Eight wrote...

Aesir Rising wrote...

This isn't open-source WoW addon development, where 'sense of entitlement' is an issue. You're looking to buy (well, borrow through a limited license) something that is advertised as available (or intended to be available within hours). But then it's not available. But then it is available. But then it's not available again. And you're left guessing whether or not one issue on one platform impacts release on your own platform of choice, because there is no communication on the issue.

The only sense of entitlement issue I see is Bioware's expectation of patience.

Issues on one platform affecting another is immaterial. That's just another "MY DLC isn't out yet! I demand answers!" argument like the one Dahelia favors, which are bereft of all logic. When has a software company EVER been specific AND immediate in delivering reasons for delays in release? I hate to say it, but we're lucky we got any news at all. Before the interwebs if software got delayed, you found out about it in the monthly trade publication, and that's if the company decided to issue the update in the first place.

Do you know WHY this is? Because with that knowledge you could do exactly squat about it.

What if they told us it was a problem on one specific platform? Then the other platforms' players would ASPLODE with cries of "THEN JUST RELEASE IT FOR XBOX/PS3/PC PLZ!!!!!' What if it was a bug? Is BioWare going to accept programming help from people on these boards?

They have not announced a specific reason because it would be futile (and, indeed, potentially harmful) to do so.

When I was involved in EVE, CCP was pretty up front and timely re: reporting issues, letting the players know what was going on, and pretty much doing what they could to set expectations.  Your fallacy is assuming that players, because they cannot 'fix' the problem, shouldn't be aware of what's happening.  The desire to obtain two pieces of information:

1) Time to resolution, and
2) Identify the cause of the issue and (more importantly, I suppose) to understand what steps are being taken to prevent repeats of the issue

stem from experience in dealing with developers, either as an end-user or as a liason between IT and end-users.  Those two pieces of information help level out and set expectations.  More often than not, they do a development firm (or any firm providing a product or service) credit.

The idea and objective in communication (in this scenario) is to set customer expectations.  Not look to the community to fix problems that obviously aren't in their control.  Leaving people in the dark is not the solution.  Understand now?

[grieferbastard]

The fundamental problem with trying to educate the consumer is the risk of over-education. I, as a person, am most comfortable in understanding things. Understanding how things work, why things happen, this makes me calm and satisfied. There are a few people on the forums like this - the drive to understand is part of what makes us going to the forums looking for answers.

We are, each and every one of us, freaks.

Most people don't want to understand. If you try and tell them you'll just confuse them. Most businesses that involve customer support track the number of times the same customer calls in over the same issue, or even just calling back within a given interval (72 hours is not uncommon for billing/technical support). One of the largest sources of customers calling back on ANY topic is giving too much information. They leave feeling confused or after chewing on it a bit call back, often with more problems than they had originally, just because they now have a sense of unease over what this new information means. They are never going to understand the details of the industry (computers, software, telecommunications, entertainment, whatever) as well as the employees do. Nor should they have to. Thus they will never have a full and complete enough understanding to truly realize the cause of their issue.

You need to relay the specific details that impact their experience. Be that 'Your services cost $X a month, cover Y and Z, and are due on this date' or 'The release of RtO has been delayed due to technical difficulties. We'll let you know when it's available'.

The reason for this is that something like delaying a release date, repeatedly, is not going to be caused by Jimbo in the mail room. There's not one simple, precise answer about who was responsible. In fact as a business they can't even tell you who was responsible 100% even if they knew - it's a privacy issue. Even if it's not BioWare but a partner company that is responsible they can't point fingers directly because of liability issues.

Most likely it's a variety of things. Even if someone from BioWare came to the forums, disgorged months worth of training and years worth of experience in the game development and marketing field in a peerlessly distilled post and magically invested you with the depth and bredth of knowledge required to truly, truly understand why it was delayed....

It still wouldn't get the game out any quicker. Mostly it would just create more posts of armchair QBing how to develope, market and release games and DLC.

Accept that your desire to understand exactly who to blame and exactly why it was delayed is both atypical for human behavior and unproductive if indulged. Accept that you will never know why it was delayed, nor would knowing help. Accept that shipping delays are an inherent risk to any product/service industry and that they are losing money by delaying its release already - demanding they lose more money to make you happy instead of shipping it flawed and dealing with the fallout (while earning interest on the income its generated) is not reasonable. As with any business accountability for mistakes, especially ones that impact fiscal performance, is without question going to be settled out. Beatings distributed and the wounded bayonetted. None of which will ever be or should ever be discussed with the public.

I'm glad it was delayed. Given the options it's the responsible choice.

[WarlordThor]

grieferbastard wrote...

The fundamental problem with trying to educate the consumer is the risk of over-education. I, as a person, am most comfortable in understanding things. Understanding how things work, why things happen, this makes me calm and satisfied. There are a few people on the forums like this - the drive to understand is part of what makes us going to the forums looking for answers.

We are, each and every one of us, freaks.

Most people don't want to understand. If you try and tell them you'll just confuse them. Most businesses that involve customer support track the number of times the same customer calls in over the same issue, or even just calling back within a given interval (72 hours is not uncommon for billing/technical support). One of the largest sources of customers calling back on ANY topic is giving too much information. They leave feeling confused or after chewing on it a bit call back, often with more problems than they had originally, just because they now have a sense of unease over what this new information means. They are never going to understand the details of the industry (computers, software, telecommunications, entertainment, whatever) as well as the employees do. Nor should they have to. Thus they will never have a full and complete enough understanding to truly realize the cause of their issue.

You need to relay the specific details that impact their experience. Be that 'Your services cost $X a month, cover Y and Z, and are due on this date' or 'The release of RtO has been delayed due to technical difficulties. We'll let you know when it's available'.

The reason for this is that something like delaying a release date, repeatedly, is not going to be caused by Jimbo in the mail room. There's not one simple, precise answer about who was responsible. In fact as a business they can't even tell you who was responsible 100% even if they knew - it's a privacy issue. Even if it's not BioWare but a partner company that is responsible they can't point fingers directly because of liability issues.

Most likely it's a variety of things. Even if someone from BioWare came to the forums, disgorged months worth of training and years worth of experience in the game development and marketing field in a peerlessly distilled post and magically invested you with the depth and bredth of knowledge required to truly, truly understand why it was delayed....

It still wouldn't get the game out any quicker. Mostly it would just create more posts of armchair QBing how to develope, market and release games and DLC.

Accept that your desire to understand exactly who to blame and exactly why it was delayed is both atypical for human behavior and unproductive if indulged. Accept that you will never know why it was delayed, nor would knowing help. Accept that shipping delays are an inherent risk to any product/service industry and that they are losing money by delaying its release already - demanding they lose more money to make you happy instead of shipping it flawed and dealing with the fallout (while earning interest on the income its generated) is not reasonable. As with any business accountability for mistakes, especially ones that impact fiscal performance, is without question going to be settled out. Beatings distributed and the wounded bayonetted. None of which will ever be or should ever be discussed with the public.

I'm glad it was delayed. Given the options it's the responsible choice.

Too bad we don't know the options. If it was not a gamebreaking bug, and was a "quality issue", why are we still waiting? How long does it take to fix a "quality issue" unless it was done plain horribly the first time around. Bioware is a big company, they employ a lot of people. Granted only a handful might be working on this dlc. But unless they have all been out on vacation or working 2 hours a day, I am mystified as to how a "quality issue" has yet to be patched up.

Clearly there is something more going on here. This "quality issue" must be quite large, or there is just very little work being done on it. I think what needs to be understood here is that most everyone in the community, as I have seen, don't much seem to care why it was delayed, they just want to be able to know which reason and anticipate when it will come out. Your better off being straight blunt and honest with gamers than beating around the bush or, and i hope this is not the case, lying.

[Harelda]

grieferbastard wrote...

Words...

Forum name and post do not match up. Please use bad grammar, atrocious spelling and abusive words next time.

 Insightful, and delightfully condescending to boot.

[grieferbastard]

WarlordThor wrote...

grieferbastard wrote...
blah, blah, blah, ramble, ramble...

Too bad we don't know the options. If it was not a gamebreaking bug, and was a "quality issue", why are we still waiting? How long does it take to fix a "quality issue" unless it was done plain horribly the first time around. Bioware is a big company, they employ a lot of people. Granted only a handful might be working on this dlc. But unless they have all been out on vacation or working 2 hours a day, I am mystified as to how a "quality issue" has yet to be patched up.

Clearly there is something more going on here. This "quality issue" must be quite large, or there is just very little work being done on it. I think what needs to be understood here is that most everyone in the community, as I have seen, don't much seem to care why it was delayed, they just want to be able to know which reason and anticipate when it will come out. Your better off being straight blunt and honest with gamers than beating around the bush or, and i hope this is not the case, lying.

See, that's the problem. It's not like people at BioWare are not getting paid by the hour - the longer it takes for a product to begin generating revenue the more it costs them. It's like like a decision to push back shipping/release/whatever is a casual decision. It's not like the dev team woke up the other morning in a half-drunken haze and under a pile of groupies to say 'Whoa, wha, huh? Whuzzit, Monday? Izzit January yet? Hey, dude, get up! Oh crap, RtO has to post TODAY man, TODAY! Huh? No, I don't know where your pants are! Get up man, we gotta code!'

Probably a few different things came together. Maybe it was one thing that was just THAT BAD. We do not know, nor should we have to know, how many people from how many departments and what companies are even fully involved. It's not like they're counting down a space shuttle launch, they're dealing with a technical issue. Generally when setting up for a release you set a date WAY out. Most products (software or otherwise) are finished and ready to roll long, long before their stated release date. Docs to get ready, marketing, etc.

Suppose I asked you to write a report on telephone pole construction and deployment. You could tell me 'I could do it by next week' because you KNOW it won't take that long. What if I wanted it sooner? Six hours? Two? 

At that point I'm trying to force you to manage the quality of your work to fit a time constraint. The truth is, because the solution is not already apparent, you can not accurately predict how long it will take to produce a complete and top-quality report.

Hence, no release date yet. Better to take as long as it takes to get it done right. This may be our enjoyment but it's their money we're talking about. There's no way you or I want to play RtO as much as they want to sell it to us.

As to why... well, back to the original problem of depth of understanding. If they say 'it was a technical issue' than everyone is going to blame anything and everything that happens in their lives for the next 6 months on 'unfixed technical issues in the RtO release'. If they blame content quality people will leap on that and complain about it.

If they identify any specific thing about the DLC before it's released that will impact peoples impression and enjoyment of it. They're smart not to.

Take the time. Do it right. Let me focus on enjoying it when it's out and not worrying about exactly what we're paying BioWare to do - develope and deliver a product.

[PatT2]

Sadly, what I read here got confused really fast. RtO is not what broke the game. It was the "title update" that they sent through xbox live to ostensibly fix an achievement glitch. I didnt' care, because Idon't care about achievements. But now, somtehing that worked yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that, that I paid for, has STOPPED working. It's like having a newish car break down and being told that, well, there's no part available to fix that. You'll just have to live with it.



The thing that broke us wasn't a long-delayed anything it was a "fix" that broke more than it fixed. As someone who didn't buy Rto, but still can no longer have any character specialize, I'm a bit perturbed, considering I could last week. For the same money.

I don't think I'm being too pushy to expect something to keep working.

[Arijharn]

cephasjames wrote...

My all-time favorite game has always been release "When it's ready." The small developer never released it when the fans wanted it released. But it always released it when it was ready. That's all expect from anyone.

:2cents:

So, you're actually still waiting for Duke Nukem Forever?