309 réponses à ce sujet

[hobbit of the shire]

Yes, a slider would be great, for both genders. After all, if you look at athletes, you see them possess all kinds of shapes. Depending on the sport, it requires a certain physique. It would be logical to be able to adjust according to what you think your warrior, rogue and mage should look like. As it is now, both M!Hawke and F!Hawke are skewed. Men are big and muscular. Women look like supermodels. And what's with all the hate about Aveline? Why do people always insult her and call her "mannish"? I thought she was a fine character physically and personality-wise. I personally think some of the men are absurdly buff. I didn't play M!Hawke, but for example my Warden mage was a bit too muscular for a guy stuck in the Circle. Sure, he got quite a workout as the game progressed, but he's not wielding his staff like a greatsword (unlike DA2). At the very least let us have a normal-sized character, who neither looks like a stick nor the Incredible Hulk. A slider should have some more detail, too. I hate sliders that just stretch the texture. No wonder they look horrible. Have a slider for muscle-mass, hip size, waist size, rib size.... I'd rather see that than a slider for tattoos and such. Yeah, this isn't much of a stretch... If you make sliders for eyeshadow, lipstick, etc., you can make one for body size.

[Oberkaiser]

garrusfan1 wrote...

It is harder for women to get the size men do but they can get as strong and they can have decent size muscles. trust me when I say I have seen women like fem hawk size beat guys in arm wrestling that are james form ME3 size and I have seen women fem hawks size squat 400 pounds and out lift many guys that were bigger. basically they have a harder time getting huge but they can and they don't need roids or stuff like that. if they eat enough and work out enough they can get big

This is more anti-science than creationism. Is this what liberals teach their kids? Jesus effing Christ.

[Ninja Stan]

Let's keep the sociopolitical rhetoric out of the discussion, please. We are still talking about a videogame here.

Check out this article, which features images from Schatz and Ornstein's "The Athlete," a visual comparison of male and female athletes from various disciplines. Very different body types, but all are competitive athletes. Some have strong muscle definition, and some do not, and some of the distance runners look positively skeletal.

Sliders for body type could work, but remember that in BioWare games, the characters will be featured in many different cutscenes and dialogues, which need to accommodate every possible size variation. If you have a very short character, for example, you couldn't use the same stage setup or camera angle as you would for a very tall character. If you have a very broad character, you would need the conversation stage set up so that he or she wouldn't block anything important in the scene.

You would also have to be concerned with your animation rigs and whether they would scale up or down properly. A combat move made by a svelte, petite character may look awkward or unrealistic when made by a broad, muscular character, and vice versa.

And while, yes, some people like to do random things with their character appearances (making the ugliest character they can, for example, or hitting the extremes of the various sliders for outrageous combinations), the vast majority of players want a character that either looks good/heroic or best matches their own image of the character they want to play. That means making all of the possible slider positions look good, and in as many combinations as possible. Like any feature where players are asking for more options, that takes a lot of work, not just in development but in testing.

[ReallyRue]

I'd really like a muscle slider for both male and females. Whilst my female characters look overly scrawny sometimes, my male characters sometimes look buff to the point of it being laughable.

[lady_v23]

SheplooX2 wrote...

Topsider wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

The Woldan wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...

Am I supposed to be surprised that BSN regulars don't know that 99% of females can't put on muscle mass naturally, without testosterone and growth hormones?

This is the kind of ignorance I expected to see here.

So, how much practical experience do you have with that subject to back up your claim?

All I can say is that a friend of mine is a hobby athlete (pole vaulting) and she recently started to lift weights (I got her into it) just for the heck of it, she got quite bulky in only a couple of months without taking any kind of hormones or drugs.
And surprisingly enough she still doesn't look like man because her muscles fibers increased in thickness.

I think its funny that people here make ridiculous claims about body shape while having evidently zero experience with sports, weight lifting and the female body.

Exactly this.  Finally someone knows what they're talking about.

A woman typically has two thirds the muscle mass of men. Lack of testosterone makes it very difficult to improve on that. I'm talking "average" here. A man who never uses his muscles; no exercise, low protein diet, etc, would be physically weaker than an athletic woman. As for appearance, I think most female body builders look hideous. So it can be taken to extremes.

the average sedentary male is easily stronger than an athletic woman. most women that are into sports dont really focus on gaining body mass and are relatively small to begin with. healthier however...

Dude, if an average guy wants to beat up a professional female weightlifter.. then I wish him luck.

[lady_v23]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Let's keep the sociopolitical rhetoric out of the discussion, please. We are still talking about a videogame here.

Check out this article, which features images from Schatz and Ornstein's "The Athlete," a visual comparison of male and female athletes from various disciplines. Very different body types, but all are competitive athletes. Some have strong muscle definition, and some do not, and some of the distance runners look positively skeletal.

Sliders for body type could work, but remember that in BioWare games, the characters will be featured in many different cutscenes and dialogues, which need to accommodate every possible size variation. If you have a very short character, for example, you couldn't use the same stage setup or camera angle as you would for a very tall character. If you have a very broad character, you would need the conversation stage set up so that he or she wouldn't block anything important in the scene.

You would also have to be concerned with your animation rigs and whether they would scale up or down properly. A combat move made by a svelte, petite character may look awkward or unrealistic when made by a broad, muscular character, and vice versa.

And while, yes, some people like to do random things with their character appearances (making the ugliest character they can, for example, or hitting the extremes of the various sliders for outrageous combinations), the vast majority of players want a character that either looks good/heroic or best matches their own image of the character they want to play. That means making all of the possible slider positions look good, and in as many combinations as possible. Like any feature where players are asking for more options, that takes a lot of work, not just in development but in testing.

I agree.

[PrinceLionheart]

Eh, I think I don't think they need to go overboard, but a thicker frame (Not Isabela "thick") would be cool. Honestly, Aveline wasn't super buff either. She just had a thick jawline and a male walking animation.

[Steppenwolf]

Compared to FemShep in ME3 SheHawke is a friggin' bodybuilder. That said, a thicker, more substantial body type for female warriors and a slimmer body type for male mages and rogues would be great.

[AshenShug4r]

For females to get real big, they need to be on male hormones. This will blur the line between what is male and what's female. If you want a big + strong female, she's probably going to be carrying a bit of fat.
Make the women a bit thicker if you must, but a 'buff female' requires a little more than a penchant for violence and a big sword.

[Daissran]

I like the idea of having a body and muscle slider. The one in the Sims 3 is good, gives a wide range of body types without height variation.

[aphelion4]

Lady Hawke looks pretty fit to me (toned arms and legs, abs--runners build). Now Femshep on the other hand is scrawny and I laughed my ass off when I saw her punching Vega. Cyborg? Okay, whatever. Still though, I would rather play as a scrawny female than a she-hulk.

I think something like in the Sims would work, a muscle definition slider. I honestly can't see this being too hard to implement.

Edit: ^ beat me to the Sims reference.

Modifié par aphelion4, 24 mars 2013 - 01:35 .

[Nefla]

As a female, I loved female Hawke's body. She looked healthy, fit, feminine, and beautiful. If I were to nitpick I'd say her arms would look better a little thicker and her walk was quite strange. I HATED femshep's body in ME3: she was dumpy, everything was saggy, she had gross saggy boobs and muffin top and yet her neck and arms were stick thin and ridiculous. ME1 and ME2 femshep were not horrible but not anything I'd pick either. They looked like 13 year old Asian girls which is not how I see myself/my characters at all. I also wouldn't want to be forced into a default very muscular or masculine proportioned female body. If it's a choice then awesome, but if it's the only one no thanks! I have a lot of characters in SWTOR and for the females I always pick either body 2 (cultural ideal) or 4 (plump/curvaceous) and have never picked body 1 (skinny, flat chested) or 3 (tall, masculine, muscular).

[aphelion4]

Nefla wrote...

As a female, I loved female Hawke's body. She looked healthy, fit, feminine, and beautiful. If I were to nitpick I'd say her arms would look better a little thicker and her walk was quite strange. I HATED femshep's body in ME3: she was dumpy, everything was saggy, she had gross saggy boobs and muffin top and yet her neck and arms were stick thin and ridiculous. ME1 and ME2 femshep were not horrible but not anything I'd pick either. They looked like 13 year old Asian girls which is not how I see myself/my characters at all. I also wouldn't want to be forced into a default very muscular or masculine proportioned female body. If it's a choice then awesome, but if it's the only one no thanks! I have a lot of characters in SWTOR and for the females I always pick either body 2 (cultural ideal) or 4 (plump/curvaceous) and have never picked body 1 (skinny, flat chested) or 3 (tall, masculine, muscular).

You explained my feelings exactly!  Although I loved Lady Hawke's walk/run. I guess it was a refreshing change from DA:O's Gorilla/erection shuffle and FemShep's...whatever the hell that was.

[Nefla]

aphelion4 wrote...

Nefla wrote...

As a female, I loved female Hawke's body. She looked healthy, fit, feminine, and beautiful. If I were to nitpick I'd say her arms would look better a little thicker and her walk was quite strange. I HATED femshep's body in ME3: she was dumpy, everything was saggy, she had gross saggy boobs and muffin top and yet her neck and arms were stick thin and ridiculous. ME1 and ME2 femshep were not horrible but not anything I'd pick either. They looked like 13 year old Asian girls which is not how I see myself/my characters at all. I also wouldn't want to be forced into a default very muscular or masculine proportioned female body. If it's a choice then awesome, but if it's the only one no thanks! I have a lot of characters in SWTOR and for the females I always pick either body 2 (cultural ideal) or 4 (plump/curvaceous) and have never picked body 1 (skinny, flat chested) or 3 (tall, masculine, muscular).

You explained my feelings exactly!  Although I loved Lady Hawke's walk/run. I guess it was a refreshing change from DA:O's Gorilla/erection shuffle and FemShep's...whatever the hell that was.

Actually yes I did like her walk, it was her run that was weird to me now that I think of it ' (It gave me the impression that she had to get to a bathroom really soon or something lol)

[Ninja Stan]

And we can do without the hyperbole when discussing when talking about what we like and don't like about female avatars, thank you.

[Saibh]

I agree that sometimes, the female PC looks really, really tiny. FemShep was bad about this. When ME2 and ME3 got a dose of badass varren-kicking Shepard, FemShep sometimes looked really goofy going toe-to-toe with krogan and Vega.

Now, I kind of accept it, considering all of Shepard's enhancements...but it's true that it still looks kind of goofy.

Lady Hawke had great stomach tone, but I agree I would like to see a thicker body in general. I think while her body looks appropriately muscular, it doesn't have the correct amount of bulk. This isn't to say female athletes look as bulky as male athletes--this is a misconception. But I do feel like the women in DAII were, for the most part, had exaggeratedly thin bodies. 

I don't think anyone is going to be scared off, BioWare. I feel 99% there will be a great pair of boobies to put in all of your marketing, and that will do its job.

Modifié par Saibh, 24 mars 2013 - 01:57 .

[snackrat]

Muscle bulk is unappealing for a lot of people (though not everyone) - that's where you get Aveline arms from (which I personally, kinda like). Muscle tone is good. Muscle softened with an amount of fat implies both health (women need fat) and strength (dat muscle condition).

Arms with neither far nor muscle are... kinda creepy, imo. Made worse because Bioware isn't shy about putting curves everywhere else, so the arms look like they were stolen from a different body as far as I see.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually fine with Hawke and Shepard's bodies. (Shep's ever increasing boob size and Hawke's swaying hips knocking over passers-by notwithstanding.) It's the arms that look like they're not up to the task.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 24 mars 2013 - 02:27 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

In other words, better character models.

[DreGregoire]

Yeah uh get back to me when you have pictures of soldier's that are as heavily trained as an N7 graduate would be, or a sword swinging soldier. These athletic builds are all fine and good but they are for specific sports. Given the caloric intake that the Mass Effect Universe claims a soldier has people might want to rethink exactly how Shepard would look. Also how has the changes in the human body progressed in all that time? If you can have somebody with Miranda's curves I'm guessing it hasn't changed much. LOL!

Seriously though I am still extremly bothered by the shape of the females in bioware's games, enough that I don't enjoy playing them and I have to struggle to force myself to stare at them for 40 plus hours.

*mutters, "worst examples I've seen ever."*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 24 mars 2013 - 03:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Might be fun creating a Brienne of Tarth, or something. The more customization, the better.

[Karlone123]

All I can think is a body tone option.

[Solmanian]

SheplooX2 wrote...

the average sedentary male is easily stronger than an athletic woman. most women that are into sports dont really focus on gaining body mass and are relatively small to begin with. healthier however...

That just not true . True, I haven't heard of the term "sedentary" before today, but according to wiki it's synonym to "couch potato". 

I'm someone who experienced both perspectives of "fit" (as a soldier in an active combat duty), and "sedentary" (as an unemployed veteran, who spent all his time playing video games. Man, those were good times). Any women who goes to the gym regualry, and excercises on all the stations (not just aerobic, like many women tend to do), is easily stronger than a "sedentary" male.  After years without regular excercise, I started working out again and even the minimum settings were streneus for me.

About the diference between man and women, and the stereotype of man being stronger than women:
You have to understand that women Vs men anatomies are realy different with a much different predesposition. Male body is geared toward "explosive" strength: short bursts of high threshold efforts, like sprinting. Female bodies are geared for endurance: long bouts of low threshold efforts, like a marathon (or being in labor for 37 hours). So will a man usually beat a woman in armwrestiling? sure.
An example of the comparison: lets say an average man and an average woman decide to race eachother. In the first part of the race, the man will get an impressive yield, but in the long range the woman will simply outlast him.
Can we counter this predeposition? ofcourse. Endurance training for man, and strength training for woman are standard in a balanced training regime.

Ninja Sten's pictures also reminded me of something many people amy not be aware of. A recent research showed that despite popular belief, running is a realy bad excercise. Sure it burn fat, but it doesn't build muscle tissue; That's how you get this skeletal bodies.