315 réponses à ce sujet

[InfinitePaths]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

I think what the OP wants is to, if DA:I continues to play Pair the Spares, one (or more) of those spares be interested in someone of the same sex. Which isn't unreasonable to ask!  It's not about a character who runs around yelling "I'M GAY AND I'M PROUD," it's about a companion who shows same sex interest outside of the PC.

Finally someone gets what I want to say.

[Blackrising]

I loved the 'reveal' about Branka in DA:O. It wasn't much, but in comparison the the extreme heteronormativity of most other shows/movies/games, this was an amazing surprise.

So I wouldn't say no to more things like this.

[InfinitePaths]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

This, while of course interesting, might not really matter. What is the difference between a non-romance character who is gay and one that is not? Unless their sexuality plays some role in the story or their character development, then why even bother specifying or even mentioning it?

Why bother giving Aveline a husband?  Two of them, in fact?  Why bother hook up Fenris and Isabela?  Why bother have Sebastian flirt with Bethany?  Why bother have Carver flirt with Merrill?  

I'd argue that for Aveline, that was an important of her character development.  For the others, it was more just for good fun.  Would it have made a difference if instead of Carver flirting with Merrill, it had been Bethany?

The thing is,why does that important character development or just good fun always have to be straight.

[Hazegurl]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

I think what the OP wants is to, if DA:I continues to play Pair the Spares, one (or more) of those spares be interested in someone of the same sex. Which isn't unreasonable to ask!  It's not about a character who runs around yelling "I'M GAY AND I'M PROUD," it's about a companion who shows same sex interest outside of the PC.

\\

Ah, I understand it now. It would be nice to see two male or female companions hook up the same way everyone else hooks up. Like instead of Fenris hooking up with Isabella it could be Isabella and Merrill. I will admit that the default hook up for companions are thos eof the opposite sex.

[xAmilli0n]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

The thing is,why does that important character development or just good fun always have to be straight.

It doesn't have to be.  I'm just saying, other than that brief moment when you go, "Oh, so he's gay," it doesn't change anything.

Maybe I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

Modifié par xAmilli0n, 23 mars 2013 - 09:53 .

[InfinitePaths]

Hazegurl wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

I think what the OP wants is to, if DA:I continues to play Pair the Spares, one (or more) of those spares be interested in someone of the same sex. Which isn't unreasonable to ask!  It's not about a character who runs around yelling "I'M GAY AND I'M PROUD," it's about a companion who shows same sex interest outside of the PC.

Ah, I understand it now. It would be nice to see two male or female companions hook up the same way everyone else hooks up. Like instead of Fenris hooking up with Isabella it could be Isabella and Merrill. I will admit that the default hook up for companions are thos eof the opposite sex.

 the community is finally starting to realise what I'm trying to say.

[InfinitePaths]

xAmilli0n wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

The thing is,why does that important character development or just good fun always have to be straight.

It doesn't have to be.  I'm just saying, other than that brief moment when you go, "Oh, so he's gay," it doesn't change anything.

Maybe I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

Yeah but still,it's like saying we don't need black people in a game becouse,oh he's black that doesn't change anything.I think we SHOULD have represented minorities in games.

[InfinitePaths]

EntropicAngel wrote...

legbamel wrote...

Shall we go 'round the "Wade and Herren are gay", "You can't prove that" merry-go-round again?

For the record, I fall on the "yes, they are" side.

As I understand it, Gaider has stated that they're gay.

I'm talikng about the companions,not some optional chars with 10 lines

[Harle Cerulean]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

This, while of course interesting, might not really matter. What is the difference between a non-romance character who is gay and one that is not? Unless their sexuality plays some role in the story or their character development, then why even bother specifying or even mentioning it?

Why bother giving Aveline a husband?  Two of them, in fact?  Why bother hook up Fenris and Isabela?  Why bother have Sebastian flirt with Bethany?  Why bother have Carver flirt with Merrill?  

I'd argue that for Aveline, that was an important of her character development.  For the others, it was more just for good fun.  Would it have made a difference if instead of Carver flirting with Merrill, it had been Bethany?

Ask yourself that question.  Would it have made a difference?  If you're trying to tell me the answer is no and therefore I shouldn't care, then why shouldn't it be Bethany?

Part of it is an issue of being told, but not shown.  We're told that Thedas is more open to homosexuality, but we see relatively few characters outside of the LIs who show same-sex interest. If a companion does, it's always an LI - and always in the past, never the present.  Zevran flirts a little with Alistair, but it very much has the air of 'teasing the straight boy,' not serious flirting, and if offered the chance to foursome with Alistair, the Warden, and Isabela, Zevran turns it down... when he won't turn down any of the other combinations with Isabela, so clearly Alistair is the factor there that makes him not want to join.

Leliana joining the Warden with Isabela is about as close as we come to present same sex interest, and frankly, that scene very much plays into the straight boy fantasy of sleeping with two women at once.  It's not about their attraction to each other.  Isbela in DA2 talking about how she likes women is also relatively close, but we don't see her seriously flirt with any women besides f!Hawke, either.

In short, we see a rather heteronormative picture, outside of the LIs attraction to the PC.  There's a few gay or lesbian couples scattered here and there in DA:O, and in DA2 the only non-heteronormative couple I recall seeing is Bran and Seredipity.

So yeah, where's the harm in a little bit of that side flirting being same sex?  It's not 'pandering' to show something that's supposedly in the world. If they're doing it between a bunch of straight couples, what's wrong with asking that there be one that isn't straight?

[xAmilli0n]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Yeah but still,it's like saying we don't need black people in a game becouse,oh he's black that doesn't change anything.I think we SHOULD have represented minorities in games.

While I agree with you, I think sexuality it a little trickier as its not something openly visable, but I guess what you are asking for is BW to make it clear that one of the companions is gay.  I guess at the end of the day, I'm fine with that.  They did with Sam and Steve in ME3, and I was pleased with both.

[mickey111]

EntropicAngel wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

No. you don't.

Lol. In all seriousness, the BSN did used to be better about this stuff.

Hey, remember when people figured out how to mod BGII and add characters and dialgoues and ****? Guess what one of the first mods was.

Kelsey is a brand-new, 100% original NPC for Baldur's Gate 2. Kelsey
adds dozens of inter-party banters with all your favorite characters:
Imoen, Jan, Minsc, Viconia, and more, as well as hundreds of new lines
of quest interjections and advice dialogue. Kelsey comes with his own
new magic items, both powerful and unusual, and the mod includes
hundreds of lines of new voiced dialogue from Kelsey and his new friends
 and adversaries.

Players searching for an alternative to Anomen for their female PCs can
point them to Kelsey, who will eagerly embrace them. Alternatively,
Kelsey will court and be courted by Imoen during Throne of Bhaal. Even
without a romance, Kelsey adds substantial depth and significant new
content to the game as he interacts with his fellow party members and
the world around him, from Guildmistress Busya and Renal Bloodscalp to
Irenicus himself.

Character Sketch: Kelsey is a good-hearted young man, who has traveled
far and wide across the lands of Faerun in his capacity as merchant and
occasional adventurer. While trade is his profession, sorcery is his
gift, but he has serious doubts about himself and the control he has
over his spellcasting. Even in a realm of magic, sorcery is looked upon
suspiciously, and Kelsey has had a difficult time reconciling his
talents with the unexplained death of his father and the subsequent slow
 disintegration of his relationship with his family.

Romance highlights: Kelsey is intrigued by a woman whose powers and
talents are even more impressive and mysterious than his own. While not
perfect, he tries in his own way to see to her needs and understand who
she is, even though he must deal with his own insecurities about his
role in her life. As the romance progresses he gains both power and
confidence, actually trying to “out-sell” the offer his lover receives
of ascending to ultimate power in Throne of Bhaal. The Kelsey/PC romance
 also includes dozens of short interludes (flirts), both
Kelsey-initiated and PC-initiated, which add spice and flavor to the
relationship in-between the more weighty conversations. Flavors... like
honey. Kelsey and Anomen also have a critically-acclaimed series of
arguments for the PC’s affections in Shadows of Amn, but even if you
choose Kelsey, Anomen may press his case further during Throne of
Bhaal...

Kelsey brings everything you would expect from a Bioware NPC, along with
 new twists the creative team and fans have come up with since the
initial release of the mod in April 2002.

Explain to me how Biowares fans weren't always the way that they are.

[.shea.]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

Leliana and Marjolaine doesn't count then (both in vanilla DA:O and Leliana's Song)? She mentions their (past) relationship whether you romance her or not.

[xAmilli0n]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Ask yourself that question.  Would it have made a difference?  If you're trying to tell me the answer is no and therefore I shouldn't care, then why shouldn't it be Bethany?

Part of it is an issue of being told, but not shown.  We're told that Thedas is more open to homosexuality, but we see relatively few characters outside of the LIs who show same-sex interest. If a companion does, it's always an LI - and always in the past, never the present.  Zevran flirts a little with Alistair, but it very much has the air of 'teasing the straight boy,' not serious flirting, and if offered the chance to foursome with Alistair, the Warden, and Isabela, Zevran turns it down... when he won't turn down any of the other combinations with Isabela, so clearly Alistair is the factor there that makes him not want to join.

Leliana joining the Warden with Isabela is about as close as we come to present same sex interest, and frankly, that scene very much plays into the straight boy fantasy of sleeping with two women at once.  It's not about their attraction to each other.  Isbela in DA2 talking about how she likes women is also relatively close, but we don't see her seriously flirt with any women besides f!Hawke, either.

In short, we see a rather heteronormative picture, outside of the LIs attraction to the PC.  There's a few gay or lesbian couples scattered here and there in DA:O, and in DA2 the only non-heteronormative couple I recall seeing is Bran and Seredipity.

So yeah, where's the harm in a little bit of that side flirting being same sex?  It's not 'pandering' to show something that's supposedly in the world. If they're doing it between a bunch of straight couples, what's wrong with asking that there be one that isn't straight?

As a mentioned a few posts up, I see no harm in it at all.  I enjoyed have Sam and Steve in ME3.  My initial point was that for story purposes it really doesn't change much.  I'm definitely all for it, and was simply making a counterpoint.

[InfinitePaths]

Chouan wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

Leliana and Marjolaine doesn't count then (both in vanilla DA:O and Leliana's Song)? She mentions their (past) relationship whether you romance her or not.

Leliana is openly BI.

[Wulfram]

LTD wrote...

I remember a time when fans of Bioware RPGs weren't mostly focused on features having to do with sex, romance and cameltoe DLC gear.

Since you have a BG1 avatar, you may just about be telling the truth.

[TuringPoint]

I think this is a good idea.

[Harle Cerulean]

Chouan wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I think the base of the request here is that when a party member has a relationship outside of the main character, it has always been straight. e.g. Aveline and her two husbands, Fenris and Isabela, Carver flirting with Merrill, Sebastian flirting with Bethany... you get the picture. DA:O had less of this, but in the Darkspawn Chronicles, Alistair and Leliana get together.

Leliana and Marjolaine doesn't count then (both in vanilla DA:O and Leliana's Song)? She mentions their (past) relationship whether you romance her or not.

See my post a little bit above a little bit?  This is the "always an LI and always in the past" thing I was talking about.  I'd like to think it's not just there to 'justify' her interest in an f!Warden, but it certainly seems to have worked that way, given how many fewer people you hear complain about Leliana being bi than complain about Merrill being bi.

[mickey111]

I don't know, the pocket plane list of romancable NPCs is rather impressive in size and scope.

[Harle Cerulean]

EntropicAngel wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

Explain to me how Biowares fans weren't always the way that they are.

I said "better," not that they weren't this way. It wasn't the sole focus.

Yes, obviously we're all just driven by our gonads, here.    It couldn't possibly be because with no information, we discuss what we feel like discussing, and while for some people that's mechanics, for other people, it's character and story related issues that have significance to us!  No, that would be silly.

Make a thread on puzzles in DA:I and I'll be there, because you can never have too many puzzles in a game.  But for the most part, I trust the devs to make mechanics I'm happy with, so, you know, I don't care about discussing that.

[Harle Cerulean]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...


See my post a little bit above a little bit?  This is the "always an LI and always in the past" thing I was talking about.  I'd like to think it's not just there to 'justify' her interest in an f!Warden, but it certainly seems to have worked that way, given how many fewer people you hear complain about Leliana being bi than complain about Merrill being bi.

As I understand it, Merrill isn't bisexual--she's playersexual. I may be wrong, and that's a path I don't want to take us down, but i had to state it.

Given the thread that just happened in which Gaider directly stated that the characters don't change their sexuality, only your perspective/what you see changes...  She may not be 'bisexual' as we label it (maybe she's elvensexual but Hawke is her exception no matter Hawke's sex, who knows!), but she doesn't change staight/lesbian, either.

Modifié par Harle Cerulean, 23 mars 2013 - 10:22 .

[InfinitePaths]

To get this topic back on track,we are disscussing that in the Dragon Age universe there is too little openly gay characters,couples and no openly gay companion.