315 réponses à ce sujet

[Ferretinabun]

ForThessia wrote...

Is it just me, or does every other thread on here have the words "Gay", "Homosexual", "Straight", "Bisexual", etc plastered all over them now?

Meh, what else are we going to wildly speculate on? It's not like we have any actual details for DA:I to chew over for the next few months... sadly.

But back on topic...

Wade and Herren? Anders and Karl? Branka and (Layrn... IIRC)? Leliana and Marjolaine... and Isabela? Plenty of gay NPC relationships.

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 24 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[TheBlackAdder13]

Oberkaiser wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Are you suggesting gay people base their identities around their sexual preferences? The reason why "openly straight" doesn't make sense to you is because it's more commonly know by another term: the majority of every day life (--and really what do you mean "every time I read this?" -- where else have you heard it -- HeroicGreyWarden is the only person I've ever seen phrase it that way). You're wired to think that being straight is normal, or the rule, and being gay is abnormal, or the exception and thus, being openly gay means openly being abnormal or openly being an exception so, in the minds of most people, that's what gets signalled out. You hardly have to be "openly normal," do you? We call this heterosexual privilege. I hope you enjoy it.

When two people meet they generally don't assume anything about the other person's orientation or assume they're straight as a placeholder (after all, 99% of the world's population is straight). Close friends can go for years without knowing each other's sexual preferences, simply because it doesn't come up in day to day conversation. That's basically what being normal is about, gay or straight. Having a multifaceted personality that doesn't reduce every topic to their pet social issue.

*an estimated 90% of the world's population is straight (there, I fixed your baseless statistic for you) 

And as a matter of fact, people do tend to assume things about other's sexualities, maybe not as much now as times are changing but when a lot of straight people meet someone, they automatically default and assume they're straight. That's what heteronormativism is. You just said "after all, 99% of the population is striaght (a clearly bumped up percentage to suit your own purposes), and are thus (innaccurately) assuming that 99 out of 100 people you meet are straight. 

There was nothing in the post about taking away "multifacted personalites" from gay characters, quite the opposite obviously. You however, are the one trying to do that when you said "straight people don't base their identities around their sexual preferences," implying that gay people do base their identiteis around their sexual preferences. Your response to my post indicated that that is indeed how you feel and you trivilize being gay to "some pet social issue" (because, it's not like society has continually repressed and persecuted LGBT individuals, it's just a pet social issue after all). I don't even know why I'm responding to this as your argument is barely coherent and you clearly have some issues to work out. 

ETA: Volus' flambooyancy comment has been responded to by others so I'm not even going to get started on that one. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 24 mars 2013 - 01:01 .

[Oberkaiser]

7 to 10 percent of men and 6 to 7 percent of women in developed countries (USA, Britain and France) have reported having a sexual experience with a member of the same sex at least once in their lifetime.

One, people fool around and explore themselves in college. Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population. So the worldwide statistic is, in fact, over 99% straight.

I assume the OP wasn't asking for someone who talks with a lisp but rather an interesting character who happens to be gay. Now, this is a long shot, but if Gaider and his team actually manage to write a compelling character, I don't see a reason why they should be identified as gay or straight. Instead such details should be deferred to the player's imagination (or "headcanon", as some regulars here like to call it).

I'm just going to say this again because I don't think my point is getting across: normal people do not base their identities around any single thing, much less something as private as their sexual preferences.

[brushyourteeth]

Oberkaiser wrote...

Every time I read something like this I try to imagine what openly straight would look like and it doesn't make any sense. Straight people don't base their identities around their sexual preferences.

I do.

I have a lot of gay acquaintances and end up spending a pretty sad amount of time with them defending my straight-ness.

But my experience isn't everyone's. And what I've discovered is that there are a lot of folks who will say "sexuality has no effect on personality/behavior/character." And then there are folks (both straight and gay) who will say "Nope. I'd say my sexuality is a pretty big part of me and my life and it would be hard for me to classify anyone as a close friend without them being familiar with that part of me."

So I think both are valid. It doesn't mean our companions *need* to "act gay" or "act straight" or declare anything. But at a certain point in your relationship with them, I could see it being valuable to have that conversation with some of them (even if in Thedas that rarely constitutes a serious, uncomfortable, sit-down experience). Because it's human nature to want to be known. And in a culture where gay doesn't = shameful, why is it that literally no one (except Gamlen - ugh) will ever talk about it?

Not super fussed either way. Just don't understand the thinking.

[TheBlackAdder13]

One, people fool around and explore themselves in college. Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population. So the worldwide statistic is, in fact, over 99% straight.

Does the phrase "being in the closet mean anything to you?" You do realize it's possible to be gay and in the closet, right? Hence he lower rates of out gay people in developing countries which tend to be more homophobic.

I'm just going to say this again because I don't think my point is getting across: normal people do not base their identities around any single thing

This is a useless statement because no one in this thread was implying or saying otherwise. Until you heavily implied that gay people base their identities around them being gay.

much less something as private as their sexual preferences.

What do you mean by this? Do you mean stating what position they like in bed, for example? Or do you simply mean stating "I'm into men/women?" If it's the latter people do that all the time and there's nothing odd or abnormal about it since it's you know, basic social interaction.

[Plaintiff]

Oberkaiser wrote...
Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population.

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

[snackrat]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

=Varric was openly straight(he said he had a girl before Bianca)

Inconclusive evidence.

Correct.

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Aveliene was openly straight(Donnic and Weasly)

Inconclusive evidence

Correct.

Pasquale1234 wrote...

Oghren was openly straight(Branka)

Inconclusive evidence.

I... can't agree with this one. Interest in Branka (and Branka/Hespith), interest in Felsi, interest in Sigrun, and have you tried anything remotely flirty, in a joking capacity, as broWarden? Yeah, he doesn't take it well at all.

EDIT: People are generally assumed straight unless proven otherwise, thanks to hetero being the majority. If one guy says he likes one other guy, he is automatically assumed to be gay. He says it openly, he is called openly gay. (Sadly, pan/bisexuality and asexuality are oft overlooked - people still think it is a binary option)
So... one guy openly liking one guy is 'openly gay' but one guy liking three/four gals and NOT liking guys is not 'openly straight'?

Modifié par Karsciyin, 24 mars 2013 - 02:22 .

[aphelion4]

Plaintiff wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...
Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population.

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

^ This

Yeah I'm going to stay out of this discussion, but I just have to say...I wouldn't take those statistics seriously (about second and third world countries having lower percentages of homosexuals). KNOWN, CONFIRMED? Sure, maybe that's accurate. But in a lot of those countries they are condemned to death for being gay so a lot of them have to be discrete.

[InfinitePaths]

Plaintiff wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...
Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population.

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

this

[InfinitePaths]

Oberkaiser wrote...

7 to 10 percent of men and 6 to 7 percent of women in developed countries (USA, Britain and France) have reported having a sexual experience with a member of the same sex at least once in their lifetime.

One, people fool around and explore themselves in college. Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population. So the worldwide statistic is, in fact, over 99% straight.

I assume the OP wasn't asking for someone who talks with a lisp but rather an interesting character who happens to be gay. Now, this is a long shot, but if Gaider and his team actually manage to write a compelling character, I don't see a reason why they should be identified as gay or straight. Instead such details should be deferred to the player's imagination (or "headcanon", as some regulars here like to call it).

I'm just going to say this again because I don't think my point is getting across: normal people do not base their identities around any single thing, much less something as private as their sexual preferences.

You do realise that there are gay people that are closeted and lie in these statistics?

[Plaintiff]

aphelion4 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...
Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population.

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

^ This

Yeah I'm going to stay out of this discussion, but I just have to say...I wouldn't take those statistics seriously (about second and third world countries having lower percentages of homosexuals). KNOWN, CONFIRMED? Sure, maybe that's accurate. But in a lot of those countries they are condemned to death for being gay so a lot of them have to be discrete.

Well, in Oberkaiser's defence, killing them all would result in a lower percentage. 

[Nightdragon8]

openly straight.... soo there is closet straight people?? like people who act gay but are really straight...

honestly as for avaline she sort of became a substitute father for the Hawkes.

[Volus Warlord]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

openly straight.... soo there is closet straight people?? like people who act gay but are really straight...

honestly as for avaline she sort of became a substitute father for the Hawkes.

They are actually multi-closeted. 

[brushyourteeth]

Plaintiff wrote...

aphelion4 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...
Two, second and third world countries have a considerably lower percentage of homosexuals in the population.

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

^ This

Yeah I'm going to stay out of this discussion, but I just have to say...I wouldn't take those statistics seriously (about second and third world countries having lower percentages of homosexuals). KNOWN, CONFIRMED? Sure, maybe that's accurate. But in a lot of those countries they are condemned to death for being gay so a lot of them have to be discrete.

Well, in Oberkaiser's defence, killing them all would result in a lower percentage. 

this is so

[Karlone123]

Reading the first few posts pretty much ensures this thread has gone downhill with a high chance of LOCKDOWN, I would think.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

mickey111 wrote...

No. you don't.

Lol. In all seriousness, the BSN did used to be better about this stuff.

No it didn't. This is the BSN talking about a game about which there's literally nothing to talk. All we have are rumors about companions and a confirmation about race restrictions. All discussion about the universe instead pertains to previous DA games because this game hasn't said anything, because the game doesn't yet exist.

[Oberkaiser]

Plaintiff wrote...

L-O-L

I wouldn't be gay either, if I lived in a country where it could get me publicly executed.

You realize not every country is Uganda, right? There are many second and third world countries, like the ones left after the fall of the Soviet Union for example, where there is no overt homophobia and the percentage of homosexuals in the population is still lower than developed countries. 

This is a useless statement because no one in this thread was implying or saying otherwise. Until you heavily implied that gay people base their identities around them being gay.

How do you explain the prevalence of these threads then? People don't just want interesting characters, they want characters of a specific sexual orientation. In fact, the word "interesting" seldom appears in discussion at all. They want characters whose defining feature is their homosexuality. 

Modifié par Oberkaiser, 24 mars 2013 - 08:37 .

[BeatoSama]

No overt homophobia in the countries left after Soviet?
Many of the eastern european countries are terribly racist and homophobic.
There have been essays published recently about the homophobia in eastern europe, its a known problem.

[Xilizhra]

like the ones left after the fall of the Soviet Union for example, where there is no overt homophobia

Orthodox nations tend to be pretty damned homophobic, Russia especially. Not generally to the murderous extent that Uganda is, but gay rights and acceptance are only ever approaching decent in much of Western Europe, parts of the US, and a few odd anomalies like South Africa.

How do you explain the prevalence of these threads then? People don't just want interesting characters, they want characters of a specific sexual orientation. In fact, the word "interesting" seldom appears in discussion at all. They want characters whose defining feature is their homosexuality.

Asking for interesting characters is redundant because everyone wants one anyway. What I think the topic here is going for is someone like Samantha or Steve from ME3, where they don't define anything by it but also don't hide it, and it happens to come up.

[weaselshep]

I agree because I don't want to have to be an ass to a character just to keep them from trying to get together with my character.
Anders was a perfect example. No matter which gender I played he was trying to hook up.

[Ageless Face]

In DA2 everyone were pretty much openly bi. Except for maybe Varric, but he also ain't exactly straight too (unless you count a piece of wood as a woman...)

Besides, unless the character is romanceble I don't see any reason why his/her sex prefrences should come in a conversation.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 24 mars 2013 - 12:27 .

[iOnlySignIn]

HagarIshay wrote...

Unless the character is romanceble I don't see any reason why his/her sex prefrences should come in a conversation.

Exactly. This is why what OP is asking for is kind of absurd.

For example in DA2. Do you know if Aveline is bisexual? You don't. She doesn't tell you. 

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 24 mars 2013 - 12:52 .

[mousestalker]

So this is who the OP wants as a companion? I have no problem with that.

[Ridwan]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Oberkaiser wrote...

Every time I read something like this I try to imagine what openly straight would look like and it doesn't make any sense. Straight people don't base their identities around their sexual preferences.

I do.

I have a lot of gay acquaintances and end up spending a pretty sad amount of time with them defending my straight-ness.

Hold on, hold on. You have to defend that you prefer women?