315 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

Its not a bad idea, as long as its incidental to the story arc of the character.

[JorieSilver]

Oberkaiser wrote...


Perhaps you don't understand the difference between "intended purpose" and "acceptable deviation". Because modern science knows plenty about the human body's intended purpose, and let me tell you right away - being able and willing to procreate with the opposite sex is part of it. If you feel offended by that or feel like that needs to be censored, I have some bad news about you and the company you work for.

I'd also like to also chime in here, and say that you really don't understand "modern science." "Modern science" *does* know a whole lot about "the human body's intended purpose." Thus it knows that our bodies cannot be boiled down to simple breeding machines--we're social creatures, after all, and not by accident. We're social because we are biologically programmed to be, and thus selective pressures take into account the continuation of the social group, not just the individual. 

 Being able and willing to procreate is likely *not* a thing that is desirable in every single human being on the planet--population control is a pretty good guess as to why, especially since there is some evidence that a man is more likely to be homosexual if he has older brothers--and the more older brothers he has, the more likely he is to be gay. (Not to say first sons can't be gay--like nearly all things in biology, it's all about probability.)

I can guarantee you that if homosexuality were outside the realm of "acceptable deviation" for our species, it wouldn't be nearly as prevalant as it is.  In fact, if it didn't provide some form of advantage, there would be a lot less of it floating around. No genetically based defect would be passed down with as great a frequency as homosexuality in our species (I believe the estimate is about 1/10). So, homosexual individuals rest easy: you are not broken. This guy just has no idea what he's talking about.

Modifié par UndergoingMitosis, 25 mars 2013 - 10:34 .

[Ferretinabun]

Dang,

nvm

Modifié par Ferretinabun, 25 mars 2013 - 02:34 .

[Cirram55]

Wolfva2 wrote...
Anyways, all this talk about whether or not homosexuality is natural... dang city folk. Wanna know if it's natural? Go watch what happens when dogs get horny and there aren't any of the opposite sex (or human legs) around. Or just about any other mammal for that matter.

My, that was... vivid. Guess I really am a city person.
I wouldn't necessarily call that homosexuality, it's more like a sexually frustrated dog who doesn't happen to be picky. But I get the gist of what you're saying, and I agree that sexuality, whether human or not, is much more complex than a binary spectrum.

[Pierce Miller]

What about an Asexual companion? Who doesn't care......Kind of like me

[Chiramu]

How about companions that are characters who are just normal characters? Sexual preferences should not dictate how a character is written, sexual preferences come when the character is developing, when the character has substance.

Going into developing a character and putting restraints on them, "right, one is gay, one is bi and one is straight" really hinders the creative process. If a companion character turns out to be homosexual good for them, but you shouldn't go in thinking, "NO, THIS CHARACTER MUST BE GAY!"

[Senya]

^^
Edit: I couldn't agree more.

Foshizzlin wrote...

We don't need contrived appeasements. There should be no "minimum" number of straight, bi, or gay characters. Just make personalities, make characters think and feel the way they want. Bioware shouldn't feel a need to make a certain number of sexually-oriented characters.

I agree with this. As appealing as quotas are, I think they stifle creativity. I want well-written characters, not pandering to groups of people like it's an election season. (And I say this as someone with a gay brother).

Modifié par almostinsane99, 09 avril 2013 - 11:35 .

[Chchchchicken]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Some cultures worshiped homosexual people,like the Native Americans,do you want Thedas to be like that?

A little off topic, but...which cultures? (Not trying to troll you, I am genuinely curious----->History Buff).

Also, if the writers decide to do that, why the hell not?

[The Six Path of Pain]

 Does this seriously even matter! <_<

[Babaganoosh013]

It would seem kind of strange to me if you were male, had a gay companion, went on all sorts of adventures with him, been nice to him, have a very high friendship with him, flirted with him, and he didn't reciprocate unless he had him eye on someone else ala Aveline.

But that would be up to the writers.

Possibly bad tangent here, but how about bringing back DAO's approve/disapprove wording to discribe things, but keep DA2's rivalry/friendship system where they don't leave you? To me, the word "rivalry" is used to describe something like Oilers vs. Flames, Canadiens vs. Bruins, Yankees vs. Red Sox ect... I think that's why I objected to the rivalry points that I got from turning down Anders (and possibly Fenris as well.)

Meanwhile, it was perfectly acceptable to have Zevran "disapprove" when I turned him down. It made sense. He didn't hate me like a rival for turning him down, just disappointed.

Something to possibly mull over for the next game. Tangent over.

[Lluthren]

1 in 10 (or 8) people are gay, right? So there's plenty of room for a gay or two. I don't see a problem with it as long as being gay is not the only thing about the character. It's not like they'll force you to be gay with them, that's just awkward. We could always use a sassy gay friend.

I'd support a gay LI too. All the LI's in DA were either straight or bi, that just seems a little bit off after about 11 followers. Probably would be a woman though, it's often a woman, just count the lesbian romances as opposed to the male homosexual romances in Mass Effect.

If there isn't a gay in DAI however, i really wouldn't care, i probably wouldn't notice if there was either. I didn't even think about Wade untill somebody mentioned it.

[Zeldrik1389]

I don't see the problem with gay / lesbian LI, but they gotta do it right. I have friends who are like that, and they mostly discreet about their love life. It's not that they feel bad or anything, they are happy with it, and we accept them for who they are. But they just don't go around screaming "Hey I'm gay / Lesbian" etc. Traynor in ME 3 was a bit over the roof imo, since in her very first scene, she basically yell "I'm lesbian" to my face with her comment about EDI voice. It just sounded too ... forced, and unreal to me. So if they make gay / lesbian LI, at least do it with better consideration.

[sandalisthemaker]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I don't see the problem with gay / lesbian LI, but they gotta do it right. I have friends who are like that, and they mostly discreet about their love life. It's not that they feel bad or anything, they are happy with it, and we accept them for who they are. But they just don't go around screaming "Hey I'm gay / Lesbian" etc. Traynor in ME 3 was a bit over the roof imo, since in her very first scene, she basically yell "I'm lesbian" to my face with her comment about EDI voice. It just sounded too ... forced, and unreal to me. So if they make gay / lesbian LI, at least do it with better consideration.

What would you suggest then?
Seriously? Traynor wasn't  yelling "I'm a lesbian!"  She was commenting that she found EDI's voice attractive. Why is that "forced?" It's simply a hint to the player that she may find women attractive.  The player can then find out more by flirting with her etc.
Had she been a guy, would you have considered that to be yelling "I'm straight!!"? 
No, you would probably just see it as a guy commenting that he finds EDI's voice attractive.

[Plaintiff]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

I don't see the problem with gay / lesbian LI, but they gotta do it right. I have friends who are like that, and they mostly discreet about their love life. It's not that they feel bad or anything, they are happy with it, and we accept them for who they are. But they just don't go around screaming "Hey I'm gay / Lesbian" etc. Traynor in ME 3 was a bit over the roof imo, since in her very first scene, she basically yell "I'm lesbian" to my face with her comment about EDI voice. It just sounded too ... forced, and unreal to me. So if they make gay / lesbian LI, at least do it with better consideration.

"It's okay to have gay characters, they just can't express their sexuality ever."

[New Display Name]

Traynor calling EDI's voice attractive was certainly better than almost anything Kenneth said.

[In Exile]

sandalisthemaker wrote...
What would you suggest then?
Seriously? Traynor wasn't  yelling "I'm a lesbian!"  She was commenting that she found EDI's voice attractive. Why is that "forced?" It's simply a hint to the player that she may find women attractive.  The player can then find out more by flirting with her etc.
Had she been a guy, would you have considered that to be yelling "I'm straight!!"? 
No, you would probably just see it as a guy commenting that he finds EDI's voice attractive.

I didn't even realizeTraynor wasn't straight my first time through ME3 - she doesn't tip you off at all, and saying EDI's voice is attractive to me was like someone saying James Earl Jones has an awesome voice. It doesn't mean you want to sex him up, it just means you find the voice awesome. 

[sandalisthemaker]

In Exile wrote...

I didn't even realizeTraynor wasn't straight my first time through ME3 - she doesn't tip you off at all, and saying EDI's voice is attractive to me was like someone saying James Earl Jones has an awesome voice. It doesn't mean you want to sex him up, it just means you find the voice awesome. 

 Which proves my point. Traynor isn't screaming she's a lesbian at the top of her lungs.
It's just a subtle hint to the player. Not "forced" at all.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 19 avril 2013 - 12:22 .

[Shawn Marrster]

Gay companions.. OK. But let it be a RPG. Let me kill the gay companion without "punishment" from the game.

One of the more fun aspects of RPGs are doing things that are not Political Correct. In Mass Effect my Shepard was a "racist" that put humanity before all other species. Loved to kill the council, put in Udina as the chancellor, military rule, help Cerberus fight of alien life.

In Oblivion Knight of the nine: I refused to knight any non-white person.

Give me the freedom to be "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" in an RPG.

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

[mllrthyme]

If they are not an LI, it's their character/personality that should matter, not their sexual orientation.

[sandalisthemaker]

Shawn Marrster wrote...

Gay companions.. OK. But let it be a RPG. Let me kill the gay companion without "punishment" from the game.

One of the more fun aspects of RPGs are doing things that are not Political Correct. In Mass Effect my Shepard was a "racist" that put humanity before all other species. Loved to kill the council, put in Udina as the chancellor, military rule, help Cerberus fight of alien life.

In Oblivion Knight of the nine: I refused to knight any non-white person.

Give me the freedom to be "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" in an RPG.

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

No.
The examples you mentioned are all your characters being racist and homophobic in *your* *head cannon*, (and also says quite a bit about you as an individual).  None of those games are explicitly allowing you to be a bigot.
The option should never be allowed for the PC to explicitly be racist (against other humans, since asari, krogans, etc don't exist IRL which nullifies your ME example) or homophobic as a story element.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 19 avril 2013 - 01:43 .

[Plaintiff]

Shawn Marrster wrote...

Gay companions.. OK. But let it be a RPG. Let me kill the gay companion without "punishment" from the game.

One of the more fun aspects of RPGs are doing things that are not Political Correct. In Mass Effect my Shepard was a "racist" that put humanity before all other species. Loved to kill the council, put in Udina as the chancellor, military rule, help Cerberus fight of alien life.

In Oblivion Knight of the nine: I refused to knight any non-white person.

Give me the freedom to be "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" in an RPG.

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

You want to roleplay as a violent, racist homophobe (not that you need to fake it), but gay characters aren't allowed to dislike you?

You get rivalry points with every character every time you say something that they don't like. What the hell were you expecting?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 19 avril 2013 - 01:42 .

[Babaganoosh013]

Shawn Marrster wrote...

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

How did you feel about the points you lost turning Zevran down (assuming you played a male warden)? Turning him down nicely in many different ways would lose you anywhere between 3 and 10 points. More extreme measures would result in 15 or 20 points lost.

I was in the same boat too about turning down Anders with the points we lost. However, one night out of the blue while at work I realized I never thought twice about it with Zevran. It made sense with him. I think my problem was with the vocabulary. -10 disapproves sounds a lot different than -10 rivalry. Disapproves sounds like "Oh darn!" Rivalry sounds like "I hate you!"

It might have also had something to do with the timing of showing the points as well.

EDITed for a spelling mistake.

Modifié par Babaganoosh013, 19 avril 2013 - 01:57 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Babaganoosh013 wrote...

Shawn Marrster wrote...

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

How did you feel about the points you lost turning Zevran down (assuming you played a male warden)? Turning him down nicely in many different ways would lose you anywhere between 3 and 10 points. More extreme measures would result in 15 or 20 points lost.

I was in the same boat too about turning down Anders with the points we lost. However, one night out of the blue while at work I realized I never thought twice about it with Zevran. It made sense with him. I think my problem was with the vocabulary. -10 disapproves sounds a lot different than -10 rivalry. Disapproves sounds like "Oh darn!" Rivalry sounds like "I hate you!"

It might have also had something to do with the timing of showing the points as well.

EDITed for a spelling mistake.

Why do people go on about the rivaly points?
Does it hurt your feelings or something?

[Babaganoosh013]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Babaganoosh013 wrote...

Shawn Marrster wrote...

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

How did you feel about the points you lost turning Zevran down (assuming you played a male warden)? Turning him down nicely in many different ways would lose you anywhere between 3 and 10 points. More extreme measures would result in 15 or 20 points lost.

I was in the same boat too about turning down Anders with the points we lost. However, one night out of the blue while at work I realized I never thought twice about it with Zevran. It made sense with him. I think my problem was with the vocabulary. -10 disapproves sounds a lot different than -10 rivalry. Disapproves sounds like "Oh darn!" Rivalry sounds like "I hate you!"

It might have also had something to do with the timing of showing the points as well.

EDITed for a spelling mistake.

Why do people go on about the rivaly points?
Does it hurt your feelings or something?

Because it's part of the game. An important part when it determines our relationships (not necessarily in a LI way) and the bonuses they receive with all of our companions.

[Silfren]

Plaintiff wrote...

Shawn Marrster wrote...

Gay companions.. OK. But let it be a RPG. Let me kill the gay companion without "punishment" from the game.

One of the more fun aspects of RPGs are doing things that are not Political Correct. In Mass Effect my Shepard was a "racist" that put humanity before all other species. Loved to kill the council, put in Udina as the chancellor, military rule, help Cerberus fight of alien life.

In Oblivion Knight of the nine: I refused to knight any non-white person.

Give me the freedom to be "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" in an RPG.

One of the worst things with DA2 was Anders and that you lost "points" if you refused his gay advances on you. The game punished players that didn't bend over for Anders!

You want to roleplay as a violent, racist homophobe (not that you need to fake it), but gay characters aren't allowed to dislike you?

You get rivalry points with every character every time you say something that they don't like. What the hell were you expecting?

You really gotta love this way certain people have of putting words like racist or homophobe in square-quotes.  Or how they use the phrase politically correct, when all that means is just being, OMG, a decent and sensitive person.  But yeah, putting homophobe in squarequotes?  Niiiiiice.  Says a lot about their mindset. 

For my part I can't believe a person would ask about having the freedom to kill a gay companion--the implication here being that you kill them BECAUSE they are gay (since of course you did have the option to kill several gay or bi companions in Origins and DA2, even though you don't do it for the reason of their sexuality....), and not figure out why there is NO WAY that Bioware would go that route.  Hoo boy, yeah, LGBT players would just love to play a game where you have the option to kill LGBT characters for being LGBT.  DO THAT, BIOWARE!

Um....