13 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

Credit where credit is due:
Kudos to Bioware for coming up with an interesting concept for a faction.
Mirror Match is a genuinely challing mode that forces people to think tactically on the battlefield. (Unless you're a vanguard, in which case you can charge/nova your way to victory).
It is great to see some power using enemy types 

So please note that I think that Mirror Mode is a really good faction and is the sort of direction I would like Bioware to take with future factions. Enemy mages in Dragon Age don't shy away from using their magic. Neither should tech and biotic enemies in Mass Effect.



My issue with Mirror Mode:
Is it just me or are 5 of the 6 Mirror Shepards really similiar?


Adept: Spam warp and shoot
Engineer: Spam incinerate and shoot (they also have a drone)
Soldier: Spam carnage and shoot
Sentinel: Spam incinerate and warp. Oh and shoot. (Unlike adepts and engineers they have more hit points)
Infiltrator: Cloak and spam incinerate.


The only interesting enemy in my opinion.

Vanguard: Charge/Nova combo. That is devastating. That keeps me on my toes.


The other five is a question of playing a really cautious defensive style that involves frequent moving from cover to cover.

The vanguard can make your cover redundant forcing you to change tactics or die very quickly.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 mars 2013 - 09:34 .

[Abraham_uk]

I love powers.
I've wanted classes to use powers.


But projectile spamming with all of the six enemy types (vanguards use warp quite a bit too) seems a little unimaginative to me.

With all these other powers that could have been used.



The Ajunctant is a great example of an interesting power being used.
Singularity is far more interesting than just spamming warp.

[Abraham_uk]

I don't want this to be a bashing Bioware thread.

I love the idea of having more caster enemy types.
These are interesting foes.


But projectile spamming is a bit dull. There are many powers that can be used.

Here is what I had in mind for a power user style faction for multiplayer.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 mars 2013 - 09:33 .

[capn233]

Yes the clones are fairly similar. And it isn't a real mirror, it is six class setups that are a little different from each other. But there are some things missing... For instance, Soldier has Inferno Grenades and Adrenaline Rush as well. I think it is the Adept that lobs the blue biotic grenades. Sentinel has Tech Armor.

In any event that doesn't really diminish the point that they are fairly similar. But overall it works pretty well. It is a whole lot like fighting organics in Mass Effect where they had some interesting abilities, but largely it was more akin to a biotic orb or a few tech powers like Sabotage.

Maybe they will be able to implement a more varied set of enemies for the next game.

[ExcitedApathy]

I don't want to bash/complain too much, but I would have preferred a true "Mirror" match. 1-on-1, class vs class. Instead, we got a stun-lock fest. I personally don't find that fun. I find it frustrating. I certainly don't consider myself to be a super-skilled gamer, but I can't beat Mirror Match on Normal. I make to the final round with maybe 2 Shepclones left. Then I'm stun-locked into oblivion.

I really like the concept behind Mirror Match. It's challenging, and it's nice to see some of your own Shepard's attacks come back at you.

[Abraham_uk]

Bahanix wrote...

I don't want to bash/complain too much, but I would have preferred a true "Mirror" match. 1-on-1, class vs class. Instead, we got a stun-lock fest. I personally don't find that fun. I find it frustrating. I certainly don't consider myself to be a super-skilled gamer, but I can't beat Mirror Match on Normal. I make to the final round with maybe 2 Shepclones left. Then I'm stun-locked into oblivion.

I really like the concept behind Mirror Match. It's challenging, and it's nice to see some of your own Shepard's attacks come back at you.

I know what your problem is.

It's the maps you choose.
I've beaten Mirror faction twice. Both on the same map.
classic Combat Arena.

The other maps are too challenging to face Mirror faction.
They are a welcome challenge.
Just need some tweaking.

[ExcitedApathy]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Bahanix wrote...

I don't want to bash/complain too much, but I would have preferred a true "Mirror" match. 1-on-1, class vs class. Instead, we got a stun-lock fest. I personally don't find that fun. I find it frustrating. I certainly don't consider myself to be a super-skilled gamer, but I can't beat Mirror Match on Normal. I make to the final round with maybe 2 Shepclones left. Then I'm stun-locked into oblivion.

I really like the concept behind Mirror Match. It's challenging, and it's nice to see some of your own Shepard's attacks come back at you.

I know what your problem is.

It's the maps you choose.
I've beaten Mirror faction twice. Both on the same map.
classic Combat Arena.

The other maps are too challenging to face Mirror faction.
They are a welcome challenge.
Just need some tweaking.

I will try that then. I've tried a few other maps, but I haven't tried classic Arena.

[Abraham_uk]

The good thing about the Mirror Mode is the element of challenge.

They truly are the most challenging faction.
They are the only power focused faction. (Other factions do use powers).



If you want to win without much skill, the classic Combat Arena provides ample cover and is large enough to keep you alive.

Should you move from one part of the map to another, the odds of getting projectile spammed is much smaller than other maps.

Avoid Prime Eval like the plague. Even with easier factions like Geth and Cerberus, I find myself getting overrun. Unless you can comfortably beat the Super Elite Collectors on Prime Eval without spamming your medigel, I don't recommend facing Mirror Faction here.


The boring move from cover to cover and evade tactics work best in classic Combat Arena.
I've noticed that squadmates don't die as quickly here due to the faction focusing on Shepard.
Even with Tactical Cloak active, the clones seemed to completely ignore my squad-mates and target me.



Vanguard Shepard makes life a lot easier. Should clone vanguard start invading your personal space (which is the only foe that I find interesting), Vanguard Shepard can quickly dispatch them by counter charge novaing them.

[Abraham_uk]

It must be strange.

The most interesting mirror foe in my opinion is the Clone Vanguard.



For the other enemy types, I have some ideas.


Give the adept singularity.
Give the engineer sabotage. (This will only overheat your weapons and trigger a 4 second cooldown)
Give the soldier faster movement during adrenaline rush.


Give the sentinel overload and shockwave to replace both warp and incinerate. (Yes I know sentinels don't have shockwave)
Give the infiltrator proximity mine to replace incinerate.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 24 mars 2013 - 09:29 .

[Juumanistra]

When I first saw Mirror Mode cue up, with its shiny N7 logo, I thought they were doing a continued homage to the multiplayer experience and that the mirror-party would use MP classes to roughly match your abilities. (I was looking forward to getting my butt kicked by an N7 Destroyer, Valkyrie, and Awakened Collector.) I was most disappointed when it was just an endless legion of Clone Shepards with the same armor-instead-of-health bovine excrement.

[Abraham_uk]

Juumanistra wrote...

When I first saw Mirror Mode cue up, with its shiny N7 logo, I thought they were doing a continued homage to the multiplayer experience and that the mirror-party would use MP classes to roughly match your abilities. (I was looking forward to getting my butt kicked by an N7 Destroyer, Valkyrie, and Awakened Collector.) I was most disappointed when it was just an endless legion of Clone Shepards with the same armor-instead-of-health bovine excrement.

Well, that would be nice.

I don't think it's that bad. In fact Mirror Mode is my favourite faction.
It's really tough. I know I myself am very harsh.
The reason for the harshness is that I feel that this is a really good idea that needs developing.


I liked how in Dragon Age Origins, you could face enemy mages that used spells against you.

If Shepard and company can cast powers, why are enemy troopers unable to.
I'd even welcome a few really strong enemy types that test your skill. over trash mobs.



Anyway. Your expectations of a multiplayer inspired faction are somewhat "mirrored" in my suggestion thread.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 27 mars 2013 - 07:21 .

[Constant Motion]

Juumanistra wrote...

When I first saw Mirror Mode cue up, with its shiny N7 logo, I thought they were doing a continued homage to the multiplayer experience and that the mirror-party would use MP classes to roughly match your abilities. (I was looking forward to getting my butt kicked by an N7 Destroyer, Valkyrie, and Awakened Collector.) I was most disappointed when it was just an endless legion of Clone Shepards with the same armor-instead-of-health bovine excrement.

Armor instead of health is kind of consistent, though. Our Shepards, like the Mirror Match Shepards, cannot be ragdolled, or stasised, presumably because it's not much fun.

We can only do to them what they can do to us. I don't know. It makes sense to me.

[Soja57]

Abraham_uk wrote...

It must be strange.

The most interesting mirror foe in my opinion is the Clone Vanguard.



For the other enemy types, I have some ideas.


Give the adept singularity.
Give the engineer sabotage. (This will only overheat your weapons and trigger a 4 second cooldown)
Give the soldier faster movement during adrenaline rush.


Give the sentinel overload and shockwave to replace both warp and incinerate. (Yes I know sentinels don't have shockwave)
Give the infiltrator proximity mine to replace incinerate.

Proximity Mine would be painful, considering how hard they are to spot, how fast they travel/detonate, and their large impact radius.

I agree on the 5 other classes besides the Vanguard being too similar. They can make each mirror class more distinct by giving them more varying powers.

Adept
Weapon: Pistol/SMG

Singularity - dodgeable projectile
Warp - dodgeable projectile
Throw - slow, dodgeable projectile

When you are within the field of a Singularity, your running speed is drastically reduced by constantly pulling you towards the center, and also slowly deals damage to you. Warp deals strong instant damage and slow damage over time without any staggering effects. Throw is slow moving and deals little to no damage, but can stagger even if the player is behind cover, working similar to the Possessed Collector Warp from ME2.

If Throw hits you while you are under the effects of Warp or are within a Singularity field, it will cause a biotic detonation, dealing massive damage.

Engineer
Weapon: Pistol/SMG

Sabotage - instant cast
Cryo Blast - dodgeable projectile
Combat Drone - enemy "pet"

Sabotage would simply cause your weapon to automatically overheat, forcing you to reload (does not consume any of your ammo). Cryo Blast reduces your overall speed, including running, rolling, reloading, and power cooldowns. Combat Drone quickly approaches your position, and when in melee range, continuously staggers you with shock attacks like in ME2.

Soldier
Weapon: Revenant

Adrenaline Rush - Stat boost
Marksman - Stat bosot
Inferno Grenade - area denial grenade

Adrenaline Rush vastly increases the Soldier's movement speed, and allows him to dodge grenades and projectile powers. Marksman allows the Soldier to fire his Revenant for long periods of time with high accuracy and damage. Inferno Grenades lights an area on fire, serving as an area denial tool.

- - - - - - - - - -

Sentinel and Infiltrator are more difficult to do, but adding/replacing these powers for the specified classes would make the mirror match more interesting.

Modifié par Soja57, 28 mars 2013 - 05:35 .

[Abraham_uk]

Great ideas Soja.

Sorry for delayed response.