244 réponses à ce sujet

[Enigmatick]

J. Reezy wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Surprisingly enough, making a game fun and have it being socially progressive AREN'T things that naturally go hand in hand.

I'd rather the game be made as enjoyable as possible, with the idea of making a "statement" or "taking a stand" as secondary, if not tertiary, concerns for a developer.

Are seriously taking that stance on the BSN?

Ah yes, BioWare is all about the progression of the various social issues plaguing society

The fans on sure think the games should try their hardest to do that  

Modifié par Enigmatick, 24 mars 2013 - 03:34 .

[Fast Jimmy]

J. Reezy wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Surprisingly enough, making a game fun and have it being socially progressive AREN'T things that naturally go hand in hand.

I'd rather the game be made as enjoyable as possible, with the idea of making a "statement" or "taking a stand" as secondary, if not tertiary, concerns for a developer.

Are seriously taking that stance on the BSN?

Ah yes, BioWare is all about the progression of the various social issues plaguing society

I just don't see the value in a default protagonist of any gender in a series about character customization. Would a racing game only show one car in its promotion if the player could drive hundreds? Would a shooter only show fighting with a pistol if it offered, grenades, tanks and automatic weapons? Would a basketball game only show you being able to play the Knicks if you could choose to play any team in the NBA?

And, honestly, I don't see gender selection in DA2 to be all that much more than the "Ms. Pacman-ification" of Hawke. They put a bow and some make up on, but the gameplay, story, lines, character reactions and overall experience is the exact same, minus cosmetic changes.

If Bioware wanted to make the gender a truly unique experience to showcase the plight of women or some of the unique obstacles to gender roles in society with it, that would be fine. But if DA2 were a book, with all text and no visuals, there would be very little to indicate the gender of Hawke if it wasn't explicitly stated. I don't think that is much of a social "statement."

[lil yonce]

@J Reezy; I like that avatar.

On topic: Just use a plain cover like Origins. An important NPC, a non-descript warrior/mage, a devastated backdrop, and a dragon.

[Dave of Canada]

Reversible cover, maybe.

Also what's with video games being the target of solving all of social injustices?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 24 mars 2013 - 03:40 .

[Knight of Dane]

Daissran wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

I'm sure they would take your suggestion if they wanted to hurt their sales.

How would having a female lead affect sales? They've never really tried this before, so it would be new...

The majority of both genders react and relate to themselves.
This is why RPG/FPS games almost always look like this:






See a relation? It's because the majority of gamers are male (even if the female minority is increasing this is a fact)

My opinion:
They should not focus on any gender. They should market it on badass companions/villains and then end it with a tag line like... "Only you can bring upon............
*Drumroll*
The Inqusition!"
*Epic music*

Settle the player for a great game with interesting characers and conflicts. That can appeal to both genders without highlighting either.

[Volus Warlord]

Youth4Ever wrote...

@J Reezy; I like that avatar.

On topic: Just use a plain cover like Origins. An important NPC, a non-descript warrior/mage, a devastated backdrop, and a dragon.

Man with weapon with suggestively dressed hot chick in the background will sell more copies. 

[rapscallioness]

Weskerr wrote...

It's not something that's been tried too much and publishers don't want to take the risk. Even Ken Levine said that putting a female on the Bioshock Inifnite box would hurt their sales.

[N147]

Nefla wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

I'm sure they would take your suggestion if they wanted to hurt their sales.

Would it actually hurt sales? I think the kind of person who would play a BioWare game isn't the same kind of dudebro that wont consider playing a female character, having a woman on their team, etc...I think it could hook more female gamers which the games themselves actually really appeal to.

Your assumption is incorrect. Female leads are unnapealing to me, and I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one. I like Bioware games for their ability to tell an amazing story, not for their stance on LGBT relationships, or the ability to play as a female.

[Wifflebottom]

@Volus Warlord
If having a female on the cover of a game really makes a company lose so much money then that's a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers and publishers who create games so that consumers aren't scared of women or whatever.

@Fast Jimmy
How does vouching for putting a female main character on the cover of a video game interfere with the development of the game? When the artists get to the stage where they're coming up with concepts for the cover why not decide to put a female on it, that does not interfere whatsoever with the gameplay.

If the video game industry wants to ever get rid of the stigma that its consumers consist entirely of straight testosterone-filled man-children who are so afraid of women that they can't have them on their video game covers (ewww cooties) then something needs to be done about it, putting a female on a cover is a step in that direction.

PS: Personally I prefer that they not advertise any premade PC for the next Dragon Age but if they must then it being a female would at least be something new.

[Fast Jimmy]

For the same reason female gamers don't want to buy a game with a dude on the front, guy gamers don't want to buy a game with a girl on the front. You don't reach equality by saying "okay, this time we alienate the other side, just to be fair."

What you do is showcase the choice itself. Since that is what will bring both parties to the table.

It is really not complicated - sell the fact that you can be an independent strong woman or an awesome dudebro without alienating either group and you secure the sales of both.

[Volus Warlord]

Wifflebottom wrote...

@Volus Warlord
If having a female on the cover of a game really makes a company lose so much money then that's a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers and publishers who create games so that consumers aren't scared of women or whatever.

That is.. pure idiocy.

They are not a lobby, they are a video game developer. Making $$ so that they continue to make video games takes priority of outside unrelated agendas.

[Wifflebottom]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

For the same reason female gamers
don't want to buy a game with a dude on the front, guy gamers don't want
to buy a game with a girl on the front. You don't reach equality by
saying "okay, this time we alienate the other side, just to be fair."

What you do is showcase the choice itself. Since that is what will bring both parties to the table.

It
is really not complicated - sell the fact that you can be an
independent strong woman or an awesome dudebro without alienating either
group and you secure the sales of both.

Except female gamers DO buy games with dudes on the front because guess what, the majority of AAA games have a dude on the front. Have you ever spoken to female gamers that play Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Gears of War, Halo, CoD, Starcraft etc.?

Modifié par Wifflebottom, 24 mars 2013 - 03:51 .

[lil yonce]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

@J Reezy; I like that avatar.

On topic: Just use a plain cover like Origins. An important NPC, a non-descript warrior/mage, a devastated backdrop, and a dragon.

Man with weapon with suggestively dressed hot chick in the background will sell more copies. 

And you still have a lore-appropriate male and an important in-game female on the cover. Problem sovled. 

[Monica21]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

For the same reason female gamers don't want to buy a game with a dude on the front, guy gamers don't want to buy a game with a girl on the front. You don't reach equality by saying "okay, this time we alienate the other side, just to be fair."

What you do is showcase the choice itself. Since that is what will bring both parties to the table.

It is really not complicated - sell the fact that you can be an independent strong woman or an awesome dudebro without alienating either group and you secure the sales of both.

Well, if it matters, I don't mind buying a game with a dude on the front. I know that I'm a minority when it comes to demographics. 

At the same time, I admit to being confused by male gamers. I play EVE Online and something like 97% of players are male, but about half those have females as their main character. So, why would dudes not want to buy a game with a girl on the front if many of those male players are going to have at least one playthrough as a female?

[billy the squid]

Wifflebottom wrote...

@Volus Warlord
If having a female on the cover of a game really makes a company lose so much money then that's a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers and publishers who create games so that consumers aren't scared of women or whatever.

Hahaha. Games, the new battle ground for social equality. I forgot how much rubbish floats about on the DA forums, it's been too long.

Why would a developer ever spend additional money when they can do what they've always done, which is cheaper, easier and still nets them the significant majority of the market?

[Wifflebottom]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Wifflebottom wrote...

@Volus Warlord
If having a female on the cover of a game really makes a company lose so much money then that's a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers and publishers who create games so that consumers aren't scared of women or whatever.

That is.. pure idiocy.

They are not a lobby, they are a video game developer. Making $$ so that they continue to make video games takes priority of outside unrelated agendas.

Ah yes video game companies taking steps in new directions must be completely unheard of, that's why games are exactly the same as they were 20 years ago.

[slimgrin]

Maybe they should market a shemale. There's a compromise.

[Arkman279]

Well I think it probably has a little to do with the fact that most gamers are guys and when you play the character your stepping into they're shoes so to speak, and I think they're afraid that a lot of guys would have trouble identifying with the character and that would make it less marketable to a larger audience. However I feel the best idea so far is too have both characters  an equal representation that would appeal to more people on the whole.

Modifié par Arkman279, 24 mars 2013 - 03:57 .

[Volus Warlord]

Wifflebottom wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Wifflebottom wrote...

@Volus Warlord
If having a female on the cover of a game really makes a company lose so much money then that's a problem that needs to be addressed by the developers and publishers who create games so that consumers aren't scared of women or whatever.

That is.. pure idiocy.

They are not a lobby, they are a video game developer. Making $$ so that they continue to make video games takes priority of outside unrelated agendas.

Ah yes video game companies taking steps in new directions must be completely unheard of, that's why games are exactly the same as they were 20 years ago.

Unrelated. The reason video games are different is because of

1.) technological advancement

and

2.) market competition raising the bar 

The changes were to make more money. Not to advance social agendas. 

[Volus Warlord]

NOR_MAN_DEE wrote...

Why is this a big deal to people?

They don't have anything more important to occupy their concern.

[Knight of Dane]

NOR_MAN_DEE wrote...

Why is this a big deal to people?

Gender is important to a lot of people.

[Fast Jimmy]

They should just put Han Solo on the cover.

Problem solved.

[Wifflebottom]

Or haven't realized that many males are completely incapable of accepting females on video game covers. Whatever I'm male and I don't have a problem with it and apparently that makes me the odd one out and the game consumer base really does consist of a bunch of man-children who dictate everything that game companies do. My bad.