244 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

I'm a woman and I actually prefer to see the male marketing. The male Hawke looked great in the trailer and honestly he looks more believable taking on the Arishok one-on-one. I also prefer male Shepard to female Shepard. It does not mean that I think the woman can't do the same as the male. But watching Male Hawke battle the Arishok in the trailer was epic.

My problem with a main female protagonist is the "need" to sex her up some how to make a sale and it makes it hard for me to take her seriously.

[AlanC9]

Youth4Ever wrote...

They don't have to put a black woman on the cover, just someone who isn't so fair and I'd be happy. Its not so much I want black women to be validated, I just don't want them or anyone with skin darker than snow to be consistently excluded. I think the default protagonist should be more universally appealing.

There's such a thing as universal appeal?

[Hazegurl]

I don't think there is a such thing as universal appeal. Some group is going to be excluded in some way. However, when I see a character like Isabella in game having dark skin, then see a very fair skinned woman in the company's poster it makes me wonder why the developers even bothered if they're just going to chicken out and bleach her skin for promos. I don't see any other companions skin tone changing for no reason.

[lil yonce]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Youth4Ever, I notice you mention you're disappointed in us for making it two in a row now.

Prior to this two in a row, what were your thoughts?

My first Bioware game was ME1. I haven't played Balder's Gate or any older Bioware games. I don't know how the PCs were handled.

[Terraforming2154]

Warden Commander David wrote...

Another thing I don't understand is why is it such a big deal what the cover/trailer character looks like when we get to fully customize our character to our liking...

It would just be nice to see non-caucasians being represented. I will concede that I can deal with iconic defaults in marketing as long as Bioware avoids DA2's method of sort of forcing that character into the actual game.

I have to say it was very strange playing default female Hawke (bright blue eyes and quite pale) then customizing her to be dark-skinned and dark-eyed not five minutes later. It was a weird disconnect for me, like Bioware's default character sort of invalidated my custom one, since it was with default Hawke that I got my first introduction to her character. Idk, it's hard to explain...

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 24 mars 2013 - 07:14 .

[Harle Cerulean]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Regardless, why is specific skin shading an issue, as opposed to ethnicity, which I could sort of see?Because white skin, fair skin especially, along with blonde hair and blue eyes in the US has been considered beautiful and anything significantly darker considered less attractive or unattractive.

Because white skin, fair skin especially, along with blonde hair and blue eyes in the US has been considered beautiful and anything significantly darker considered less attractive or unattractive.

Okay. So what you're saying is you've been made to feel ugly, so you want Bioware to put someone who looks like you on the cover of their next game so that you can feel like the world is finally acknowledging that you're equally pretty.

For what it's worth, I'm sure you're gorgeous. And when you pick up your copy of the next DA game, you'll be able to make a BA-looking super-hot Inquisitor that looks as much or as little like you as you want. But the cover of the game isn't going to give you the kind of validation you're looking for. I've yet to find one that looks sufficiently like me to convince me that Mattel was wrong and I don't have to look like Barbie to be pretty. And in the meantime, again, I'd just be suuuuper careful, when talking about skin tone, to let others know that your desire to see a hot black woman on the cover of a Bioware product isn't actually just disgust with having to see a fair-skinned one.

I never do this, but I think I'm actually going to quote myself.
... yes I am.

brushyourteeth said...
I'm all for diversity, but I'm just going to put it out there that if the gold-standard for "acceptable marketing" means "the hero looks just like me," most of us are going to be out of luck. There's no way that any game company can (or really, should have to) live up to that. 

Edited for quote weirdness.

I hate to say it, and I'm not doing so to call you racist or anything, but just to try to make you see what's happening here, but this kind of thing is exactly why women of colour don't take the feminist movement seriously - why it's called 'white femininsm' and has a reputation for leaving WoC in the dirt.

You say, "Sure, it'd be nice if women were more represented in marketing."  Someone suggests that darker-skinned women would be nice, too, since they're underrepresented.  You react with "Hey, there's nothing WRONG with being white!" - which no one said, or even implied - and "We'll never ALL be represented"/"They can't show EVERY race," both addressing something that wasn't asked (ie "show every possible race!") and implying that since they can't show them all at once, the solution is to show only white. 

Fact is, it is every bit as legitimate to ask for a black woman in marketing as it is to ask for a white woman.  Both are underrepresented, the former moreso than the latter, and it is not insulting white women to ask for a black woman for a change of pace.

It is, however, insulting to black women to be told that they shouldn't speak up and ask to be represented too.

[Allan Schumacher]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Youth4Ever, I notice you mention you're disappointed in us for making it two in a row now.

Prior to this two in a row, what were your thoughts?

My first Bioware game was ME1. I haven't played Balder's Gate or any older Bioware games. I don't know how the PCs were handled.

Does the entire Mass Effect trilogy count as one, or just ME3?

I'm just trying to establish the context of what it means to be "two for two."

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 mars 2013 - 08:40 .

[Pcmag1]

I don't know, the PC needs to be marketed as a bad-ass. While in game female character can be bad-ass through dialogue. On stationary posters it is kind of hard to accomplish. I wouldn't mind seeing CGI featuring female protagonist. Still I cannot imagine "Deep roads trailer" with female instead.
...
the men's tennis is far more popular then women's

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

I agree with OP.

[AstraDrakkar]

I support this thread.

[lil yonce]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Does the entire Mass Effect trilogy count as one, or just ME3?

I'm just trying to establish the context of what it means to be "two for two."

ME3 and DA2 were the female protagonist was designed and marketed.

[Kidd]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Does the entire Mass Effect trilogy count as one, or just ME3?

I'm just trying to establish the context of what it means to be "two for two."

ME3 and DA2 were the female protagonist was designed and marketed.

The BioWare game just before ME and DA started, Jade Empire, had this on its cover and in its marketing.


It's a pretty darn good game, too. I suggest you pick it up, should be cheap nowadays =) I managed to miss the game in its prime due to unforeseen circumstances and only went back and played it late last year, and it was so totally damn worth it. Lots of great design in that game, all fields included ^^

Main theme music here, by Jack Wall of Mass Effect fame. (this accredation is so backwards, I know~~)

Harle Cerulean wrote...

I hate to say it, and I'm not doing so to call you racist or anything, but just to try to make you see what's happening here, but this kind of thing is exactly why women of colour don't take the feminist movement seriously - why it's called 'white femininsm' and has a reputation for leaving WoC in the dirt.

You say, "Sure, it'd be nice if women were more represented in marketing."  Someone suggests that darker-skinned women would be nice, too, since they're underrepresented.  You react with "Hey, there's nothing WRONG with being white!" - which no one said, or even implied - and "We'll never ALL be represented"/"They can't show EVERY race," both addressing something that wasn't asked (ie "show every possible race!") and implying that since they can't show them all at once, the solution is to show only white.

I recognise those responses you mention. They're the same ones I get from lots of generally well-meaning but ill-informed men every time I ask why we can't have a female [anything] in most media. I may very well have run into doing what I don't like others doing if I hadn't seen this post. Thanks a damn bunch for informing me =)

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 24 mars 2013 - 09:48 .

[Firky]

Who was on the Baldur's Gate 2 box? (I mean, I have several boxes right here, but who was the character?)

I always thought those faces looked neither male nor female.

Modifié par Firky, 24 mars 2013 - 09:58 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

txgoldrush wrote...

 I am sick and tired of all those white male leads

Nice racism friend. 

[Nightdragon8]

.... so change the color of your characters skin.... there is a skin color slider....

anyway, do people really honestly look at the cover art and say " I wanna buy that game" and does so blindly. I ALWAYS look at the back or the flappy thing to look at the ingame play. and if i don't see any I go on youtube and look it up there. If it looks like something I wanna get I will. You can always go back to the store.

With games now-a-days when NO RETURN POLICY, I rather buy a game once and live with it than go though the nightmare of dealing with getting "Store credit"

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Captain Crash wrote...

Dont worry Bioware have already stated they will use both a male and female protagonist for DA3 marketing

:happy:

https://twitter.com/...034915845226496

Using both in marketing doesn't in any way mean equal representation. All you'd need is a screenshot and boom, done.

It'd be nice, but I won't hold my breath. I still hope for a gender neutral box cover.

[BeatoSama]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

 I am sick and tired of all those white male leads

Nice racism friend. 

Except that it isn't racism though. <_<

[marktcameron]

And this is why i hate new gamer's. lol who ****ing cares.

[legbamel]

A lot of people care, clearly, or you wouldn't be on page 7 posting dismissive crap.

Personally, I'm a snow-white woman who prefers to play female PCs in every shade available. I'm excited to see what BioWare can do now that they have an engine that lets them include darker skin tones that don't look...somewhat bizarre. And I'd love for them to include a PC of color in their marketing, if only to demonstrate that you can actually have one.

[Captain Crash]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Captain Crash wrote...

Dont worry Bioware have already stated they will use both a male and female protagonist for DA3 marketing

:happy:

https://twitter.com/...034915845226496

Using both in marketing doesn't in any way mean equal representation. All you'd need is a screenshot and boom, done.

It'd be nice, but I won't hold my breath. I still hope for a gender neutral box cover.

I think it would be naive to say there will be equal representation, not just on the box art. Afterall this is still a male dominated audience and its those opinions that still hold the most weight and sell copies. Still as you say a cover like Skyrim which is just a symbol could be a way to represent the game instead.  I actually like that suggestion.



If they do focus on having a protangonist on the front  I would love a reversable cover like ME3, that helped a number of ways.  I take comfort in the fact though that Bioware does listen to what their fans think and I think its great of them to make this commitment.  Its something they have offered when they don't need to do it.

[weaselshep]

Weskerr wrote...

I'm sure they would take your suggestion if they wanted to hurt their sales.

Lara Croft disagree's.

[ianvillan]

Bioware are not adverse to having Females as some of the main marketing in their games, Neverwinter Nights had Aribeth only on the cover, and KOTOR had Bastila on the cover.

But I do believe that the main trailers, game demonstrations and adverts do mainly depict Males with the females hardly shown.

ME3 showed this even after the Fem Shepard beauty contest, the main Shepard in all the marketing was Man Shep with Fem Shep like an after thought. This was shown in the CGI take back earth trailer Bioware hyped up the release and when it came it was Man Shep, but Fem Shep had to wait for her trailer with a minimal hype for it.

[Captain Crash]

john_sheparrd wrote...

please no I want my male protagonist on every trailer otherwise I can't feel it

Ok this made me giggle 

ianvillan wrote...

ME3 showed this even after the Fem Shepard beauty contest, the main Shepard in all the marketing was Man Shep with Fem Shep like an after thought. This was shown in the CGI take back earth trailer Bioware hyped up the release and when it came it was Man Shep, but Fem Shep had to wait for her trailer with a minimal hype for it.

I didn't take this as a bad thing as this was a first stepping stone. In ME2 all FemShep got was four in game screenshots prior to release.  In ME3 she got Box Art, a image campaign, promotional material, two trailers!  This was a massive leap. Yes it was still down played to Sheploo, but it was a big move forwards. The hype was still there and there was a great reaction from it.

Getting back to Dragon Age we already seen willingness to promote a female lead and I can see this again being more then in DA2. I think this is a great positive in an audience which still prefers the male protagonist. 

Modifié par Captain Crash, 24 mars 2013 - 01:09 .

[Sir George Parr]

I do agree with the OP. As from the trailers for Origins and DA2 you would have no idea that the choice to play as a female protagonist even exists. I do think that female Hawke would have being amazing in her version of that CG trailer used to market that game if it had existed.
When i played ME for the first time on PS3, i was really surprised how you are railroaded into playing as Male shepard on the menu screen. If you want to play as female shepard you have got to go and look for her.
So with DA3 i would like to see the female protagonist used in her own trailer and also be on the sleeve art as well. But unlike ME3 it would be better that the woman on the sleeve look like the default option in game, rather than just have a passing resemblance to her.