244 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob Garbage]

I wonder how Lara Croft being on the cover of Tomb Raider is negatively affecting sales.

Oh wait.

[Bob Garbage]

I just boobs whenever I boobs so I boobs boob.



...boobs.

[Fast Jimmy]

What this entire discussion has devolved to, women fighting over what color their desired featured female marketing lead would be, is exactly why the entire concept shouldn't be included at all.

I'm not saying that white male protag should stay on the cover - but that NO ONE should be on the cover. Look at the covers for DA:O, and Awakening. Basic motifs without clear indication of the "character" you were playing.

Then they could use gameplay videos to showcase the options to create your own character - not only in terms of gender and appearance, but also in terms of class/gameplay as well as chafacter personality and plot outcome choice.

As foreign of a concept as it may seem, there are MANY gamers out there who don't even understand the concept of making choices in a game that can result in different content/outcomes. They don't know that what Bioware has been trying to do with their games for years now is even an option in games. 

Instead of marketing a "cool, awesome" defined protagonist, of any gender, skin or hair color, they would do MUCH better if they found a way to market the choice that Bioware games have become known for. Instead of trying to pull in players with the same type of marketing we'd see for a first person shooter or an action game. Bioware should focus on the strengths of their games, not try and create interest in a default creation that defeats the spirit of what the series was built on.

Inclusivity, of any mindset, gender, race or viewpoint, is the benefit of a series that offers a high degree of customization. Trying to sell a game with a premise that treads on people's attempts at creating said customization right from the start is a terrible idea. I don't care if they had a pink, polka-dotted hermaphrodite chicken on the cover.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 mars 2013 - 01:54 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Just put an inquisitor in full helmet on the cover and put the whole silly thing to rest. Being vague worked just fine for Dark Souls.

[Pcmag1]

Bob Garbage wrote...

I wonder how Lara Croft being on the cover of Tomb Raider is negatively affecting sales.

Oh wait.

Good question, wonder how the game would do if there was a male protagonist. 
Only game that comes into mind with action archeologist male equivalent would be Uncharted games
Lara croft first 48 hour = 700 000 sales 
http://www.gameinfor...ter-launch.aspx
Uncharted 3: Drakes Deception day one = 3.8 milion 
http://www.ign.com/a...s#disqus_thread

So you tell me, did Lara Croft on cover helped? I honestly dnot know.

[Spedfrom]

Put Flemeth in mid transformation into a High Dragon on the cover and you kill two rabbits with one stone (poor things): a female on the cover while also making an absolutely awesome action-y cover!

[thebigbad1013]

krul2k wrote...

why not both?

This.

[LPPrince]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

I wonder how Lara Croft being on the cover of Tomb Raider is negatively affecting sales.

Oh wait.

Good question, wonder how the game would do if there was a male protagonist. 
Only game that comes into mind with action archeologist male equivalent would be Uncharted games
Lara croft first 48 hour = 700 000 sales 
http://www.gameinfor...ter-launch.aspx
Uncharted 3: Drakes Deception day one = 3.8 milion 
http://www.ign.com/a...s#disqus_thread

So you tell me, did Lara Croft on cover helped? I honestly dnot know.

Too many variables and connections that can't be made-

The rebooted Lara Croft is the first in a new series/Uncharted 3 is the third in an ongoing series
How much money and time was spent marketing each title?
How many sales of each game solely depended on the gender of the main character?
etc etc etc

[Mulsanne Blue]

I am both female and darker skinned (Mediterranean descent). The fact that FemShep and FemHawke are very fair skinned does not bother me in the least. I am playing an RPG, not a recount of my life. I also don't mind that the female protagonist is not overly used in marketing. I think it would be very cool if she was used more frequently (or even exclusively), but this would not affect my decision to purchase the game. Just my 2 cents.

[sharkboy421]

Spedfrom wrote...

Put Flemeth in mid transformation into a High Dragon on the cover and you kill two rabbits with one stone (poor things): a female on the cover while also making an absolutely awesome action-y cover!

You sound like you are being a little bit silly (if you're not I apologize for mis-reading) with your suggestion but I actually really like that idea. 

While I agree the best thing to do would be to not have any protagonist on the cover at all, from what I understand DAI will have another voiced pc similar to Shepard and Hawke.  If that is the case then they will almost certainly have the default character model on the cover and I am ok with that but I would like to see both male and female defaults then.

[billy the squid]

Plaintiff wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
So it can't be a good or fun game, without being saddled with social progressive horsesh!te. I'm bemused as to when games became the battleground for social progressives. 

What he said was the game should be enjoyable regardless of whatever social concept etc. happens to be present in it. So untwist your panties.

It won't be a good or fun game for the people that feel excluded or belittled by it.

That's what "social progression" means, making a game that is fun for more than one kind of person.

No it doesn't it means you're getting on your high horse and telling everyone how bad they should feel for being backwards and unenlightened. Social progression means that women are no longer expected to stay at home, rape is not explained away, homosexuality is not prohibited by law. That is social progression. 

What you've managed to term social progression constitutes a first world problem whereby, you're upset because someone has ignored whatever asinine points you're making because you're not getting your way.

I'm happy with a good game thanks. If you want characters to start a conversation with "hi I'm ... I'm gay/ lesbian/ shemale etc." simply for the desire to be included I question your intelligence and percieve a desire to be deliberately obtuse. And I will relish the opportunities to belittle people for that because it's dense to establish universal inclusion with neither ryhme nor reason, simply because the moral crusaders among us have determined everyone must be included.

As frequently said by the social lobby sect "check your privilige"

[Bfler]

Hm, have you guys ever heard of a reversible cover? The version with female char is on the one side and the male version on the other side.

Personally I would suggest a symbol like in TES, but the DA series doesn't have such a distinctive sign.

Modifié par Bfler, 24 mars 2013 - 03:36 .

[billy the squid]

Wifflebottom wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Nice, I'm looking forward to be called mysogonistic and sexist more often then! 

If one's views allign with misogonystic and and sexist ideas then one would expect to be called a misogynist or sexist, no?

Anywho, I'm all for increased inclusiveness in video games and if that means representing the unrepresented then that's good too.

And everyone shares the same perspective?

According to some my views are, although they tend to be the ultra femenist/ apologist groups, whereby reality doesn't enter and reasoned points are disregarded by use of cheap intellectually barren arguments as a way to undermine legitimite criticism of how daft their position is.

Increased inclusivness is stupid, if it's done for no other purpose than to massage the ego of people who feel slighted by a company which is in the business of making a mass marketed commercial product. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 24 mars 2013 - 04:01 .

[Foolsfolly]

4/5s of all ME3 players played Male Shepard. This is a series where it's been pretty much common knowledge that Mark Meer couldn't really stand up against Jennifer Hale.

And again most people played the warrior/soldier class. And the last time the DA series let us pick race most players picked human.

I think they have some decent data to realize that if you want to attract the most players to your game you show them a human warrior male doing cool things.

But maybe we'll get a female Inquisitor trailer like we did with FemShep.

[jaydip1985]

How many stupid threads can exist at the same time? honestly bio-ware forums is giving battle.net a run for its money.

[Mulsanne Blue]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Shepard is Canadian and Hawke is faux-English, from a region that doesn't seem to get that much traffic from the few areas of Thedas that have large amounts of darker-skinned people. Also, Shepard was one protagonist spread across three games, so it was only a decision made once.

MaleShep and MaleHawke are not nearly as fair as FemShep and FemHawke in-game. MaleShep was never fair and MaleHawke is rather tan in-game.

Regardless, why is specific skin shading an issue, as opposed to ethnicity, which I could sort of see?

Because white skin, fair skin especially, along with blonde hair and blue eyes in the US has been considered beautiful and anything significantly darker considered less attractive or unattractive.

This used to bother me as well. But as I became older, I realized that just is not true. It's a perception. I believe that beauty comes in all colors, shapes, and sizes. And it is more than that - it is being a good person too. Sometimes we just have to accept that society's view of beautiful does not fit everyone nor does it need to. I am happy with who I am and no one can change that. But I digress, because I am way off topic now.:innocent:

[HSomCokeSniper]

So basically Bioware gave us an opportunity to choose the appearance AND gender of our protagonist. As a result some complain about lack of trailers with female character in it. Apparently there's nothing some people won't **** about. What does it matter who's in the trailer?

[HolyAvenger]

Just put them both next to each other.

[Foolsfolly]

Tupexi wrote...

So basically Bioware gave us an opportunity to choose the appearance AND gender of our protagonist. As a result some complain about lack of trailers with female character in it. Apparently there's nothing some people won't **** about. What does it matter who's in the trailer?

Strictly speaking, it doesn't matter one damn bit to anyone who's on this board. We know there's a gender choice in the beginning of the game. We're all probably going to buy the game.

Personally, I think they should advertise a female protagonist, at least a little, just to sell a few more units. I know for a fact there are female gamers who do not play male protagonists. I found this out after recommending Witcher and Alpha Protocol to my sister and a few friends. If they can't be a female in it... then it takes a lot to get them to play it.

Such marketing would net them some extra cash. And it shouldn't even cost anything extra to insert "Choose your gender" into a trailer.

[Allan Schumacher]

Youth4Ever wrote...

ME3 and DA2 were the female protagonist was designed and marketed.

Hmm, was FemHawke actually marketed?  I thought ME3 was the first where we actually used the female protagonist in marketing.

[Foolsfolly]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

ME3 and DA2 were the female protagonist was designed and marketed.

Hmm, was FemHawke actually marketed?  I thought ME3 was the first where we actually used the female protagonist in marketing.

I honestly don't think she was. There was a few screenshots of her out there somehow because I remember seeing her prior to the release of DA2. But I don't remember one piece of marketing that show cased her. (She's not on the cover, no trailers, no representation in a CG trailer, etc.)

[Allan Schumacher]

I thought so too. Though mostly I just remember going "Finally!" when we did it with ME3 haha.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Foolsfolly wrote...

4/5s of all ME3 players played Male Shepard. This is a series where it's been pretty much common knowledge that Mark Meer couldn't really stand up against Jennifer Hale.

And again most people played the warrior/soldier class. And the last time the DA series let us pick race most players picked human.

I think they have some decent data to realize that if you want to attract the most players to your game you show them a human warrior male doing cool things.

But maybe we'll get a female Inquisitor trailer like we did with FemShep.

I bet you're right, and there will be a female trailer.

I'm almost certain that the sales of ME 3, with its "FemShep Marketing" were actually much higher than the previous two editions without.

Which doesn't change the fundamental property of the DA and ME series that appealed to the core audience as far back as the originals - choice.

As long as BioWare continues to make games that flesh out Role-Playing opportunities the way they have, with a high level of choice, I don't think the guy on the cover of the box matters that much. Especially when people are drawn to both series because of the ability to make a variety of gender/race/species/class choices.

As to the OP question: Just curious, if someone wants to play a game because of its content, why would the marketing matter? I don't personally make any VG purchase choices based on marketing, but are there many people that do?

EDIT: Those telemetrics are misleading, too. They've been discussed a fair bit in the ME 3 forums. They don't include playthroughs going back to ME 1, or even ME 2. So the players who simply picked the default settings playing though ME 3 would skew the numbers.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 24 mars 2013 - 04:09 .