76 respuestas en este tema

[AlexMBrennan]

Interesting question, but ultimately irrelevant since we have one DA and they have 250 Reaper capital ships - our fleet will get annihilated by the first volley unless the plot requires them to go full retard at the eleventh hour so that the hero can win.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Sovereign-class Reaper, it's not even close.

EDIT: I'm surprised that the DA even has that many votes. I sure like to know what those people have been smoking. Must be real good.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 01:34 .

[KingZayd]

David7204 wrote...

When someone or something tries to kill you, it's not stupid to try and kill them back. He should have waited for Shepard to get out, but a helpless dreadnought is not an opportunity to pass up.

When you ask someone for their help, it's a dick move to blow them up after they have done so.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

It's like throwing a Titan with a fully decked out squadron capacity (Occuli and all that) against a moderately buffed Capital ship. Of course Sovvie would win.

(Kudos if you get the not-at-all-subtle reference)

Editado por Leonardo the Magnificent, 25 marzo 2013 - 01:40 .

[Phatose]

Er...isn't this a matter of simple fact? DA vs Sovereign happened, and unless the Alliance intervenes, DA loses.

That said, calling it a Sovereign class instead of just Capital class is kind of odd.  My initial instinct was that you were asking about a Harbinger-class, which is a far more lopsided fight.

Editado por Phatose, 25 marzo 2013 - 01:42 .

[neubourn]

Wow...so much wrong information in this thread:
DA was NOT destroyed by Sovereign (if chose to hold back Alliance Fleet), it was destroyed by the bulk of the Geth Fleet.
Also, it very well COULD go toe to toe with a Sovereign-class Reaper:
Destiny Ascension
"It has almost as much firepower as the entire Asari Fleet COMBINED"

compared to Reapers:
"In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction."

So, there you have it...DA has more Firepower then the enitre Asari Fleet Combined, and at BEST...a Reaper can survive attacks from up to 3 Dreadnoughts.

The question should be asked: Is the DA comparable to 4 Regular Dreadnoughts?

[Artifex_Imperius]

I wouldn't be surprised some voted for
the Destiny Ascension. Atleast those people have hope and believe in
themselves there will is strong i believe they can beat a reaper. they
put themselves with crew and know reapers can be beaten. these people
act despite the fear of the invicible enemy. hehe

But for those
who voted on the reaper. their weak and afraid. reason why reaper can't
be beaten conventionally coz they don't believe in themselves

Editado por Artifex_Imperius, 25 marzo 2013 - 01:56 .

[Artifex_Imperius]

The acension forever! even the name of the ship owns DESTINY ACENSION! thats effin cool!

Editado por Artifex_Imperius, 25 marzo 2013 - 01:56 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised some voted for the Destiny Ascension. Atleast those people have hope and believe in themselves there will is strong i believe they can beat a reaper.

But for those who voted on the reaper. their weak and afraid. reason why reaper can't be beaten conventionally coz they don't believe in themselves.

That made absolutely no sense. Lets look at a historical example. All the hope in the world will not make the M4 Sherman better than the Panzer VI (AKA Tiger) in raw combat performance. To claim that people who believe the Sovereign-class reaper to be the superior warship compared to the DA are weak and afraid is quite the non sequitur.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 02:00 .

[Artifex_Imperius]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised some voted for the Destiny Ascension. Atleast those people have hope and believe in themselves there will is strong i believe they can beat a reaper.

But for those who voted on the reaper. their weak and afraid. reason why reaper can't be beaten conventionally coz they don't believe in themselves.

That made absolutely no sense. Lets look at a historical example. All the hope in the world will not make the M4 Sherman better than the Panzer VI (AKA Tiger) in raw combat performance.

you lack vision! victory is not achieved by pure numbers or pure strength alone! it requires vision: planning strategy.

Editado por Artifex_Imperius, 25 marzo 2013 - 02:01 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised some voted for the Destiny Ascension. Atleast those people have hope and believe in themselves there will is strong i believe they can beat a reaper.

But for those who voted on the reaper. their weak and afraid. reason why reaper can't be beaten conventionally coz they don't believe in themselves.

That made absolutely no sense. Lets look at a historical example. All the hope in the world will not make the M4 Sherman better than the Panzer VI (AKA Tiger) in raw combat performance.

you lack vision! victory is not achieved by pure numbers or pure strength alone! it requires vision: planning strategy.

Uh huh, and that somehow means the DA is a better warship than the Sovereign-class? I hope you're just trolling...

[Phatose]

neubourn wrote...

Wow...so much wrong information in this thread:
DA was NOT destroyed by Sovereign (if chose to hold back Alliance Fleet), it was destroyed by the bulk of the Geth Fleet.
Also, it very well COULD go toe to toe with a Sovereign-class Reaper:
Destiny Ascension
"It has almost as much firepower as the entire Asari Fleet COMBINED"

compared to Reapers:
"In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction."

So, there you have it...DA has more Firepower then the enitre Asari Fleet Combined, and at BEST...a Reaper can survive attacks from up to 3 Dreadnoughts.

The question should be asked: Is the DA comparable to 4 Regular Dreadnoughts?

Er..."As much firepower as the entire Asari Fleet combined" is rather clearly an exagerration by a tourist.  The Destiny Ascenion is worth less in terms of war assests then any particular Asari fleet, much less all of them together.

Plus, the effectiveness of Reaper barriers claimed in the Codex is rather inconsistent with what we see in the actual game.  The smaller destroyer class Reaper on Rannoch requires 4 salvoes from the entire quarian fleet, despite being smaller then a Sovereign class and being in an atmosphere. 

[RadicalDisconnect]

Phatose wrote...

Er...isn't this a matter of simple fact? DA vs Sovereign happened, and unless the Alliance intervenes, DA loses.

That said, calling it a Sovereign class instead of just Capital class is kind of odd.  My initial instinct was that you were asking about a Harbinger-class, which is a far more lopsided fight.

I don't think there's a Harbinger class per se, since according to the lore, Harbinger is of a unique design. I agree though, Harby would laugh, taunt, then tear the DA up with his tentacles for the lulz.

[Astartes Marine]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
That made absolutely no sense. Lets look at a historical example. All the hope in the world will not make the M4 Sherman better than the Panzer VI (AKA Tiger) in raw combat performance. To claim that people who believe the Sovereign-class reaper to be the superior warship compared to the DA are weak and afraid is quite the non sequitur.

The Sherman Firefly, the British variant with the 17 pounder gun, could win in that.  The Sherman platform has the mobility advantage and a faster turret turn speed compared to the Tiger I while the 17 pounder was at the time the absolute best Allied anti-armor gun mounted on an armored platform and could do some real nasty damage to Tigers.  Armor is still weak despite being improved over the standard Sherman so it  generally comes down to a who hits first battle.

A basic Sherman with the standard 75mm medium velocity gun wouldn't have a chance in hell of course.

Tiger IIs would be tough though for even the Firefly, but that's expected in general as the King Tiger is a nasty son of a **** to fight.

[Tom Lehrer]

Does anyone know how the DA even fires its main gun or where it is for that matter? I seem to recall Joker saying it lacked fire power or something in ME1.

[Astartes Marine]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Does anyone know how the DA even fires its main gun or where it is for that matter? I seem to recall Joker saying it lacked fire power or something in ME1.

I remember that scene during the reveal of the Citadel, I believe Williams responded with "are you crazy?  That thing's main gun could rip through the barriers of any ship in the fleet!" or something along those lines.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Astartes Marine wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
That made absolutely no sense. Lets look at a historical example. All the hope in the world will not make the M4 Sherman better than the Panzer VI (AKA Tiger) in raw combat performance. To claim that people who believe the Sovereign-class reaper to be the superior warship compared to the DA are weak and afraid is quite the non sequitur.

The Sherman Firefly, the British variant with the 17 pounder gun, could win in that.  The Sherman platform has the mobility advantage and a faster turret turn speed compared to the Tiger I while the 17 pounder was at the time the absolute best Allied anti-armor gun mounted on an armored platform and could do some real nasty damage to Tigers.  Armor is still weak despite being improved over the standard Sherman so it  generally comes down to a who hits first battle.

A basic Sherman with the standard 75mm medium velocity gun wouldn't have a chance in hell of course.

Tiger IIs would be tough though for even the Firefly, but that's expected in general as the King Tiger is a nasty son of a **** to fight.

Well, I was talking about a vanilla Sherman. I knew that some nerd will bring up the Firefly eventually. My point still stands though.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:24 .

[Astartes Marine]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
Well, I was talking about a vanilla Sherman. I knew that some nerd will bring up the Firefly eventually. My point still stands though.

Hey I love military history, what can I say? 


Could be worse though, could have been the Maus.  Slow as molasses in winter but you'll never get through that armor with anything less than naval guns.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Astartes Marine wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...
Well, I was talking about a vanilla Sherman. I knew that some nerd will bring up the Firefly eventually. My point still stands though.

Hey I love military history, what can I say? 


Could be worse though, could have been the Maus.  Slow as molasses in winter but you'll never get through that armor with anything less than naval guns.

Yup, they should've just stuck with producing more Panzer V and StuG III rather than the inefficient monstrosity that is the Tiger II. For all the technological innovation that Germany pushed during the waning years of WW2, they sure did have some stupid ideas. It seems like the more desperate you are, the more likely you are to turn to stupid ideas. Kinda like the Crucible.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:39 .

[David7204]

I'm sure you're full to bursting with genius suggestions on how to defeat the Reapers.

[SinerAthin]

The Sovereign class Reaper would demolish the Destiny's Ascension in 1vs1.


At best, Destiny's Ascension would be able to take down the Reaper's barrier and give it a few bruisiers, but inflict critical damage? Nope.


The Destiny's Ascension CAN destroy a Sovereign class Reaper, but the problem is that the Reaper will have outmanouvered and destroyed the Destiny's Ascension before it could inflict enough damage.

Editado por SinerAthin, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:48 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

David7204 wrote...

I'm sure you're full to bursting with genius suggestions on how to defeat the Reapers.

You're right, I don't. Frankly, I don't see us winning without anything short of a deux ex machina. Reapers hold a numerical and technological advantage, and their logistical footprint is negligible; they don't need all that support infrastructure that we need to wage total war. As for people arguing for a conventional victory, a lot of that depends on the assumption that Reapers are full-on retarded and can't adapt, which is one helluva assumption. That said, the Crucible plot is still full of plot holes and convenient handwaving.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:51 .

[RaptorSolutions]

Could always do the time-honored tradition of ramming. Then nobody wins.

[David7204]

Yes, that's certainly true. The Crucible has many problems.

A conventional victory could be done, I think. With hard science and tactics, meaningful heroism, and choices that matter. If and only if the player has a 'perfect' or 'near-perfect' playthrough, of course. It's not going to happen with half the galaxy gone. The galaxy is a big place. Lots of resources.

But in any case, the Crucible or some other non-conventional solution is going to be necessary.

Editado por David7204, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:52 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

David7204 wrote...

Yes, that's certainly true. The Crucible has many problems.

A conventional victory could be done, I think. With hard science and tactics, meaningful heroism, and choices that matter. If and only if the player has a 'perfect' or 'near-perfect' playthrough, of course. It's not going to happen with half the galaxy gone. The galaxy is a big place. Lots of resources.

I'm not saying conventional victory is strictly impossible, but I think it is exceedingly unlikely. If the Reapers were anywhere near competent, they are almost guaranteed to win.

If we look closely at the ME3 plot, we can see that both the Reapers and the galaxy made a bunch of retard mistakes.

Editado por RadicalDisconnect, 25 marzo 2013 - 03:54 .