306 réponses à ce sujet

[Adoramei]

There's no context or justification for racism. e_e It is what it is. I just accept it as a character flaw and move on.

[MrGoldarm]

Wiliams is quite annoying in me3 outside of citadel DLC, second guessing Shep the whole time.
Kaidan stays alive now lol.
Anyway strong human biotics are quite rare in the ME universe, grunts like Williams are not.

[Ryzaki]

NovaBlastMarketing wrote...

Ashley was more popular and survived more  - that  is an  example of a fact  because it is confirmed by offical pax data Despite  how much anyone wants to poke holes  in that  result.

Ashley is female while Kaidan is male OF COURSE she gets saved far more often.

She'd have to be the worst character in the history of ever to override the natural "man saves the girl" storyline.

[Battlebloodmage]

Ryzaki wrote...

NovaBlastMarketing wrote...

Ashley was more popular and survived more  - that  is an  example of a fact  because it is confirmed by offical pax data Despite  how much anyone wants to poke holes  in that  result.

Ashley is female while Kaidan is male OF COURSE she gets saved far more often.

She'd have to be the worst character in the history of ever to override the natural "man saves the girl" storyline.

Most players are males, and they usually save the female. Plus, many unimported files maleShep will pick Ashley. Moreover, ME2's default male Shepard has Ashley survived. Since most people play as maleShep, it's just a matter of fact that Ashley survives more.

[AVPen]

Ryzaki wrote...

NovaBlastMarketing wrote...

Ashley was more popular and survived more  - that  is an  example of a fact  because it is confirmed by offical pax data Despite  how much anyone wants to poke holes  in that  result.

Ashley is female while Kaidan is male OF COURSE she gets saved far more often.

She'd have to be the worst character in the history of ever to override the natural "man saves the girl" storyline.

That combined with the fact that there's a huge number of noobie players who don't import prior-game saves into ME3 and who play as MaleShep, which means that Ashley will of course be in players' games more often cause she'd the default VS for MaleShep.

Modifié par AVPen, 29 mars 2013 - 10:37 .

[mtmercydave09]

It's not enough to base a stat on who gets saved more. We'd need a stat to know who actually got romanced, because you can be a MaleShep and not romance Ashley at all.

[Argolas]

Pointing out that Ashley is NOT racist is a lost cause her on BSN it appears. You people either don't understand what racism is or never paid any attention at all to the Ashley character.

[Artifex_Imperius]

Just thought of something, When Shepard died? non of these two make a significant effort to recover my dead body?

no body means! no rescue! means no one cares about Shepard. T_T

And it was only Liara that made an effort to do so.

Where was "No body gets left behind". amongst soldiers?

So the reality is no matter how much you romance alenko and williams the truth is they dont really love you that much. tsk2x now why should I save them.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 30 mars 2013 - 05:22 .

[Argolas]

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

Just thought of something, When Shepard died? non of these two make a significant effort to recover my dead body?

no body means! no rescue! means no one cares about Shepard. T_T

And it was only Liara that made an effort to do so.

Where was "No body gets left behind". amongst soldiers?

So the reality is no matter how much you romance alenko and williams the truth is they dont really love you that much. tsk2x now why should I save them.

*facepalm*

Shepard is dead at that point. Spaced. It would be like saying Shepard should have returned to Virmire for the one he/she left behind there.

[Logos77]

 Alenko is such a downer.  Williams isn't much better.  I still wish I could of left both of them on Virmire and recruited Kirrahe into the squad.

[Barquiel]

Argolas wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

People don't call Ashley racist because of the bear-dog analogy. That's common sense. Of course the asari and the turians won't throw their fleets away in an futile attempt to retake Earth when their own worlds are also under attack. The council is absolutely right in ME3, Earth has no military or strategic significance that should have placed it at the highest priority (especially over planets like Thessia or Palaven). But she says a few things in ME1/2 which "could" be construed as racist...

"Jealous? Of you? You're not even our species!"
"You want to get involved with some alien? Go ahead."
"Make nice with the bug-eyed monsters."
"I am no fan of aliens"
"I can't tell the aliens from the animals"

And "trust issues" are really no excuse for calling Liara a "bug eyed monster". I would describe her as a mild racist (at least in ME1/2, don't recall seeing evidence after that). She doesn't trust aliens and doesn't treat them equally simply because of their race.

I think the "bug-eyed monster" quote was in reference to the Rachni instead of Liara (although she does have big eyes, lol), but the rest of your points are pretty accurate.

If Liara is a romantic rival in ME1 Ashley will make a comment about Shepard going for the alien woman because he is under orders to "make nice with the bug-eyed monsters." I guess she means that Asari eyes always turn black when melding...but it's still a horrible line.

All of the above quotes except the last one are rather examples of Ashley being a very jealous person and not of her racism. She doesn't really have anything against Liara, she is even worried about her after Benezia's death.

The "I am no fan of aliens" line has nothing to do with Liara's romance or jealousy either (and jealousy is not a very good excuse for racism, imo)...and that's the same as "I'm no fan of black people." That sounds pretty racist to me.

[Argolas]

Barquiel wrote...

The "I am no fan of aliens" line has nothing to do with Liara's romance or jealousy either (and jealousy is not a very good excuse for racism, imo)...and that's the same as "I'm no fan of black people." That sounds pretty racist to me.

Ah, I seem to have missed that one while reading. But wasn't the context of this line Ashley explaining why she dislikes Cerberus? Like "I can't say I'm a big fan of aliens but Cerberus goes way too far."?

Yes, her jealousy remarks are stupid. But does no one have the right to be stupid when feelings are involved? She never does anything offensive against aliens, does not even say anything unless it involves jealousy.

Being angry about individuals and calling them stupid names is not racism. Ashley does not dislike Liara because she is an Asari. Ashley does not even dislike Liara by default at all, when Benezia is killed Ashley is concerned about Liara and asks Shepard to talk to her. She has empathy towards aliens which is a clear sign that there is no racism involved. Not to mention Ashley's close relationship to Tali.
Compare that to Wrex and his behaviour in front of Salarians just because they are Salarians. That is racism. The thing is just that the more popular characters easily get away with that.

Modifié par Argolas, 30 mars 2013 - 02:12 .

[andy6915]

About that line-

"I am no fan of aliens"

As I did last page, and as Barquiel did, lets change a single word and see how the line feels afterward.

"I'm no fan of Asians"

"I'm no fan of Mexicans"

"I'm no fan of homosexuals"

Ouch... Just, ouch. That line is bigoted no matter what context you use it in.

[Artifex_Imperius]

Argolas wrote...

Artifex_Imperius wrote...

Just thought of something, When Shepard died? non of these two make a significant effort to recover my dead body?

no body means! no rescue! means no one cares about Shepard. T_T

And it was only Liara that made an effort to do so.

Where was "No body gets left behind". amongst soldiers?

So the reality is no matter how much you romance alenko and williams the truth is they dont really love you that much. tsk2x now why should I save them.

*facepalm*

Shepard is dead at that point. Spaced. It would be like saying Shepard should have returned to Virmire for the one he/she left behind there.

Disintegrate with a nuke and [SPACED] are thesame? [FACEPALM]. point made! we didnt recover the body of our commander who saved the universe because we were incomptent to serve in any uniform.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 30 mars 2013 - 02:36 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Knight of Dane wrote...

I used to prefer Ashley.

Then I played ME3 with her.

Now I prefer Kaidan.

Sadly this.

Hendrik.III wrote...

I sacrificed Ash, because that Shep doesn't need religious xenophobes on his ship. She's hot in ME3

So much wrong...!







Ah well...

[spirosz]

I like both characters, but I prefer Kaidan and they butchered Ashley in ME3, so it doesn't really feel like that's really her.

[wright1978]

Finally completed my first run of ME3 with an Ash alive playthrough. Personally thought she came across much worse than Kaidan did. Maybe it is very different if she is romanced though.

[mtmercydave09]

Agreed, they did butcher Ashley in ME3 unfortunately. I'll still choose her though. Shep needs a hot soldier to look at and keep him in line.

The "I'm no fan of aliens" is bigoted I get that, but if you understand where Ashley is coming from, she only cares about humans really because of what happened with her grandfather. She doesn't exactly come right out and say she hates aliens. She's just a little leery of them.

After all, her feelings do change by ME3 as she works with them. In ME1 she's also a pessimist, and in ME3 she becomes more of an optimist because of Shep. Shep did a lot to help her develop as a person by being in a relationship with her.

Maybe Bioware figured they could get away with it since they thought most males would just look at her and not care what she says.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 30 mars 2013 - 04:23 .

[Iakus]

andy69156915 wrote...

About that line-

"I am no fan of aliens"

As I did last page, and as Barquiel did, lets change a single word and see how the line feels afterward.

"I'm no fan of Asians"

"I'm no fan of Mexicans"

"I'm no fan of homosexuals"

Ouch... Just, ouch. That line is bigoted no matter what context you use it in.

I'm no fan of cats

I'm no fan of spicy food

I'm no fan of Glee

I'm no fan of  :insert political party here::

I'm no fan of survival horror games

...but people who do are free to do so, and I don't think less of them for doing so.

Bigotry?  or simply not something I'm into?

[Ykulnu]

andy69156915 wrote...

About that line-

"I am no fan of aliens"

As I did last page, and as Barquiel did, lets change a single word and see how the line feels afterward.

"I'm no fan of Asians"

"I'm no fan of Mexicans"

"I'm no fan of homosexuals"

Ouch... Just, ouch. That line is bigoted no matter what context you use it in.

None of those other groups wiped out lives with no warning and almost started a war by shrugging the loss of life off as standard policing procedure. None of those other groups consistently and unapologetically treat other races like ignorant children while using them for their resources, like the Council does humanity pre-Coucil seat. None of those other groups caused the person saying those things to live through a lifetime of 2nd rate consideration due to a misunderstood decision made by a family member, regardless of capability.

She has no reason to be trustworthy of aliens when near everything that has happened thus far in regards to them has been negative.

Yes, it was a hamfisted way to express disapproval, but she is in no way a humanity supremacist. Quite the contrary, as she readily tells you not two minutes late in the same conversation.

[Barquiel]

iakus wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

About that line-

"I am no fan of aliens"

As I did last page, and as Barquiel did, lets change a single word and see how the line feels afterward.

"I'm no fan of Asians"

"I'm no fan of Mexicans"

"I'm no fan of homosexuals"

Ouch... Just, ouch. That line is bigoted no matter what context you use it in.

I'm no fan of cats

I'm no fan of spicy food

I'm no fan of Glee

I'm no fan of  :insert political party here::

I'm no fan of survival horror games

...but people who do are free to do so, and I don't think less of them for doing so.

Bigotry?  or simply not something I'm into?

And you don't see a difference between "I'm no fan of (insert race, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.)" and "I'm no fan of some TV show"...really?

@ Argolas I agree, more popular characters easily get away with worse comments.

[Ykulnu]

Barquiel wrote...

The "I am no fan of aliens" line has nothing to do with Liara's romance or jealousy either (and jealousy is not a very good excuse for racism, imo)...and that's the same as "I'm no fan of black people." That sounds pretty racist to me.

As a black person, I can say that a dislike of black people and a completely different species with different social interations and history with humanity are two entirely different things.

Modifié par Ykulnu, 30 mars 2013 - 05:04 .

[andy6915]

@iakus

Oh now that's just mega-stupid. There's a whole world of difference between saying your not a fan of a certain type of pet, or food, or ideology then saying your not a fan of other human beings because of what race or sexual orientation they were born as. If you can't see the difference between "I hate soda" and "I hate Japs"... Then you are someone who's so clueless that your brain must have fallen out of your ass at some point.

[Asch Lavigne]

I never liked how Ash was all "I'm not really into aliens" and then a news report in 2 says she was honored to work with aliens, saying "we're all animals" when she gets the Salarain award for dying on Virmire.

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 30 mars 2013 - 05:07 .

[Iakus]

Barquiel wrote...

And you don't see a difference between "I'm no fan of (insert race, national origin, sexual orientation, etc.)" and "I'm no fan of some TV show"...really?

Given the reasons why Ash is 'no fan of aliens" no.  And all too few people bother to learn it.

She doesn't distrust them because "they have scales" or whatever.  She distrusts them because their governments may not always have humanity's best interests at heart (you know, they might let an alien incasion chew on earth while they secure their own borders, hypothetically speaking ).  Her "no fan of"-ness is not racial, but national or political.  She can learn to trust individual turians even if she is "no fan of" the Hierarchy.