306 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

I can't believe people actually decide based on squad utility...that's never a factor for me. The gameplay is too easy to worry about that.

[Reikilea]

ChuckTesla wrote...

Reikilea wrote...

I kind of never understood why Shepard would take Tali or Liara to battle. I mean she is a kid and I am sure she would be quite unexerienced fighter. Great tech maybe, but fighter? Nah. Same Liara with her archaelogist background. Do they usually train them in combat.

Thank God someone else noticed that. Liara ducks her head and hides when you fight that Krogan on Therum. Shepard responds to her inability to fight by... giving her a pistol, armor and having her be an actual squad mate. It made no sense whatsoever. Same with Tali, even though she still has a shotgun when you first see her. I guess she learned to be proficient with shotguns while on the Rayya.

It bothered the hell out of me. But I guess it comes equipped in quiet and bookish package. For someone who claims - spend all her life on dig sites studying protheans, she sure have picked up skill rivalling highly trained Alliance, C-Sec Merc soldiers.

They could at least throw some backstory there to explain why suddenly she goes from afraid archaelogist to soldier. Like Mordin. You know I may be archeologist but I used to run with Asari commando when I was younger...

Tali is something similar. I am sure she knows how to shoot from the shotgun, but to have real combat experience. Not even skilled in geth fighting, as they just came back from over the veil after 200 years. Mostly feels like she spend her whole life on the ship repairing the engines. So its funny how they throw them into the battle with ferocious N7marine.

I figured because Alliance soldiers are trained as a team, Shep would rather use someone who he is trained to cooperate with and knows the way they fight so - Kaidan and Ashley. Or Garrus because Garrus is turian and knows how to cooperate.

But I get it this is a game and hot aliens are cooler.

[NovaBlastMarketing]

Modius Prime wrote...

Umm... you have James and Garrus. Garrus with black widow/Javelin kills most mooks in 1 shot with proper damage passives + he can give squad AP rounds. James, from pax stats, has the highest survivability and he can tech burst incendiary rounds (no need for the nades) with carnage. Kaidan can reave for biotic detonations and chain overload-tech burst, plus he is pretty durable (I have no idea why he has the lowest mortality rate: make him use barrier. Liara, for me, is the first one to die (lowest HP/shields) along with Garrus). I've been facerolling insanity with Garrus-Kaidan since ME1, which I've beaten over 6 times on each game.

Kaidan isn't emotional baggage like Ashley (and is open-minded from BAaT) and he has most of his problems dealt with already. The only way for Ash to redeem her family is by dying on Virmire. Why would you send your staff LT for a gunnery chief who is less experienced? Kaidan can change the suspicion that aliens have against human biotics, while Ashley's primary goal is just for her family's reputation. The amount of fan service she got (okay, Kaidan got jacked. However, its like the same character as Mshep), plus the fact that she is totally opposite from ME1 just makes me want to save her even less.

1 Your why aswers are  in my other posts.

2  I don't see ash as you do to begin with (look up sheps  romance talk  in me 3 to give you  a basic idea )  and IMO  everything in ME3  was  an improvement to one of the already   best characters  in the series

Modifié par NovaBlastMarketing, 26 mars 2013 - 11:36 .

[NovaBlastMarketing]

retracted 

Modifié par NovaBlastMarketing, 26 mars 2013 - 11:32 .

[Jayce]

For me, as I like Ash and Kaidan pretty equally, it ultimately comes down to which skill set I want to retain and that in turn depends more on what class I'm playing than anything.

I like to keep my squad skills balanced so:

Soldier: Tali & Liara
Adept: Ashley & Tali
Engineer: Liara & Ashley
Infiltrator: Garrus & Liara
Vanguard: Wrex & Tali
Sentinel: Wrex & Garrus

Kaidan is pretty much a 5th wheel after Eden Prime.

Modifié par Jayce F, 27 mars 2013 - 12:14 .

[Marek Intan]

She embarrassed me on the Citadel in ME1 ("I can't tell the aliens from the animals!" in earshot of an elcor ambassador who I was trying to help). So, hell, yeah I killed her.

[Texhnolyze101]

I flip a quarter heads for ash and tails for kaidan whenever i replay ME1.

[Zeldrik1389]

I found Kaidan more useful in battle as well as a better character than Ashley. Ash always annoy the hell outa me, and her reading poems doesn't help at all. I only saved Ashley once, only to shoot her dead later in ME 3. Gameplay wise, Kaidan fits me better since I use power combo a lot. And if I need a shooter, Garrus or Vega is more than enough to fill the role.

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 27 mars 2013 - 02:49 .

[Element Zero]

JigOS wrote...

I like your pragmatic reasoning, but I have some issue with it: The bomb is presumably military hardware, meant for deployment in any field, and thus would have been designed to be operated by standard military personel. Furthermore, the mission involves arming a bomb, not disarming it. Kaidan's technical expertise is unnecessary.

Not so. The "bomb" is the drive core of the salarian ship, not standard military hardware with which either character would have training. On my very first playthrough, I sent Kaidan with nuke for precisely that reason, figuring he might be the better choice. I also went back and saved him partially out of concern for the bomb. It was about 50/50 after that.

Ash pissed me off more in ME2, as Kaidan's apology email seemed a bit more contrite, but I got over that. The ****** poor writing for Ash in ME3 is harder to overcome. It's pretty weak, whereas Kaidan was very well done (all my opinion, obviously). The fact that I don't need another Soldier in my party, utility wise, doesn't help, either. Power combos make Kaidan a very good squadmate.

I still do playthroughs with each, but ME3 pushed me from liking Kaidan a bit more to strongly preferring him over Ash. It sucks, since variety is great. Sadly, Ash's ME3 writer was not.

[mtmercydave09]

I always keep Ash alive (because she'd be Shepard's LI), but I really do wish in ME3 that she was utilized more. I mean granted yes she was in the hospital most of it, but even afterwards she'd only really talk to Shepard. Ash could have been expanded upon in ME3.

[Han Shot First]

I kept Ashley alive on Virmire because I initally went into the game unspoiled, and had Kaidan at the bomb site. Since he also had a tech background I thought he'd be better suited to baby suit the nuke. When it came to choose between them, I had Shepard rescue Ashley because she was with the Salarians. I was trying to maximize the amount of people Shepard could rescue. I also figured that Kaidan could trigger the bomb if he was about to get overrun.

[andy6915]

Liara cowers because it's been several days (or more) since she even ate or slept. Biotics take a certain amount of energy and calories to use, which she was lacking substantially in on both counts. She actually tries to flare her biotics up and help, at which point her biotic aura ends after only a second or 2, which is when she ducks down. It wasn't that she was afraid exactly, it was that she knew she couldn't fight for herself because of being awake for days and being literally starving.

[nos_astra]

andy69156915 wrote...
Liara cowers because it's been several days (or more) since she even ate or slept. Biotics take a certain amount of energy and calories to use, which she was lacking substantially in on both counts. She actually tries to flare her biotics up and help, at which point her biotic aura ends after only a second or 2, which is when she ducks down. It wasn't that she was afraid exactly, it was that she knew she couldn't fight for herself because of being awake for days and being literally starving.

That doesn't change that it's extremely weird that for a virginal asari archeologist to fight alongside an N7. I mention the virginal part because Bioware made sure she was presented as innocent, cute and socially awkward.

There's a giant leap from "I can hold my own against pirates and scavengers" to "I can easily replace fully trained, handpicked marines".

Why not make her a matriarch then? Someone really experienced who has seen everything? Makes me wonder whether she was created as a character or designed to be a love interest first and foremost.

Modifié par klarabella, 27 mars 2013 - 10:04 .

[andy6915]

Are you seriously using the fact that she's a virgin as a sign that she's a bad fighter? What the f...?

Yes, she isn't in Shepard's league. But then again, who IS? A C-Sec cop? 2 marines who AREN'T N7 themselves? A Quarian teenanger? Wrex is the only one who might be in Shepard's league. Frankly, Tali is much harder to accept being allowed to join as Liara is, and you're forced to take her along too (try to decline and Udina's pretty much "no, she'll be useful so I'm going to force her into the party anyway").

And again... Don't use the fact that a woman is a virgin to say she can't fight. I mean, that's the dumbest freaking thing I've heard all year.

[nos_astra]

andy69156915 wrote...
Are you seriously using the fact that she's a virgin as a sign that she's a bad fighter? What the f...?

No, I said that making her a virgin carries certain connotations. It wasn't necessary at all, yet they put emphasis on this fact which in turn feeds into the picture of Liara as inexperienced damsel in distress.

What I'm saying is that even back in ME1 Liara was in inconsistent mess. A concept that could have made sense derailed by misguided fanservice. As I said, there was no reason not to make her a several hundred years old matriarch to justify her recruitment.

Yes, she isn't in Shepard's league. But then again, who IS? A C-Sec cop? 2 marines who AREN'T N7 themselves? A Quarian teenanger? Wrex is the only one who might be in Shepard's league.

Let's just say I find the squad in ME1 for the most part quite disturbing and nonsenscial. 

Modifié par klarabella, 27 mars 2013 - 10:28 .

[andy6915]

"Let's just say I find the squad in ME1 for the most part quite disturbing and nonsenscial."

Fine, but don't just complain about Liara as if she's the only one that has that problem.

[Han Shot First]

klarabella wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...
Liara cowers because it's been several days (or more) since she even ate or slept. Biotics take a certain amount of energy and calories to use, which she was lacking substantially in on both counts. She actually tries to flare her biotics up and help, at which point her biotic aura ends after only a second or 2, which is when she ducks down. It wasn't that she was afraid exactly, it was that she knew she couldn't fight for herself because of being awake for days and being literally starving.

That doesn't change that it's extremely weird that for a virginal asari archeologist to fight alongside an N7. I mention the virginal part because Bioware made sure she was presented as innocent, cute and socially awkward.

There's a giant leap from "I can hold my own against pirates and scavengers" to "I can easily replace fully trained, handpicked marines".

Why not make her a matriarch then? Someone really experienced who has seen everything? Makes me wonder whether she was created as a character or designed to be a love interest first and foremost.

Bioware has a 'thing' for awkward, virginal female characters in games. It is a common character template for them. (Liara, Tali, Merrill)

Thankfully most of that aspect of Liara's personality was shelved in ME2 and LotSB and shifted to Tali. I thought she became much more interesting after ME1.

[David7204]

Let's not pretend we're discovering archetypes, now. Inexperience is a meaningful trait like any other.

By the way, you'd to smart to pick people like Liara and Tali over some grunts any day of the week. Soldiers are a dime a dozen, even experienced ones. And anyone can become experienced.

But a person courageous enough to drop their old life and join a crew like the Normandy? That's one in a million. And that's valuable as hell. You'll never get that out of 99.9999% of people.

Modifié par David7204, 27 mars 2013 - 12:15 .

[nos_astra]

David7204 wrote...
meaningful

New definition of the word is "stuff that David7204 thinks is good or important".

By the way, you'd to smart to pick people like Liara and Tali over some grunts any day of the week. Soldiers are a dime a dozen, even experienced ones. And anyone can become experienced.

That sort of thing is common in fanfiction. it's unsurprising that it's usually attributed to Mary Sue characters. You really seem to have a thing for them.

Modifié par klarabella, 27 mars 2013 - 01:24 .

[Reikilea]

andy69156915 wrote...

Are you seriously using the fact that she's a virgin as a sign that she's a bad fighter? What the f...?

Yes, she isn't in Shepard's league. But then again, who IS? A C-Sec cop? 2 marines who AREN'T N7 themselves? A Quarian teenanger? Wrex is the only one who might be in Shepard's league. Frankly, Tali is much harder to accept being allowed to join as Liara is, and you're forced to take her along too (try to decline and Udina's pretty much "no, she'll be useful so I'm going to force her into the party anyway").

And again... Don't use the fact that a woman is a virgin to say she can't fight. I mean, that's the dumbest freaking thing I've heard all year.

Yes. Being virgin has nothing to do with her fight proveness, but the whole point of her participating in field fighting is wierd.  Tali and Liara have no reason to be fighting alongside Shepard. However, both of the have reason to be helping Shepard. As long as one stays in engineering and other one stays prothean expert. I would be more glad if their sudden battle proveness was more justified. Like it was for Mordin - the fighting scientist. I had no trouble believing him. But to believe Liara and Tali would be able to fight. Not that much.

And I am pretty sure that 2 marines specially trained for field work and cooperation would handle Shepard. It cant be the first time they fought with N. Especially if Kaidan is the head of marine detail. Yes they are not as strong as Shepard, that´s why he is commanding officer a they are his team. Mostly because they have the same fighting metods. And Garrus with his turian military training would suit them just fine. 

However, Wrex never struck me as a cooperating/team type. He is best when working alone.  I think he would  have had a problem fighting under human and listening to his commands. Unless they fight separately and all Shepard does is to point out at the geth saying Kill it, Wrex.

[Lars10178]

I had no idea this thread was still alive.

[HolyAvenger]

Liara and Tali provide tech and biotic expertise abilities in the field that none of the "grizzled" combat vets can. I've facerolled through ME1 insanity with a Liara/Tali/Shep team.

[Ryzaki]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Liara and Tali provide tech and biotic expertise abilities in the field that none of the "grizzled" combat vets can. I've facerolled through ME1 insanity with a Liara/Tali/Shep team.

This.

that's exactly why a Shep would bring them along. Tali's expertise on the geth and Liara's biotic abilities (always helps to have a biotic on hand).

Not that strange at all.

[nos_astra]

HolyAvenger wrote..
Liara and Tali provide tech and biotic expertise abilities in the field that none of the "grizzled" combat vets can. I've facerolled through ME1 insanity with a Liara/Tali/Shep team.

We weren't talking about gameplay, though.

[andy6915]

Well, even though I said Tali is even harder to believe... Tali has "the best military training in the Quarian fleet*". And unless she only got that training in the 2 years between ME1 and ME2, Tali even in ME1 is one of the best fighters of the Quarian people. If she told Shepard that off-screen, then it could make sense for Shepard to figure she's good enough to bring to a mission.

*source: