306 réponses à ce sujet

[HolyAvenger]

klarabella wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote..
Liara and Tali provide tech and biotic expertise abilities in the field that none of the "grizzled" combat vets can. I've facerolled through ME1 insanity with a Liara/Tali/Shep team.

We weren't talking about gameplay, though.

 

Your whole statement about how it was weird for a virgin asari archaelogist to fight alongside N7s and such is totally justified by the gameplay.

She can do stuff no one else in your squad can. 

[Reikilea]

Ryzaki wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Liara and Tali provide tech and biotic expertise abilities in the field that none of the "grizzled" combat vets can. I've facerolled through ME1 insanity with a Liara/Tali/Shep team.

This.

that's exactly why a Shep would bring them along. Tali's expertise on the geth and Liara's biotic abilities (always helps to have a biotic on hand).

Not that strange at all.

But what kind of expertise we are talking about.. All theoretical.  She never even met geth before. And after her loyalty mission in ME2 I dont think they have geth part lying around in fleet. And Shepard is now spectre, I sure that got him/her acces to many interesting information about geth. If we go this way, the person  with most experience on Geth is Ash. After all she was there when they reappeared after 200 hundred years.

And there are three biotics on your squad in ME. So it´s not really about who is biotic, it´s more about using them in combat. And I am not sure she has thach much experience in that. Moreover ME3 party banter suggest the same.

It´s would be very strange to bring teenage quarian and shy archaelogist to fight - in real life. However in games logical stuff often gets ignored.

But yeah I do understand why you guys woudl take them, but to me - if I was a soldiet I don´t think that I would want to be backed up in fight by those two. Too risky. On the other hand,  I dont have this problem with Kaidan, Ash, Garrus and Wrex.

Modifié par Reikilea, 27 mars 2013 - 03:21 .

[andy6915]

Never even met Geth before? Then...

What



Is



this?



That's the Homeworlds comic, which shows the events that transpired to Tali before meeting Shepard.

[HolyAvenger]

Yeah, Tali brings along the evidence to convict Saren which kicks off the main plot. She mentions she got that from hacking a geth unit.

Liara's biotic abilities are also (somewhere) mentioned as being as strong as asari matriarch's.

[Exile Isan]

As andy69156915 has pointed out Tali has met geth before. It's how you end up with your evidence against Saren in ME1. She took it from a geth memory core, a geth she killed.

I wouldn't go so far to say that Liara's biotics rival a matriarch, but she is a skilled biotic. That said the only place in ME1 I take her, when I'm not romancing her, is Noveria. Just because I feel bad about dragging her into such dangerous situations. Now in ME3 I don't care Liara can handle herself.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 27 mars 2013 - 03:43 .

[nos_astra]

I don't think it was stated in ME1 that she got that geth killed herself.

*shrug* I don't care much for the extended universe stuff. Retroactive justification doesn't really impress me. It's on par with Liara's personality changes.

Just accept that some people would have liked a bit more reason behind the squad setup.

[Exile Isan]

klarabella wrote...
I don't think it was stated in ME1 that she got that geth killed herself.

Shepard: "Tell us what you found."
Tali: "During my travels I began to hear reports of Geth. Since they drove my people into exile, the geth have never ventured beyond the Veil. I was curious. I tracked a patrol of geth to an uncharted world. I waited for one to become separated from it's unit. Then I disabled it and removed it's memory core."
Anderson: "I thought the Geth fried their memory core when they died? Some kind of defense mechinism."
Shepard: "How did you manage to preserve the memory core?"
Tali: "My people created the Geth. If you're quick, careful, and lucky small caches of data can sometimes be saved."

Sounds like she did it on her own to me. And it sounds like knew exactly what to do to salvage the memory core, too.

I never liked that particular homeworlds comic. She makes absolutely no mention of anyone being with her when you first meet her in ME1 or ME3 when you talk to her on the Presidium. Yet in the comic she had help on that uncharted world and a friend who got killed by Saren's men on the Citadel, but she doesn't confide this to Shepard, who (at least in my case) is like her big sister by the end of ME1? Uh-huh. Yeah, the reason she didn't was because she was alone.

nitpick/ Also in that comic she gets shot in the wrong place. Tali tells us in ME3 she got shot in arm, but (IIRC) in that comic she it shot in the side. /nitpick

Modifié par Exile Isan, 27 mars 2013 - 04:02 .

[nos_astra]

Exile Isan wrote...

klarabella wrote...
I don't think it was stated in ME1 that she got that geth killed herself.

Shepard: "Tell us what you found."
Tali: "During my travels I began to hear reports of Geth. Since they drove my people into exile, the geth have never ventured beyond the Veil. I was curious. I tracked a patrol of geth to an uncharted world. I waited for one to become separated from it's unit. Then I disabled it and removed it's memory core."
Anderson: "I thought the Geth fried their memory core when they died? Some kind of defense mechinism."
Shepard: "How did you manage to preserve the memory core?"
Tali: "My people created the Geth. If you're quick, careful, and lucky small caches of data can sometimes be saved."

Sounds like she did it on her own to me. And it sounds like knew exactly what to do to salvage the memory core, too.

Fair enough. 

[Ryzaki]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yeah, Tali brings along the evidence to convict Saren which kicks off the main plot. She mentions she got that from hacking a geth unit.

Liara's biotic abilities are also (somewhere) mentioned as being as strong as asari matriarch's.

^ said it before I could.

[Reikilea]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yeah, Tali brings along the evidence to convict Saren which kicks off the main plot. She mentions she got that from hacking a geth unit.

Liara's biotic abilities are also (somewhere) mentioned as being as strong as asari matriarch's.

I never questioned Liara´s biotic abilities. Only her battle proveness. One thing is to have them, other is to suddenly use them is real firefight. Every asari has biotic abilities and yet many of them ends up being strippers. Or scholars as Liara.

Ok I admit, Tali disabled one Geth. That´s the theoretical knowledge put to use and exactly the reason why she should be in a story (and why she is, because her role is to be an introduction to the whole quarian race), but I still would´t take her to fight. Or rather rely on her in the fight. Small (search for this, examine this) missions maybe, but not really big ones with lot of combat.

Actually what kicks the main lot is Saren and the beacon, from naratology point of view, but let´s not get there. Tali opens the second act.

(oh expanded universe and comics. That´s how you mend the mistakes you did in the original story).

Modifié par Reikilea, 27 mars 2013 - 07:35 .

[ChuckTesla]

Wait, Liara's biotics are as strong as a matriarch's? The Archaeologist who cowers upon seeing a Krogan on Therum and is 1/10 the age of the most powerful and wise Asari in the galaxy is just as good manipulating dark energy?

[Barquiel]

ChuckTesla wrote...

Wait, Liara's biotics are as strong as a matriarch's? The Archaeologist who cowers upon seeing a Krogan on Therum and is 1/10 the age of the most powerful and wise Asari in the galaxy is just as good manipulating dark energy?

Well, she can master singularity which as far as the lore goes only the most powerful biotics can accomplish. I think Aria, Samara and Morinth are more powerful though.

On Therum, Liara is unarmed, she has no armor and she's been in her bubble for god knows how long (biotics require a lot more food than normal people...so her biotics are at most unstable). She's obviously not in shape for fighting a krogan battlemaster and an army of geth.

Modifié par Barquiel, 27 mars 2013 - 07:47 .

[HolyAvenger]

Reikilea wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yeah, Tali brings along the evidence to convict Saren which kicks off the main plot. She mentions she got that from hacking a geth unit.

Liara's biotic abilities are also (somewhere) mentioned as being as strong as asari matriarch's.

I never questioned Liara´s biotic abilities. Only her battle proveness. One thing is to have them, other is to suddenly use them is real firefight. Every asari has biotic abilities and yet many of them ends up being strippers. Or scholars as Liara.

She tells you herself she's learnt to fight off mercenaries and scavengers and other unsavoury types around dig sites etc.

If you choose not to believe her:whistle:

[vonfantasy]

I've never saved Kaidan :S Maybe on my next playthrough...

[rrtda]

In ME1 it was never a matter of who I liked more, it was who I hated less, and Kaidan won b/c he isn't a racist.

[rrtda]

Rubios wrote...

In ME3 Kaidan is a vastly better character, that's a fact™.

[Reikilea]

I never questioned Liara´s biotic abilities. Only her battle proveness. In firefight.

I can repeat it once again, but her transition from quiet bookish type to fearsome soldier in like days is suspicious. Nah anyway it´s a game., it´s not like she can die in a fight.

[SinerAthin]

Reikilea wrote...

I never questioned Liara´s biotic abilities. Only her battle proveness. In firefight.

I can repeat it once again, but her transition from quiet bookish type to fearsome soldier in like days is suspicious. Nah anyway it´s a game., it´s not like she can die in a fight.

I guess she entered a hardcore training program after ME1?

The time between the end of ME1 and the start of ME2 was pretty... long. ME1 was kind'a like her baptism in fire.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 27 mars 2013 - 11:33 .

[Hazegurl]

Reikilea wrote...

But yeah I do understand why you guys woudl take them, but to me - if I was a soldiet I don´t think that I would want to be backed up in fight by those two. Too risky. On the other hand,  I dont have this problem with Kaidan, Ash, Garrus and Wrex.

I agree. Tali could stay on the Normany for providing any info on Geth before we are sent to the ground. But actually have her watching my back in a fight, no thanks. Liara is plain useless. I always pick her up right before going to IIos. She's just needed to tell me where to go to find Saren.

[NovaBlastMarketing]

rrtda wrote...

Rubios wrote...

In ME3 Kaidan is a vastly better character, that's a fact™.

 

 opinion 

Ashley was more popular and survived more  - that  is an  example of a fact  because it is confirmed by offical pax data Despite  how much anyone wants to poke holes  in that  result.

rrtda wrote...

In ME1 it was never a matter of who I liked more, it was who I hated less, and Kaidan won b/c he isn't a racist.

I disagree that Ashley is a racist  but am not going to debate  the point other than provide this context.

If Ashley is in the party while you speak with Charles Saracino, if you ask him what Terra Firma stands for, he will say that "Earth must stand firm from alien influence." in which Ashley will be unimpressed saying that it's too bad that so many of their followers are just racist

 In ME1 during  the female shep  romance path you can turn kaiden into a xenophobic pro human renegade.

Shepard can discuss this with him and (if female) can even Charm or Intimidate Kaidan into becoming much more xenophobic and pro-humanity.

http://masseffect.wi...i/Kaidan_Alenko

Modifié par NovaBlastMarketing, 28 mars 2013 - 12:48 .

[Jayce]

Ashley isn't a racist or a xenophobe, she just has personal trust issues and is dubious that the council isn't ultimately the Turian, Salarian and Asari's way of placing their own interests ahead of everyone else's. If you recall her analogy about sicking a dog on a Grizzly bear in ME1, then watch the first council meeting in ME3, she's proven correct.

[Frostmourne86]

And don't forget, in that analogy we're the dog while the Counciil is the owner/man.

[andy6915]

renegade Kaidan:

[Adoramei]

Jayce F wrote...

Ashley isn't a racist or a xenophobe, she just has personal trust issues and is dubious that the council isn't ultimately the Turian, Salarian and Asari's way of placing their own interests ahead of everyone else's. If you recall her analogy about sicking a dog on a Grizzly bear in ME1, then watch the first council meeting in ME3, she's proven correct.

She's not clairvoyant. Being "proven right" doesn't justify a dislike/distrust based on race. And unfortunately, she agreed with that analogy saying that her feelings were aligned with it as if she would do the same. I do not like her views, but don't get me wrong. I accept her as a character. Just a character I don't like for my own reasons. Nothing wrong with finding a character offensive. It means that the character was effective by getting an emotional response. Good and bad. Humans aren't perfect, after all.