471 réponses à ce sujet

[Overdosing]

Could having optional censoring solve the trouble with the sales of future Dragon Age games like Inquisition?

[andy6915]

Nudity doesn't equal AO rating... AT ALL.

Gaming has progressed enough as a medium now that nudity should be no bigger a deal then it is in movies. It's not like nudity is a big deal anymore, not with God of War 3 putting topless woman all throughout it, and the nude scenes in Witcher 2, or having the final boss of Dante's Inferno have his 3 foot long hotdog just hanging there during every scene he's in and even during the boss fight, or Heavy Rain's nude scenes, or Red Dead Redemption's sex scene during the Mexico arc. ALL have a mere M rating.

[BeatoSama]

The Witcher 2 was released censored in the U.S. though wasn't it?
But yeah nudity does not mean an AO rating. Explicit sex (even when censored) can mean this though. Most stuff that would receive AO ratings actually aren't rated at all since having an AO rating actually lowers sales. Even for porn (games).

Modifié par BeatoSama, 03 avril 2013 - 04:08 .

[andy6915]

No. I bought my copy right from freaking Wal-Mart, right off the shelf all the other games were on. And right there in the opening scene was Trish's nipples. Sex scene later in the game=nipples.

Modifié par andy69156915, 03 avril 2013 - 04:16 .

[BeatoSama]

I'm not disagreeing with you.
I don't think the Witcher would warrant an AO rating either.
I was just clarifying for the person that asked about the AO rating that anything that makes your game receive an AO rating is a no-go.

[andy6915]

They don't want to... Because the Fox News thing scared them. A reason for something isn't "I don't want to", there's always a reason behind that. Not wanting to is an effect, not a cause.

[BeatoSama]

Or maybe they just feel that there is no need to show their characters naked.
Or maybe they don't want to model and texture a new (or several) body-models for a short scene when there are so many other things I'm sure they'd rather spend their time and money on.
There are dozens of reasons as to why they won't have naked characters.

Modifié par BeatoSama, 03 avril 2013 - 04:46 .

[Ridwan]

andy69156915 wrote...

They don't want to... Because the Fox News thing scared them. A reason for something isn't "I don't want to", there's always a reason behind that. Not wanting to is an effect, not a cause.

Scared them? It was massive free publicity on one of the biggest channels in the U.S. And after it got exposed (no pun intended) that you could hardly see anything they never followed it up.

I keep reading that nudity isn't a big deal and that they should show it, well if it isn't a big deal then WHY should they show it?

[andy6915]

@BeatoSama

So are we just going to start speculating their motives without evidence? Because that's pretty much what you're doing there. Fact is, your speculation on why is no better or worse then mine. Until Bioware answers for themselves WHY they don't want to, guessing is pointless.

They should show it because fade-to-black in a game that has blood and gore is just hypocritical and childish. Underwear dry-humping, even more so.

[David Gaider]

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

[Ridwan]

David Gaider wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

Then you're not an artist if you don't want pixel porn in games.

Modifié par M25105, 03 avril 2013 - 05:08 .

[Zeldrik1389]

What's the point of in game nudity? If you enjoy that sort of things, there are millions free porn / hentai sites on the internet. Go and do whatever you want over there instead of bugging developers about it. Their time, effort, and money are better spent on other things (story, graphich, gameplay..etc..)

[andy6915]

I get that Bioware doesn't want to, David Gaider. But like I said, not wanting to is an effect not a cause. People don't want to do things because they don't want to, they don't want to because of an underlying reason. Saying you don't want to isn't an explanation of why you don't, it's a conclusion of why you don't. There's always a specific reason behind why someone does or doesn't want to do something. And right now, Bioware is being tight-lipped on that specific reason.

Not that I'm saying that you need to give that reason up. That's up to you and the company you work for. I'm just saying using "they don't want to/we don't want to" isn't a reason or explanation at all, and trying to say it is one is hollow.

[Dave of Canada]

I still remember when everyone was against the underwear for Dragon Age 2, the screens released (one pictured below) on Valentine's Day pre-release made everyone excited that underwear wasn't going to be present in Dragon Age 2. Then they did it anyway.



There's a line between what marketing does and says and what actually happens.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 03 avril 2013 - 05:07 .

[llandwynwyn]

Bioware only likes nudity when it involves Liara, then.

[andy6915]

Honestly, I actually agree that tasteful camera angles and stuff would work. remember my post a few pages ago?

andy69156915 wrote...

They should do what they did with Liara in ME3. Liara has a nude model-



But as you can see, she lacks certain "details" of anatomy. I would prefer Bioware just do the grown-up thing and just make the actual nudity and not shy away from it when Dragon Age is already the equivalent of an R-rated movie. But if they won't go that far, this would be better then underwear dry humping or mosaics. All they need to do is do what they do with Liara and use clever camera angles so they don't show how they lack features.

It would be better then the current setups with nudity. I would ABSOLUTELY prefer the nudity to just be real and there, but this would be an improvement.

[Ridwan]

scyphozoa wrote...

I would much prefer implied nudity, like seeing men or women naked from the upper-back quadrant, it is enough to imply/understand the characters are nude, without the silliness of wearing underwear during sex or shower scenes.

Trust me, the last thing I care about is nudie game characters, but I do care about suspension of disbelief and being able to take scenes seriously. There has got to be a better cinematic design solution than the underwear.

Yup, that or fade to black. The thing is though you got some people who put the Witcher 2 up on a pedestal cause they showed ****** and now they want Bioware to copy that.

[Dominari]

andy69156915 wrote...

They don't want to... Because the Fox News thing scared them. A reason for something isn't "I don't want to", there's always a reason behind that. Not wanting to is an effect, not a cause.

There is always a reason and the reason is money.  Always.  Bioware does not do nudity because they feel the game will make more without nudity than with.  It really is as simple as that.  Fox News mentioning your game is not somthing you fear, but something you calculate.  Additional sales caused by media attention vs loss of sales to teens over an M rating. Where is the bigest piece of the pie.  Well, that's where they make a stand for their moral integrity. 

"We believe in equality for all people.  It has always baffelrd us how the double standard still remains between men and women.  Anywahere a man can go topless should be equally acceptable for women as well.  We will no longer abide this acceptaded sexism and stand by our design team and their integrity to do what is right."

"Gatuitous nudity has no place in today's entertainment industry.  Games are no different.  When a parent buys a game for their children we belive they should feel secure in knowing they will not be exposed to questionable material of a sexual nature.  We applaude or design team for taking this stand and for their moral integrity."

♪♫You spin me right round, Baby, right round. Like a record, Baby ...

[Fredvdp]

I think Mass Effect 1 did it best. The characters are nude, but the poses and camera positioning cover it. You keep the realism, and when your mom walks in the room, it's still less awkward than The Witcher 2.

[hoorayforicecream]

Dominari wrote...

There is always a reason and the reason is money.  Always.  Bioware does not do nudity because they feel the game will make more without nudity than with.  It really is as simple as that.  Fox News mentioning your game is not somthing you fear, but something you calculate.  Additional sales caused by media attention vs loss of sales to teens over an M rating. Where is the bigest piece of the pie.  Well, that's where they make a stand for their moral integrity. 

This is untrue. If it was really all about money at the development level, the vast majority of game developers would not be game developers. I've been a software engineer and game designer for a decade now (with some time off for good behavior), and I know for a fact that I could be making a lot more money for significantly less time invested. There are similar situations for practically any industry profession aside from game designers. Working on B2B, simulation, or heck - even casino software is much more lucrative than AAA game development, especially given the stability factor.

In my years of experience, the vast majority of people work in the game industry because they want to make games. They want to make the best game that they can, and they don't see how adding nipples and dangly bits to their models will help them do that, when they could have the modelers and texture artists spend that time to create new armor, new weapons, or new characters instead. It really shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

[Maria Caliban]

EntropicAngel wrote...
Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

Except the Mass Effect series has had nudity, which suggests David is speaking for himself, not 'BioWare.'

[andy6915]

^
Right. Brood mothers (including the human one in Awakening)...

[Dasher1010]

David Gaider wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

I'd rather have a fade to black rather than dry hump in underpants. Ther'es a differnce between tasteful and comically bowlderized. A simple fade to black with a kiss would work and in many ways still be, "mature."

Modifié par Dasher1010, 03 avril 2013 - 05:53 .