471 réponses à ce sujet

[N7KnightSabre]

David Gaider wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

I like that Bioware doesn't do that.  I'm not a fan of showing full nudity sex scenes.  I think subtlety is much sexier.  The romance scene in the first Mass Effect was as risque as needed.  Very tastefully done. 

[Wulfram]

When I think back to the DA romance scenes, I think that bedsheets are mostly what's needed. They're how movies/TV have similar scenes with implied nudity without showing more than they want to.

[Maria Caliban]

Give me side boob... or give me death!

[Thetford]

I only mentioned AO because I was unsure what merited the rating or not. I'm not particularly fond of the idea of full frontal nudity in the game, A, it will be more work than the payoff, B, it seems to be only wanted for nudity's sake, and C, there is a growing concern about young people's attitudes towards body image, and make them doubt what is normal. So that is genitalia out for me (not in that way).

In regards to butt and boobs, that is more questionable, since that is more softcore than the hardcore of the above.

In the end, it makes me ask, why do so many people want so much effort put in to a titillating ten second clip, then arguing, it's mature. In the end, can't people just agree on suggestive camera angles and shadows? Why does the camera need to show the lower body at all?

[mousestalker]

Why not have the best of both worlds? Dress the dolls in underwear, then pixelate them. Win-win!

[MisanthropePrime]

David Gaider wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

What about how the Mass Effect franchise handled it, especially in the first game? The sex scenes, if I remember correctly, had full (but not frontal) nudity.

[Allan Schumacher]

That would probably fall under the "other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity"

[Babaganoosh013]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...
I believe Gaider has said before (and please correct me if I'm wrong, David):

Bioware doesn't do nudity because Bioware doesn't want to.

This is indeed the case. It's odd that someone would think the only reason one wouldn't have nudity is either because someone forced them not to have it or because they were scared to include it-- as if "tasteful" wasn't a factor. Says a lot about those people, I think. I'm not a big fan of the Dragon Age Underwear ™ myself, but there are other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity.

What about how the Mass Effect franchise handled it, especially in the first game? The sex scenes, if I remember correctly, had full (but not frontal) nudity.

It contained congrassionally disapproved alien side-boob and cheek.

[aphelion4]

Just out of curiosity how many pro full on nudity guys here would actually be okay with FULL ON MALE NUDITY as well? As in PENIS? Seems fair to me if you want boobs and vulva on your screen. If it's just female nipples you want, then whatever.

Personally I would feel much less awkward/horrified if they just used fade-to-black or carefully placed camera angles. I'm not against nudity in the artistic sense/personal bedroom stuff sense, but if it's only purpose is to just be there for the sake of it, then that's incredibly lame. I don't watch porn nor do I have any interest in ever watching it. And I especially don't want it in a game I'm not expecting it in. Otherwise I will avoid it and go play something else that isn't trying hard to be cool and "shocking". Also can we say awkward much? Watching a scene some animator spent hours upon hours making for the sole purpose of getting some kid off? Ew.

inb4 YOU THINK VIOLENCE IS OKAY/BIBLE THUMPER/FOX NEWS WATCHER/UPTIGHT AMERICAN PRUDE/12-YEAR OLD, etc, etc.

Modifié par aphelion4, 03 avril 2013 - 07:07 .

[Renmiri1]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
* snip *

Working on B2B, simulation, or heck - even casino software is much[/i] more lucrative than AAA game development, especially given the stability factor.

In my years of experience, the vast majority of people work in the game industry because they want to make games. They want to make the best game that they can, and they don't see how adding nipples and dangly bits to their models will help them do that, when they could have the modelers and texture artists spend that time to create new armor, new weapons, or new characters instead. It really shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.

So much this!

I agree 300% with game devs and Gaider. Why spend zots, time and money animating 10 second clips that are available for free and much more "realistic" on the endless wave of web pr0n already existing ?

Fade to black, good camera angles and little sexy underware (agreed, long pants are going overboard) are more then enough. Those are easy, don't consume a lot of time or dev resources and are way more fun then watching Ken and Barbie dolls rolling around awkwardly. 

[MisanthropePrime]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

What about how the Mass Effect franchise handled it, especially in the first game? The sex scenes, if I remember correctly, had full (but not frontal) nudity.

Pardon me for how...blunt I'm going to be, but...

What if my character doesn't act like they would in the cutscene? What if X Hawke/Warden doesn't want to stroke their companion, but wants to get right down to business? What if they dislike foreplay and wish to forego it? Conversely, what if it's Y Hawke/Warden's first time, and they're nervous? Want to take it slow? Have never kissed a [insert gender] before? All of the easy stroking and moving in ME1's scene will be awfully out of character.

Fade-to-black, alleviates all that.

I agree, because I know how hard it is to properly model, texture and animate bondage equipment.

If only my warrior could club hurlocks to death with a spreader bar...

Did I say that out loud?

[Renmiri1]

MisanthropePrime wrote...

I agree, because I know how hard it is to properly model, texture and animate bondage equipment.

If only my warrior could club hurlocks to death with a spreader bar...

Did I say that out loud?

Heh, I have a lot of friends in Second Life... The land who invented Yiffing 

The first guy who motion captured and translated the Kama Sutra to Second Life animations got very rich. He and his girlfriend spent over a year doing it though, before they saw any money out of it, though.

Bottom line:  to be well done it takes dedication, time and effort, just like anything else. People who are into that sort of thing are already working for hentai / pr0n or Second Life stuff and not working 9-5 on a game dev studio. 
Be happy with the amateur stuff you get for free from Nexus Mods or such because anyone that does that for a living already has a lucrative job and is not working for corporate game makers.

And you may not agree with their version of "sexy"

Modifié par Renmiri1, 03 avril 2013 - 07:28 .

[chuckles471]

aphelion4 wrote...

Just out of curiosity how many pro full on nudity guys here would actually be okay with FULL ON MALE NUDITY as well? As in PENIS? Seems fair to me if you want boobs and vulva on your screen. If it's just female nipples you want, then whatever.

Personally I would feel much less awkward/horrified if they just used fade-to-black or carefully placed camera angles. I'm not against nudity in the artistic sense/personal bedroom stuff sense, but if it's only purpose is to just be there for the sake of it, then that's incredibly lame. I don't watch porn nor do I have any interest in ever watching it. And I especially don't want it in a game I'm not expecting it in. Otherwise I will avoid it and go play something else that isn't trying hard to be cool and "shocking". Also can we say awkward much? Watching a scene some animator spent hours upon hours making for the sole purpose of getting some kid off? Ew.

inb4 YOU THINK VIOLENCE IS OKAY/BIBLE THUMPER/FOX NEWS WATCHER/UPTIGHT AMERICAN PRUDE/12-YEAR OLD, etc, etc.

Well the Lost and the Damned has full male nudity (the penis is actually animated).  And that had no problems with the media or it's audience but people still think GTA is the Hooker Murder Sim™.

Modifié par chuckles471, 03 avril 2013 - 07:48 .

[grumpymooselion]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That would probably fall under the "other ways to avoid that rather than going to all-out nudity"

The other ways work just fine too, again, the original Mass Effect and Liara scene, and, for some reason ONLY Liara scene in Mass Effect 3 took the 'other' route with tasteful clips that never showed anything, but implied in a manner that didn't overstay its welcome/get creepy. This works for either gender as well. Anyways, I always thought it was weird to see the Underwear thing DA:O and DA2, as well as ME2 and in every ME3 scene that wasn't Liara's when ME1 had done it tastefully prior to any of the rest being released.

[Mark of the Dragon]

I liked the way thay handled Liaras romance in ME3. It was sesitive, tasteful, and felt right for her character without turning into a porno. I also think as far as how the situation ME1 was good to.

I like tasteful nudity. I dont need to see anything explicit for it to be a pleasurable scene. It just has to be handled well and be adult without being there just so we can have nudity.

To this day Liara remains a favorite romance of mine, not just because of her character but because of how her love scenes were handled. I would like to see this become a normal thing for bioware romance's.

[Allan Schumacher]

Anyways, I always thought it was weird to see the Underwear thing DA:O and DA2

Wasn't DA2 primarily fading to black as well?

[TheShadowWolf911]

anyone else just not care?

[ForceXev]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

What about how the Mass Effect franchise handled it, especially in the first game? The sex scenes, if I remember correctly, had full (but not frontal) nudity.

Pardon me for how...blunt I'm going to be, but...

What if my character doesn't act like they would in the cutscene? What if X Hawke/Warden doesn't want to stroke their companion, but wants to get right down to business? What if they dislike foreplay and wish to forego it? Conversely, what if it's Y Hawke/Warden's first time, and they're nervous? Want to take it slow? Have never kissed a [insert gender] before? All of the easy stroking and moving in ME1's scene will be awfully out of character.

Fade-to-black, alleviates all that.

Fade to black is boring.  You could say that about almost any scene in the game, not just loves scenes.  What if my Hawke/Warden would have given the hero speech differently than the way they did it in the game - should be fade to black!  What if my Hawke/Warden would have killed the dragon by stabbing it in the eye not in the neck, it should have been fade to black!  You dan't steer every single action that the character makes in the game.  I don't see why a love scene is any different than any other cutscene that you don't have control over.

The first Mass Effect did it perfect, and it seems like Bioware has been struggling to find some alternative ways do it differently since then.  You could even have the characters nude and still show less than what was shown in Mass Effect.  With the right camera angles and positioning of arms and a sheet or blanket, you can have a nude love scene with all parts covered.  They do it on TV all the time.  I think a scene like that would be more tasteful than having the characters gyrate and grind on each other in their skivvies.  Those underwear love scenes are creepy, IMO.  I think they did it best in Mass Effect, but if the choice is between the creepy underwear gyrations or fade to black, I'll take fade to black.

Modifié par ForceXev, 03 avril 2013 - 08:54 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Anyways, I always thought it was weird to see the Underwear thing DA:O and DA2

Wasn't DA2 primarily fading to black as well?

I believe the complaint isn't about not seeing the act itself, but rather seeing the post-blackscreen characters in their underwear. I can see how it could break immersion for some, since it reminds me of how post-coital talk is often depicted in television broadcasts.

[Maria Caliban]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Pardon me for how...blunt I'm going to be, but...

What if my character doesn't act like they would in the cutscene?

Welcome to BioWare RPGs. Creating a cinematic experience is more important than making sure no one's personal vision of the PC is violated.