471 réponses à ce sujet

[Topsider]

It's hilarious that "mature" games can have extreme violence - blood, gore, decapitations, etc - but the mere sight of tasteful nudity is frowned upon. I doubt anyone wants hardcore sex (well, some people would) but underwear showers and fully clothed love scenes are just silly. Fade to black is a cop out. Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.

[imbs]

Topsider wrote...

Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.

bout time someone started talking sense in this horrendous thread

[Plaintiff]

Topsider wrote...

It's hilarious that "mature" games can have extreme violence - blood, gore, decapitations, etc - but the mere sight of tasteful nudity is frowned upon. I doubt anyone wants hardcore sex (well, some people would) but underwear showers and fully clothed love scenes are just silly. Fade to black is a cop out. Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.

I have nothing against sex scenes, but I don't see how their presence makes a game inherently more "mature" than a game that doesn't feature them. And the same goes for violence. In my experience films that show a lot of nudity and violence are generally aimed at a teenage audience. Teen comedies, teen 'slasher' flicks, etc.

But I don't want to spend several minutes watching a poorly animated scene with cheesy mood music that doesn't advance the plot or give me any insight into the characters.

Sex can be and often is an important milestone in the development of fictional relationships and the characters in those relationship, but it doesn't follow that the sex has to be shown, and certainly not in a graphic or explicit sense. Seeing how Anders behaves following the physical consummation of his relationship with Hawke tells me something about his character arc. Seeing his penis tells me nothing, except what his penis looks like, which is information I don't need.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 04 avril 2013 - 09:45 .

[imbs]

Maturity comes in from not differentiating based on anything but quality. Whichever is more suited to the scene should be used in all cases. Sadly we will get either the hilarious underwear sex or fade-to-black regardless of what would fit best.

Given those options I would vote for either fade to black or 0 romance whatsoever.

[Fiacre]

I'm still not sure how a fade to black for sex compares to a fade to black for combat or dialogue. Combat cutscenes don't have nearly as much potential to screw with the player's characterization of the PC. Dialogue actually has a significant amount of player input -- that's one of it's main draws, after all. Sex scenes can do the former by having a character who didn't even know what anal sex was be proficient enough at it to sex Zev up, but doesn't have the latter to avoid such things.

and as I said, I've nothing against nudity -- by all means, show the characters to be naked, there's little reason to get dressed for post-coital cuddling, and the underwear sex scenes really were silly -- or even sexual scenes that don't involve the player character. I'd just prefer not to facepalm at the sheer OOCness of some sex scene, just so that there's 20 seconds of the character models pawing at each other while naked.

[Topsider]

Plaintiff wrote...

Topsider wrote...

It's hilarious that "mature" games can have extreme violence - blood, gore, decapitations, etc - but the mere sight of tasteful nudity is frowned upon. I doubt anyone wants hardcore sex (well, some people would) but underwear showers and fully clothed love scenes are just silly. Fade to black is a cop out. Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.

I have nothing against sex scenes, but I don't see how their presence makes a game inherently more "mature" than a game that doesn't feature them. And the same goes for violence. In my experience films that show a lot of nudity and violence are generally aimed at a teenage audience. Teen comedies, teen 'slasher' flicks, etc.

But I don't want to spend several minutes watching a poorly animated scene with cheesy mood music that doesn't advance the plot or give me any insight into the characters.

Sex can be and often is an important milestone in the development of fictional relationships and the characters in those relationship, but it doesn't follow that the sex has to be shown, and certainly not in a graphic or explicit sense. Seeing how Anders behaves following the physical consummation of his relationship with Hawke tells me something about his character arc. Seeing his penis tells me nothing, except what his penis looks like, which is information I don't need.

If games were truly mature, a few brief tastefully shot love scenes would not even be an issue. They are just another part of the story/gameplay and would be accepted as such - like in a movie intended for adults, the audience knows that nudity and violence may be present.
I'm not talking about graphic sex or lingering full frontals, but when mature games with very mild nudity are condemned by certain media elements (ahem Fox News) you know there's a problem. Overreactions like that have led to the laughably bad underwear scenes we see today. It's better to play it safe than risk another "sex" controversy.

[Ridwan]

Does watching porn make you mature?

[Topsider]

M25105 wrote...

Does watching porn make you mature?

Porn is intended for adults, which means it's for a mature audience.

Watching it doesn't "make" you mature, but you're supposed to be mature (adult) in order to watch it. 

[Ridwan]

Topsider wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Does watching porn make you mature?

Porn is intended for adults, which means it's for a mature audience.

Watching it doesn't "make" you mature, but you're supposed to be mature (adult) in order to watch it. 

Yet there are no pornographic masterpieces and I can't think of anyone thinking that a porn actor/actress is an artist.

All of those fancy art films don't have full on sex scenes either, yet they're meant for a mature audience as well. So the whole "full on sex scenes" argument in games should be there since the game is for a mature audience doesn't really fly.

[Thetford]

Can't we all agree on the implied, rather than the explicit? Just mood lighting and camera angles (do we even need to see the lower body at all?), I'm surprised this topic has gone on for so long for an element that is about 10 seconds of the game.

[imbs]

logic is too hard innit m8

[Ridwan]

Thetford wrote...

Can't we all agree on the implied, rather than the explicit? Just mood lighting and camera angles (do we even need to see the lower body at all?), I'm surprised this topic has gone on for so long for an element that is about 10 seconds of the game.

Don't be, any thread dealing with actual gameplay never reach more than 2 pages. A thread about romance, sex, lore and so on. 10 + pages.

[Xilizhra]

M25105 wrote...

Thetford wrote...

Can't we all agree on the implied, rather than the explicit? Just mood lighting and camera angles (do we even need to see the lower body at all?), I'm surprised this topic has gone on for so long for an element that is about 10 seconds of the game.

Don't be, any thread dealing with actual gameplay never reach more than 2 pages. A thread about romance, sex, lore and so on. 10 + pages.

That's because there's relatively little to say in detail about the gameplay other than "make it good," and it's not an issue that evokes as much emotional passion as romance and sex do.

[Ridwan]

Xilizhra wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Thetford wrote...

Can't we all agree on the implied, rather than the explicit? Just mood lighting and camera angles (do we even need to see the lower body at all?), I'm surprised this topic has gone on for so long for an element that is about 10 seconds of the game.

Don't be, any thread dealing with actual gameplay never reach more than 2 pages. A thread about romance, sex, lore and so on. 10 + pages.

That's because there's relatively little to say in detail about the gameplay other than "make it good," and it's not an issue that evokes as much emotional passion as romance and sex do.

I know, also all the gameplay suggestions seems to mostly be in the sticky thread. It just gives the wrong impression though when you look at the DA3 forum. One who doesn't read the sticky would think that the posters here only cares about their characters getting it on with anyone that moves.

[Iakus]

[quote]Topsider wrote...

It's hilarious that "mature" games can have extreme violence - blood, gore, decapitations, etc - but the mere sight of tasteful nudity is frowned upon [/quote]

Who gets to decide what's tasteful?  And who says the violence in Dragon Age doesn't go over the top sometimes?  I turn persistent gore off on my games,and it still gets silly at times

[quote] I doubt anyone wants hardcore sex (well, some people would) but underwear showers and fully clothed love scenes are just silly.[/quote] Fade to black is a cop out. Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.[/quote]

Sex scenes =/= romance

Modifié par iakus, 04 avril 2013 - 01:26 .

[philippe willaume]

Surely if you can take the sight of a man or a woman being gutted, you should be able to endure the sight of Hamptom wick, Jake and Danny or bristol cities.

If I have the choice I will take nakedness when it makes sense over mail bikini, gratuitous cleavage diving and overly large belt excuse for a skirt when it does not .
I.e. when you are in a fighting outfit or moving in a cold environment, showing flesh does not makes any sense just as it does not makes sense to take a shower with your bra and pants.

Now some countries have byzantines laws about what constitute pornography, and gender are not treated equally in that respect and for me this where the problem is.

As far as sex scene , I thinks it is difficult to do "right" and how much and to what degree is "right" for a given story is really more of a personal call than anything else so it is better it is implicit.

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 04 avril 2013 - 06:59 .

[Stigweird85]

I'm not looking for a hardcore porn scene, (okay I'd watch it) but seriously a little effort and it can all be done tastefully ME got the balance mostly right(although scene could be longer) The dry humping in clothes is laughable. The shower scene is ME3 with Traynor is comedic. I can understand you entering in undies but she is taking a shower clothed. I've never been in space or in the miltary service but something tells me that isn't standard procedure.

Thankfully the violence/sex double standard is slowly changing and Game of Thrones is leading the charge on that one and I would hazard a gues sthe audience for both cross over significantlt.

As for nudity in general, sadly it is not you or I or probably Bioware/EA  that have the problem. It's people on Fox news and the ilk. It is Fox news who took deep offence at the corruption of children offered from the SeXbox(thier words not mine)

As with most things it's a few douches that spoil it for the rest of us.

---

On a side note I think a happy middle ground would be to allow easier access for modders for textures of even a texture model tool included. It isn't impossible IIRC The original Sims had a tool included on the disk to add new skins

Modifié par bigstig, 04 avril 2013 - 02:30 .

[Ridwan]

bigstig wrote...

I'm not looking for a hardcore porn scene, (okay I'd watch it) but seriously a little effort and it can all be done tastefully ME got the balance mostly right(although scene could be longer) The dry humping in clothes is laughable. The shower scene is ME3 with Traynor is comedic. I can understand you entering in undies but she is taking a shower clothed. I've never been in space or in the miltary service but something tells me that isn't standard procedure.

Thankfully the violence/sex double standard is slowly changing and Game of Thrones is leading the charge on that one and I would hazard a gues sthe audience for both cross over significantlt

What does have to do with video games? Breasts being displayed on TV isn't really uncommon.

[Stigweird85]

M25105 wrote...

What does have to do with video games? Breasts being displayed on TV isn't really uncommon.

I'm saying in general there is a double standard in games and why is it that i can shoot, Nuke, do drugs, steal cars, beat up cops, kill innocent people/ steal/ murder and generally commit mayhem without any probelms but if their is a single nipple is shown their is outrage.

[Iakus]

bigstig wrote...

M25105 wrote...

What does have to do with video games? Breasts being displayed on TV isn't really uncommon.

I'm saying in general there is a double standard in games and why is it that i can shoot, Nuke, do drugs, steal cars, beat up cops, kill innocent people/ steal/ murder and generally commit mayhem without any probelms but if their is a single nipple is shown their is outrage.

Better question would be why isn't there more outrage over the other stuff? 

[Xilizhra]

iakus wrote...

bigstig wrote...

M25105 wrote...

What does have to do with video games? Breasts being displayed on TV isn't really uncommon.

I'm saying in general there is a double standard in games and why is it that i can shoot, Nuke, do drugs, steal cars, beat up cops, kill innocent people/ steal/ murder and generally commit mayhem without any probelms but if their is a single nipple is shown their is outrage.

Better question would be why isn't there more outrage over the other stuff? 

For the same reason that Prohibition didn't work. Violent entertainment is far too old and ingrained into our culture for most people to be shocked by it.

[Iakus]

Xilizhra wrote...
For the same reason that Prohibition didn't work. Violent entertainment is far too old and ingrained into our culture for most people to be shocked by it.

Just pointing out that when people claim a double standard, they tend to side with the lower of the two

[Topsider]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]Topsider wrote...

It's hilarious that "mature" games can have extreme violence - blood, gore, decapitations, etc - but the mere sight of tasteful nudity is frowned upon [/quote]

Who gets to decide what's tasteful?  And who says the violence in Dragon Age doesn't go over the top sometimes?  I turn persistent gore off on my games,and it still gets silly at times

[quote] I doubt anyone wants hardcore sex (well, some people would) but underwear showers and fully clothed love scenes are just silly.[/quote] Fade to black is a cop out. Might as well leave the entire romance to your imagination too.[/quote]

"Sex scenes =/= romance"

[/quote]

Bioware doesn't mind "sex scenes" in romances, but they do like to avoid nudity of any kind during those scenes - even mild and innocuous. Underwear sex and showers is the result... Surely there's a better way of doing it than fading to black, without the characters looking foolish? It is the safest option though, since people take offense easily these days.

Modifié par Topsider, 04 avril 2013 - 03:11 .

[Stigweird85]

@Topsider In my view Bioware were onto a winner with ME scenes, nothing explicit(at worst a bottom)

I've raised this point on another thread but in life there is also a double standard, Women in bikini's underwear = sexist. Men being blatently idolised as a sex object(Diet Coke ads come to mind) perfectly normaly.

Same goes with Strip clubs, guy goes and it's sleazy, women goes and it's all good fun. On the flip side a guy sleeps around is a player and women does and she is a ****. It absolutely pathetic.

Strangely enough with the current with all the pressure about gun control and violent video games etc the last thing I really want is to give another weapon to do-gooders to falsely blame video games for,

[jkflipflopDAO]

The devs should just make it with nudity, then enable "prude mode" by default so it just fades to black. If you really want it, go turn it on. Really I'm looking at scenes like the shower sex and the "arm humping" in shep's cabin. Or morrigan in her white padded bra.

We get what you're saying but those scenes to me were kind of ruined by the obviously out-of-place clothing.